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haele

(15,373 posts)
15. Marley's Ghosts is a very good description of where we are now -
Sun Mar 16, 2025, 01:30 PM
Mar 2025

Last edited Sun Mar 16, 2025, 03:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Our immigrant parents and grandparents came to this country pretty much due only to Want. Want of opportunities, of an open land.

For a while, this country were able to address that.
And we became complacent.

We have a big, huge, problem that neither the Christian Nationalists or the Tech Bros who want to rule the Corporate States of America realize.

We (the Societal "We" ) have let our children become Ignorant.
We don't make very much any more. We are a service economy.
Our children assume the basics will always be available to them, the stores will always be open and energy to power their devices will always be available.


Where do your basic items come from? Who makes your clothes, your shoes, your medicines; ready-made foods, flavored drinks, furniture, paper items, glass items, metal items, plastics...?
The tools, and more importantly, the knowledge for basic manufacturing, farming, and home economics has pretty much been lost to all but a few history buffs or experimental archeologists.

With millions of people - especially the wealthy - dependant on imports and shipping for just the basics, what happens now that we are becoming untrustworthy, our currency devalued, and isolated?
When we kick out immigrants and ridicule the "educated elites" with all that soft, woke knowledge of liberal arts, especially as practical economics, education, history, and philosophy?
What happens when the power shuts off and the stores close?
What are we going to do when society collapses?
Corporate Farmers can't just suddenly switch from the exportables (and sterile) mono crops, bio-fuel, and feed grains they've been growing for decades to enough eatable grains, vegetables, and fruits to feed hundreds of millions of people in this country, especially since we have a serious food waste problem to begin with.
We don't have enough small parts, fabric manufacturing to quickly tool up to make cloth, ceramics or plastics, various types of containers; just the basic "nuts and bolts" to keep us as a society going and comfortable. We've been exporting all that manufacturing out since we went to a supply side economy in the 1980's...
Americans are Ignorant when it comes to being able to survive in isolation.

All these wanna-be dictators in their Pride think their wealth in dollars or iterative techno-babble coding will mean anything to the rest of World, who have learned the hard way how diversity and cooperation leads to breakthroughs in science and technology, and how regulation to maintain a level playing field and availability of resources insures innovation.

To all you "Dark Enlightenment" Tech Bros - as it stands now, AI and Robotics might be able to make some lives easier, but it can't feed, clothe, or sustain your life any more than your favorite Video game can.
Technology is "not there" yet, and won't be unless some major philosophical and technological walls are broken, instead of just taking clever coding shortcuts and leveraging on Moore's Law.
At this point, to fully replace humans in any particular field is still only at the equivalent point of asking a 4 year old to go out and get a job.

To all you Theocrats and Supremacists - how long does an isolationist plantation economy - because that's what you're proposing actually last before it falls apart?
History informs that Autocracies, Oligarchies, or Theocracies (plantation economies of very wealthy ruling over a captive work class) can't last much past three or four generations without expanding through breaking up or revolution - and if they do expand, they become diluted; any hard held beliefs or connections to the leadership behind the founding "Government" organizational philosophy becomes individually tribalistic and perverted from the original.
Example - history shows how both Christian and Islamic beliefs split and became embattled when religion forced it's way into a local governance just within generations.
If Autocratic type societies don't expand, they become stagnant, miserable slums that fall into a zero sum anarchy as the strongest figureheads try to force themselves into ascendancy.
They all die off, one way or another. Some sooner, some later.

Isolated Autocratic governance or "plantation economies" can't survive without becoming benevolent or cooperative societies, but that's one thing Theocrats and Nationalists that rule with iron boots can't allow.
Autocrats require four social conditions to hold on to power - Pride, Ignorance, Fear and Want.
They need to maintain Marley's Ghosts. And they refuse to heed the warnings that come with those Ghosts that will always lead to their downfall.

And so ends my online essay.

