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Zorra

(27,670 posts)
48. If someone *KNOWS* it is wrong, then why would they rape someone?
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:38 PM
Nov 2012

Last edited Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Maybe it's more like they've been told that it is wrong, but they don't really understand and believe that it is wrong, and they rape because they simply want to, and simply hope they don't get caught.

In their minds/consciences, their crime is not the act of raping someone. To them, their only crimes are getting caught, and punished, for raping someone. Later remorse is not due to the harm that they caused to another person, but only because they are personally being harmed because they are being punished for the harm they have caused.


Although I believe that there are flaws in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, it appears to me that his theory is a fairly accurate overview of factors that comprise the developmental process of what is generally known as a "conscience". It may be that rapists are way down on this scale of "self actualization"; like toddlers, (and conservatives ~ sorry, I know I'm being bad, heehee)) they act upon unconsidered impulse rather than consideration based in a conscience based in a healthy developed ethical belief system.



It's possible that one of the reasons that some individuals who remain in the lower, tiers of this scale of self actualization is because they have not examined their thought processes with any serious and objective scrutiny, and subsequently never recognized the negative institutionalized and/or enculturated mores that comprise deeply rooted parts of their belief systems.

Institutionalized, enculturated misogyny, may also play a part in why some rapists rape women. They are told it is wrong to hate women, but many of the underlying misogynistic societal/cultural factors with which they have been imprinted in infancy and adolescence are so strongly rooted in their consciousness that they are unable to even recognize their own perception of women is as a group that is naturally inferior.

"The bible teaches that women brought sin and death into the world, that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced. Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play the role of a dependent on man's bounty for all her material wants, and for all the information she might desire... Here is the Bible position of woman briefly summed up."
--Elizabeth Cady Stanton


It is very possible that, in our society, institutionalized/enculturated misogyny is primarily the product of widespread Judeo-Christan dogma, dogma that is illustrated in the examples below. These just a few examples among a multitude of examples of Judeo-Christian dogma, (and Islamic dogma as well), that perpetrates and promotes the continued institutionalization and enculturation of misogyny and homophobia in many modern societies.

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)


"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)


"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21 )


"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)


"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)


"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


And on and on and on and on, ad nauseum.

