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Zorra

(27,670 posts)
81. This enlightened "we" refers to those of us who don't want to be raped, and who don't want anyone
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:34 PM
Nov 2012

else to be raped.

I suppose it is possible that some people are born with an intuitive ability to distinguish and understand right from wrong, if that is what "gut knowing" is, without ever have been taught anything about what is right or wrong; but I suspect this is pretty rare, and that basic "gut knowing" is actually a product of enculturation, or socialization ~ the adoption of the behavior patterns of the surrounding culture.

I believe that ethics are primarily learned principles, and that the evolution of conscience in the self begins at a very early age, and is developed through understanding.

Some people grow and evolve to the point where they self-actualize, and don't deliberately cause harm, because their consciousness/conscience understands that it is wrong to deliberately cause harm. In other words, they would not steal a billion dollars from someone even if they knew for sure that they would definitely never get caught or punished for doing so.

In contrast, some people may not deliberately harm simply because of fear that they will be punished for doing so. In other words they would happily steal $10 from someone if they knew they would never be caught or punished.

(I'm sorry, part of the work that I do part time nowadays is applied behavioral analysis and therapy. It is my job to figure out the motivations behind people's behavior, and how to help them have a better quality of life by showing them pathways to more socially appropriate, self rewarding behaviors, most often by using positive reinforcement, so I get a bit wordy sometimes when discussing human behavior. OK, wordy most of the time when I discuss human behavior. OK...all the time.)

Anyway, I believe that educating people from a very early age to help them understand ethics so that as many people as possible can more easily evolve a genuine sense of ethics, develop a self-actualized conscience, and therefore become happy individuals with a sense that they have a satisfying quality of life, is just as important, actually much more important, than teaching them basic math.

In other words, actually helping little Suzy realistically understand and process why something is right or wrong, rather than just telling her that something is right or wrong, or telling her that something is right or wrong simply because "God" says so, and that she is going to go to hell if she does not do what "God" wants her to do.

