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PJMcK

(24,635 posts)
Mon May 19, 2025, 10:01 AM May 2025

Regarding the Mexican ship accident [View all]

The accident over the weekend involving the Cuauhtémoc was tragic and had many elements that caused the crash. Here are my thoughts based on decades of recreational boating in New York’s waterways.

The current in the East River can exceed 5 knots (6-7 mph). For many vessels, this makes the "river" very difficult to navigate as the strong currents rush through an extremely narrow and winding channel about ten miles long between Hell Gate in the north to the Battery in the south. In olden times, there were many capsizes and deaths along the East River because the channel is so dangerous.

Likewise, the Hudson River has strong tidal currents that alternate four times a day, like the East River. Although not as fierce as the East River, the Hudson can flow upwards of 4 knots making it difficult to navigate against the current.

Motor vessels with sufficient power can sail against these currents but the powerful force of the water must still be taken into account by an experienced navigator. Sailing vessels, for the most part, must time their transits of these waters to maneuver with the tidal currents in order to maintain steerage, that is, the ability to control and handle the vessel.

I've traversed both rivers numerous times and I've almost always carefully planned the passages by consulting the tidal and current charts found in the annual publication Eldridge which shows the times of the tide changes as well as the expected currents throughout the tidal cycles. There are also several excellent electronic navigation devices that provide this information in real time. In spite of this planning, there are still difficulties, especially in the East River. For example, just north of the Queensboro Bridge at 59th Street, there are consistent standing waves of 2-4 feet during both the Flood Tide and the Ebb Tide that bounce boats around as they pass the area.

My sailboat has a Diesel inboard and it will power the boat with full throttle at just over 5 knots. I will never go against the East River current and on those occasions I've sailed against the Hudson's current it resulted in very slow passages. After all, if the current is 4 knots and I'm making 5 knots through the water, I'm only going 1 knot over the ground! This is almost the minimum speed to maintain steerage on my boat.

From the videos and accounts I've seen of the accident involving the Mexican vessel, the Cuauhtémoc, it appears that they undocked from Pier 17 and a tug boat was pushing the ship's bow to face south to head to the Atlantic Ocean. Apparently, the ship lost engine power (a 1,125 hp auxiliary engine) and the current (and wind) began pushing the ship north meaning that the ship was going backwards. This all happened so fast over such a short distance, less than a half-mile, that without functioning engine power, the ship didn't have a chance.

My only humble observation is that the ship might have timed its departure during the outgoing tide so it wouldn't be fighting the northwards current but would be pushed south towards the ocean. I wasn't there so I have no criticisms of the captain or the crew.

One commentator suggested that the tug could have saved the ship from the tragedy, This is a profoundly ignorant observation. Consider that the Cuauhtémoc is 300-feet long displacing 1,800 tons. A single tug, without control or tow lines connecting the two vessels, could never push the ship out of danger. It would take a coordinated effort by 2 or 3 tugs to properly escort the ship to safety.

This tragedy is very sad. Two sailors lost their lives. Many were injured, some severely. A beautiful sailing vessel was massively damaged with repairs probably in the millions. The ship's goodwill mission has ended. I'm curious where they will tow the ship for repairs as I'm unaware of a shipyard in the area that could handle it, (I'm sure there is a yard but I don't know where it might be).

This was a horrible accident and the investigations will provide more detailed information. It's a very sad event.

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Great analysis. cachukis May 2025 #1
Thanks for your reply but there's something I learned after I posted PJMcK May 2025 #33
Sailed down from North Shore into East River in 70's. cachukis May 2025 #38
Thank you for the detailed description... 2naSalit May 2025 #2
That's super interesting stuff there Friend! Ligyron May 2025 #3
Thank you for this valuable information. Just looking at the image, I could niyad May 2025 #4
Bottom line is that the masts were simply too high to pass under the bridge. MineralMan May 2025 #5
It was supposed to head south IbogaProject May 2025 #12
Thanks for your reply, MM PJMcK May 2025 #26
Thanks for a knowledgeable, cogent analysis ms liberty May 2025 #6
Thanks for the analysis. I wondered why a ship that was obviously to tall for the bridge was going under it. patphil May 2025 #7
Thank you malaise May 2025 #8
Thanks for info, PJ. elleng May 2025 #9
The ship inexplicably lost power Ponietz May 2025 #10
The G.O.P. in charge of communications is proving itself incompetent beyond words BoRaGard May 2025 #18
Basic seamanship BeneteauBum May 2025 #11
Not quite accurate RoseTrellis May 2025 #13
Propulsion issue make sense. adnoid May 2025 #16
Thank you for this BumRushDaShow May 2025 #19
Interesting points PJMcK May 2025 #21
Navigation RoseTrellis May 2025 #43
A sextant! PJMcK May 2025 #47
Thanks for the very informative and interesting analysis. I've done a lot of sailing, so it meant a lot of sense to me. Martin68 May 2025 #14
The Pacific! PJMcK May 2025 #22
Thanks! The Pacific can be challenging, and requires a larger vessel in the huge rollers that distant storms generate. Martin68 May 2025 #48
One question is not answered in anything I read. did the ship send out an emergency signal once Wonder Why May 2025 #15
Good question PJMcK May 2025 #23
Yeah, that IS good question. calimary May 2025 #45
I remember when the Coast Guard training ship "Eagle" had a run-in with some inadvertently hung bridge safety netting. usonian May 2025 #17
I remember that episode PJMcK May 2025 #24
Thank you for this extremely educational post! colorado_ufo May 2025 #20
Your welcome! PJMcK May 2025 #25
A very clear explanation. Thanks. Norrrm May 2025 #27
You're welcome! PJMcK May 2025 #29
The East River is no joke to navigate. And this situation is so tragic. Scrivener7 May 2025 #28
I used to jog along the East River PJMcK May 2025 #30
We hit Hell Gate an hour later than planned once. Scrivener7 May 2025 #39
Mother Nature allows us to live on her planet. We follow her rules. nt Buns_of_Fire May 2025 #31
And if you don't listen to Mother... PJMcK May 2025 #35
Thanks for the information! viva la May 2025 #32
You are very kind with your response PJMcK May 2025 #34
I really appreciate your info viva la May 2025 #41
K&R spanone May 2025 #36
Having spent a few weeks crewing a much smaller tall ship over the years, Emrys May 2025 #37
Thank you for your rational and experiential explanation... Wounded Bear May 2025 #40
There is a yard at Sparrows Point , just east of Baltimore, that has . . . Stinky The Clown May 2025 #42
What I read last night was that the Rudder was Stuck electric_blue68 May 2025 #44
Thank you for your post. Have wondered about the technicalities of that tragic allegorical oracle May 2025 #46
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