Recommendations

6 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

We didn't listen to Marley's Ghost Uncle Joe Mar 2025 #1
Yes. They are changing out the machinery, literally and figuratively, of our Wingus Dingus Mar 2025 #2
Sadly, I think you could be quite correct, Wingus. Irish_Dem Mar 2025 #9
Between this post of yours and that of wingus_dingus, I think you've laid it out too well. erronis Mar 2025 #19
They have zero reason to turn back. Irish_Dem Mar 2025 #22
Good analysis by all...... DENVERPOPS Mar 2025 #43
Yes. Irish_Dem Mar 2025 #44
All of the UBER rich and politicians DENVERPOPS Mar 2025 #45
IDK how it turned out. Irish_Dem Mar 2025 #46
The only thing DENVERPOPS Mar 2025 #50
Yes does suggest the Vets are mostly Trumpers. Irish_Dem Mar 2025 #51
Eloquently framed ID, athough nothing eloquent in the reality. yellow dahlia Mar 2025 #47
I know, where are the CIA, M16, military intel, etc? Irish_Dem Mar 2025 #49
Musk's coders are not just identifying women and minorities to fire, they're rewriting the code for government systems. Lonestarblue Mar 2025 #16
It's really hard pattyloutwo Mar 2025 #58
It's VERY hard. I lean closer to fleeing to Canada, at least to start. At least until my Maru Kitteh Mar 2025 #63
1) Yes, 2) Only a fall if one assumes things, 3) Presumes such a fall would be bad, 4) The final pivot out might be cool Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2025 #3
Well said. A glimmer of hope long-term for an extended period of misery. erronis Mar 2025 #21
It is possible that things just have to get bad enough MadameButterfly Mar 2025 #65
Of course mimitabby Mar 2025 #4
Governments are always for the ruling classes that set them up. bucolic_frolic Mar 2025 #5
It wasn't so quick. Grumpy Old Guy Mar 2025 #6
Maybe, but when we elected Pres. Obama I thought we had turned the corner groundloop Mar 2025 #10
I felt that way too when Obama was elected. Grumpy Old Guy Mar 2025 #18
Unfortunately, Obama's elections were the straw that broke the proverbial back. erronis Mar 2025 #24
That turned out to be a false hope, didn't it. After Obama we've gotten Trump twice. elocs Mar 2025 #57
Yes, yes, yes EverHopeful Mar 2025 #12
The last 2 months has been the culmination of the previous decades. n/t elocs Mar 2025 #32
I don't think maga is actually "miserable", ... yet. But they will turn on Muck first then tRump. Won't be pretty Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2025 #52
And this is going to happen as you say, just wait for the other shoe to drop. And MAGAs haven't seen anything yet. SWBTATTReg Mar 2025 #60
The build up to our fall from a democracy may have taken years, decades, elocs Mar 2025 #29
Excellent summation of key points along the path. Big Blue Marble Mar 2025 #64
It's not the fall of the American Empire oldmanlynn Mar 2025 #7
Why would I want to continue 'the American Empire'? Voltaire2 Mar 2025 #8
Empires usually don't believe they will fall even when the evidence is in front of them. elocs Mar 2025 #34
Fuck empires. I'm just fine with our shitty empire falling apart. Voltaire2 Mar 2025 #11
not everyone appreciates this. barbtries Mar 2025 #13
My 82-year-old husband is in DC at a veterans' protest at the Heritage Foundation. raging moderate Mar 2025 #23
I marched in Raleigh barbtries Mar 2025 #39
You said " But I did not know it would be illegal to post the news in the DU Lounge, so that ended that." notinkansas Mar 2025 #41
I made a joke in the Lounge but it was locked for being political. I thought it was too lightweight for GenDisc Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2025 #54
OK. Thanks for the clarification. notinkansas Mar 2025 #55
We're between a rock & a hard place because filling the streets may ultimately bring elocs Mar 2025 #35
At my age, I will never see the recouping of Democracy as I knew it. 634-5789 Mar 2025 #14
Yeah, I'm 72 and I feel the same. I think we took our democracy too much for granted. n/t elocs Mar 2025 #36
Marley's Ghosts is a very good description of where we are now - haele Mar 2025 #15
America First! becomes America Only! becomes America Alone become America Lonely. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2025 #17
Very well said! It could be called "Unintended Consequences" but perhaps this destruction is actually erronis Mar 2025 #25
Complacent. Exactly. As Democrats, too many of us have become complacent. elocs Mar 2025 #42
We had all seen evil from a distance... Escape Mar 2025 #20
Yup SheltieLover Mar 2025 #26
Not the fall of the American empire, but the end of the American Century andym Mar 2025 #27
We built an empire after WWII. Voltaire2 Mar 2025 #30
No we didn't-- we did not have tribuatory states andym Mar 2025 #33
Quibble with words, but it ends up being the same thing. elocs Mar 2025 #66
Actually the difference is that Trump is trying to build a new American empire: by adding Greenland, Canada etc andym Mar 2025 #67
Uh, Yeah! I was born to be here now. calikid Mar 2025 #28
You are not alone. Voltaire2 Mar 2025 #31
It will go down in history as... S/V Loner Mar 2025 #37
Embracing Reality Is The 'Hopeful' Path... Reality Is The Reasoned Path Forward... MayReasonRule Mar 2025 #38
Yup, we're never going to be the same country again. But, maybe, if we survive the Rancid Menace Joinfortmill Mar 2025 #40
I'm going to start carrying raw sunflower seeds. haele Mar 2025 #48
The whole world will mourn. A European told me that they liked that America Demovictory9 Mar 2025 #53
Thank you, and everyone else, for your thoughtful posts Wild blueberry Mar 2025 #56
Hope springs eternal and comes from faith in yourself and others wintemark Mar 2025 #59
We need to look toward Europe to uphold democratic governance... AntiFascist Mar 2025 #61
American democracy died on 12/12/00 GoreWon2000 Mar 2025 #62
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