"I need feminism because..." [View all] WilliamPitt Nov 2012 OP
Powerful image. forestpath Nov 2012 #1
R&K for this one. nt longship Nov 2012 #2
that says it all. very precise. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #3
Should all self-defense classes be stopped? Bonobo Nov 2012 #4
Are you that daft as to misinterpret the meaning of this young woman's message? WHOOSH! n/t demmiblue Nov 2012 #7
I understand her point, but really, is there anyone who doesn't know that rape is wrong? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #12
An awful lot of guys are not taught that No means No Hekate Nov 2012 #13
Do you think there are really a lot of men who don't know it's wrong to have sex with HiPointDem Nov 2012 #16
I see your point, but sadly, LisaLynne Nov 2012 #23
so much in society and media tell our boys this is a "mans" job. one way or another, it is all seabeyond Nov 2012 #27
It is not just rape, but violence question everything Nov 2012 #32
Rape IS violence lapislzi Nov 2012 #34
Of course it is question everything Nov 2012 #49
Oh, I totally agree. lapislzi Nov 2012 #64
i don't see dark forest Dec 2012 #113
And to highlight this point, I've just heard about the football player question everything Dec 2012 #114
i will take this a step further. my experience with two boys, girls do a lot of hitting, pushing, seabeyond Nov 2012 #35
You are correct. There is violence against men and boys question everything Nov 2012 #50
privilege over testosterone. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #56
Why femrap Nov 2012 #62
Ya know, dark forest Dec 2012 #112
yes. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #26
Actually, a lot of them don't. Deep13 Nov 2012 #14
i think most people who pressure others into doing things know it's wrong. i think most HiPointDem Nov 2012 #17
I think it is more likely that one's internal narrative... Deep13 Nov 2012 #19
everyone will *claim* they're innocent. what they know in their gut is another question. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #20
Well, that's the normal reaction. Deep13 Nov 2012 #47
we have to be clear and teach both, our boys and girls. it is a societal conditioning issue. seabeyond Nov 2012 #28
I wish I could rec your post too. KitSileya Nov 2012 #31
isnt it? this is what tells us as a culture, society, we condition. we knew it. this shows. how many seabeyond Nov 2012 #37
as with drug use, it isn't very effective at all. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #52
are you serious? bull fuckin' shit. of course it is. it is the greatest tool a parent has. seabeyond Nov 2012 #57
The 11-14 year old segment is seriously disturbing. CrispyQ Nov 2012 #41
your last sentence was right on. and that is why it is important that we say loudly, NO, there are seabeyond Nov 2012 #43
That is truly eye-opening LanternWaste Nov 2012 #92
i think you give people way to much credit noiretextatique Nov 2012 #79
i believe the definition of sociopath is that they know intellectually but don't care. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #84
i totally agree, and i will add: our culture really does a poor job noiretextatique Nov 2012 #86
i'll add that our culture is sociopathic, because it encourages people to profit by harming others. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #88
indeed noiretextatique Nov 2012 #105
Outstanding response! CrispyQ Nov 2012 #40
It's not just about the individual rapist, wickerwoman Nov 2012 #18
You said it better than I did. LisaLynne Nov 2012 #24
While I've never been to a strip club mythology Nov 2012 #78
I don't think it's the strip clubs or porn, wickerwoman Nov 2012 #95
There was a study some time ago saying 35% of college-age men... Odin2005 Nov 2012 #22
yes. too many. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #25
If someone *KNOWS* it is wrong, then why would they rape someone? Zorra Nov 2012 #48
who is this enlightened 'we' that needs to 'educate' the other? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #51
This enlightened "we" refers to those of us who don't want to be raped, and who don't want anyone Zorra Nov 2012 #81
You are femrap Nov 2012 #61
well, so are you, then. happy holidays! HiPointDem Nov 2012 #63
yes, he is. n/t Whisp Nov 2012 #103
Not instead of, in addition to. nolabear Nov 2012 #8
I know femrap Nov 2012 #60
Why precisely does the one deny the other? LanternWaste Nov 2012 #90
halle freakin lujah! liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #5
lots of good ones here too LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #6
The fact that the students are 60% female influences their choice of message. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #9
then what would be the reason when the number was much lower. it has ALWAYS been, how to prevent seabeyond Nov 2012 #29
I don't think rapists rape because they forgot, or that no one ever told them, that it is wrong. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #30
where you are being obtuse is society conditioning both genders about behaviors that allow rape, seabeyond Nov 2012 #38
our society programs our men to think they have to be aggresive liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #42
and now we have an effectively fun movement spreading the word that 45-75% of rape claims are false. seabeyond Nov 2012 #44
exactly liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #45
It's the seeking to DOMINATE...whatever the psychological background that KoKo Nov 2012 #72
Actually, you're wrong. ChaoticTrilby Nov 2012 #94
Not when I was going to school in the 80s AngryAmish Nov 2012 #55
So what? nt sufrommich Nov 2012 #54
Jeezuz. Talk about out of touch. bluerum Nov 2012 #10
K&R DeSwiss Nov 2012 #11
DURec x2 vancouverite Nov 2012 #15
K&R, saw this on FB Odin2005 Nov 2012 #21
k&r. CrispyQ Nov 2012 #33
K&R Solly Mack Nov 2012 #36
Wow. Succinct, and poignant. Zorra Nov 2012 #39
Does this only apply to legitimate rapes? Deep13 Nov 2012 #46
point. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #58
oh oh oh, and the MRA dude that says feminist are taking all the fun out of dating.... seabeyond Nov 2012 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author sally5050 Nov 2012 #53
THis is not an "either/or" thing. dorkulon Nov 2012 #65
+1000 AlexSatan Nov 2012 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #66
Y'know... WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #67
Continually dealing with this shit is exhausting. It truly is. n/t MadrasT Nov 2012 #74
This really hits home for me hack89 Nov 2012 #69
my daughter will be a college freshman next year liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #73
This is what is wrong with our society. aandegoons Nov 2012 #70
Misguided regjoe Nov 2012 #71
*sigh* WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #75
A nice shot of pepper spray also does wonders for mellowing someone out. Dash87 Nov 2012 #91
Sigh regjoe Nov 2012 #96
OMG... "Men are pigs." "You can't teach a rapist "don't rape," seabeyond Nov 2012 #76
"Men are pigs" is not a denial of ownership over their behavior. regjoe Nov 2012 #97
i do not agree that the majority of men are pigs. that is the argument. i have only men and boys seabeyond Nov 2012 #99
"Men are pigs." Way to paint with a broad brush. white_wolf Nov 2012 #77
i agree white wolf and thank you for speaking loud and clear. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #80
+1 ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #87
We are pigs regjoe Nov 2012 #98
then i guess you will have to just say, women are pigs. do you know, womens thoughts seabeyond Nov 2012 #100
No you know how you think not how I or other men I know think. white_wolf Nov 2012 #104
Come on. All men are not pigs. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2012 #83
It's a minority of men who rape gollygee Nov 2012 #85
Well, it's a small sign LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #93
I get told I am one any time I do something applegrove Nov 2012 #82
No one ever told me that it was not ok to rape someone. MrSlayer Nov 2012 #89
My nieces deserve a full life get the red out Nov 2012 #101
I'd go one step further than teaching "how to avoid getting raped". no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #102
I know you mean well... FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #106
I'm sorry for your ordeal. no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #110
Peace to us both FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #111
my freshman yr in college over 20 yrs ago included the dont get raped talk nadine_mn Nov 2012 #107
Like telling your child "don't talk to strangers" LittleBlue Nov 2012 #108
There's nothing essentially wrong with that, except FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #109
Recommended. Heidi Dec 2012 #115
... assumes all the rapists are students JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #116
Derp WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #117
Maybe on an isolated or gated campus JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #118
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