My point, relative to your question, is that maybe we need to adopt a new perspective and approach to understanding and educating all age groups about ethics, misogyny, homophobia, racism, etc. ~ because far too many individuals are apparently not getting the idea that these things they do, and why these things they do, are ethically wrong.
"I need feminism because..." [View all] WilliamPitt Nov 2012 OP
Powerful image. forestpath Nov 2012 #1
R&K for this one. nt longship Nov 2012 #2
that says it all. very precise. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #3
Should all self-defense classes be stopped? Bonobo Nov 2012 #4
Are you that daft as to misinterpret the meaning of this young woman's message? WHOOSH! n/t demmiblue Nov 2012 #7
I understand her point, but really, is there anyone who doesn't know that rape is wrong? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #12
An awful lot of guys are not taught that No means No Hekate Nov 2012 #13
Do you think there are really a lot of men who don't know it's wrong to have sex with HiPointDem Nov 2012 #16
I see your point, but sadly, LisaLynne Nov 2012 #23
so much in society and media tell our boys this is a "mans" job. one way or another, it is all seabeyond Nov 2012 #27
It is not just rape, but violence question everything Nov 2012 #32
Rape IS violence lapislzi Nov 2012 #34
Of course it is question everything Nov 2012 #49
Oh, I totally agree. lapislzi Nov 2012 #64
i don't see dark forest Dec 2012 #113
And to highlight this point, I've just heard about the football player question everything Dec 2012 #114
i will take this a step further. my experience with two boys, girls do a lot of hitting, pushing, seabeyond Nov 2012 #35
You are correct. There is violence against men and boys question everything Nov 2012 #50
privilege over testosterone. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #56
Why femrap Nov 2012 #62
Ya know, dark forest Dec 2012 #112
yes. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #26
Actually, a lot of them don't. Deep13 Nov 2012 #14
i think most people who pressure others into doing things know it's wrong. i think most HiPointDem Nov 2012 #17
I think it is more likely that one's internal narrative... Deep13 Nov 2012 #19
everyone will *claim* they're innocent. what they know in their gut is another question. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #20
Well, that's the normal reaction. Deep13 Nov 2012 #47
we have to be clear and teach both, our boys and girls. it is a societal conditioning issue. seabeyond Nov 2012 #28
I wish I could rec your post too. KitSileya Nov 2012 #31
isnt it? this is what tells us as a culture, society, we condition. we knew it. this shows. how many seabeyond Nov 2012 #37
as with drug use, it isn't very effective at all. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #52
are you serious? bull fuckin' shit. of course it is. it is the greatest tool a parent has. seabeyond Nov 2012 #57
The 11-14 year old segment is seriously disturbing. CrispyQ Nov 2012 #41
your last sentence was right on. and that is why it is important that we say loudly, NO, there are seabeyond Nov 2012 #43
That is truly eye-opening LanternWaste Nov 2012 #92
i think you give people way to much credit noiretextatique Nov 2012 #79
i believe the definition of sociopath is that they know intellectually but don't care. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #84
i totally agree, and i will add: our culture really does a poor job noiretextatique Nov 2012 #86
i'll add that our culture is sociopathic, because it encourages people to profit by harming others. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #88
indeed noiretextatique Nov 2012 #105
Outstanding response! CrispyQ Nov 2012 #40
It's not just about the individual rapist, wickerwoman Nov 2012 #18
You said it better than I did. LisaLynne Nov 2012 #24
While I've never been to a strip club mythology Nov 2012 #78
I don't think it's the strip clubs or porn, wickerwoman Nov 2012 #95
There was a study some time ago saying 35% of college-age men... Odin2005 Nov 2012 #22
yes. too many. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #25
If someone *KNOWS* it is wrong, then why would they rape someone? Zorra Nov 2012 #48
who is this enlightened 'we' that needs to 'educate' the other? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #51
This enlightened "we" refers to those of us who don't want to be raped, and who don't want anyone Zorra Nov 2012 #81
You are femrap Nov 2012 #61
well, so are you, then. happy holidays! HiPointDem Nov 2012 #63
yes, he is. n/t Whisp Nov 2012 #103
Not instead of, in addition to. nolabear Nov 2012 #8
I know femrap Nov 2012 #60
Why precisely does the one deny the other? LanternWaste Nov 2012 #90
halle freakin lujah! liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #5
lots of good ones here too LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #6
The fact that the students are 60% female influences their choice of message. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #9
then what would be the reason when the number was much lower. it has ALWAYS been, how to prevent seabeyond Nov 2012 #29
I don't think rapists rape because they forgot, or that no one ever told them, that it is wrong. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #30
where you are being obtuse is society conditioning both genders about behaviors that allow rape, seabeyond Nov 2012 #38
our society programs our men to think they have to be aggresive liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #42
and now we have an effectively fun movement spreading the word that 45-75% of rape claims are false. seabeyond Nov 2012 #44
exactly liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #45
It's the seeking to DOMINATE...whatever the psychological background that KoKo Nov 2012 #72
Actually, you're wrong. ChaoticTrilby Nov 2012 #94
Not when I was going to school in the 80s AngryAmish Nov 2012 #55
So what? nt sufrommich Nov 2012 #54
Jeezuz. Talk about out of touch. bluerum Nov 2012 #10
K&R DeSwiss Nov 2012 #11
DURec x2 vancouverite Nov 2012 #15
K&R, saw this on FB Odin2005 Nov 2012 #21
k&r. CrispyQ Nov 2012 #33
K&R Solly Mack Nov 2012 #36
Wow. Succinct, and poignant. Zorra Nov 2012 #39
Does this only apply to legitimate rapes? Deep13 Nov 2012 #46
point. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #58
oh oh oh, and the MRA dude that says feminist are taking all the fun out of dating.... seabeyond Nov 2012 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author sally5050 Nov 2012 #53
THis is not an "either/or" thing. dorkulon Nov 2012 #65
+1000 AlexSatan Nov 2012 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #66
Y'know... WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #67
Continually dealing with this shit is exhausting. It truly is. n/t MadrasT Nov 2012 #74
This really hits home for me hack89 Nov 2012 #69
my daughter will be a college freshman next year liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #73
This is what is wrong with our society. aandegoons Nov 2012 #70
Misguided regjoe Nov 2012 #71
*sigh* WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #75
A nice shot of pepper spray also does wonders for mellowing someone out. Dash87 Nov 2012 #91
Sigh regjoe Nov 2012 #96
OMG... "Men are pigs." "You can't teach a rapist "don't rape," seabeyond Nov 2012 #76
"Men are pigs" is not a denial of ownership over their behavior. regjoe Nov 2012 #97
i do not agree that the majority of men are pigs. that is the argument. i have only men and boys seabeyond Nov 2012 #99
"Men are pigs." Way to paint with a broad brush. white_wolf Nov 2012 #77
i agree white wolf and thank you for speaking loud and clear. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #80
+1 ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #87
We are pigs regjoe Nov 2012 #98
then i guess you will have to just say, women are pigs. do you know, womens thoughts seabeyond Nov 2012 #100
No you know how you think not how I or other men I know think. white_wolf Nov 2012 #104
Come on. All men are not pigs. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2012 #83
It's a minority of men who rape gollygee Nov 2012 #85
Well, it's a small sign LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #93
I get told I am one any time I do something applegrove Nov 2012 #82
No one ever told me that it was not ok to rape someone. MrSlayer Nov 2012 #89
My nieces deserve a full life get the red out Nov 2012 #101
I'd go one step further than teaching "how to avoid getting raped". no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #102
I know you mean well... FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #106
I'm sorry for your ordeal. no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #110
Peace to us both FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #111
my freshman yr in college over 20 yrs ago included the dont get raped talk nadine_mn Nov 2012 #107
Like telling your child "don't talk to strangers" LittleBlue Nov 2012 #108
There's nothing essentially wrong with that, except FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #109
Recommended. Heidi Dec 2012 #115
... assumes all the rapists are students JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #116
Derp WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #117
Maybe on an isolated or gated campus JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #118
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