General Discussion

yardwork

(69,365 posts)

56. Both nations are guilty.

Sat Aug 9, 2025, 12:11 PM

Aug 2025

Both nations are home to citizens who are cruel, stupid, and bloodthirsty. Both nations have elected governments at this moment who are evil and are committing atrocities.

But, both nations also have citizens who disagree with their elected leaders' actions. Both nations are democracies with constitutions. Both nations deserve to exist.

Israelis are no more inherently evil than Americans.

That's all I'm asking DUers to think about. Not excusing anything.

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Bettie

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Nation that always cries it is a victim. Readies its army to expand mission creep. [View all] Duncanpup Aug 2025 OP

"Try and stop me before I kill again." IDF motto. marble falls Aug 2025 #1

$40 billion a year in taxpayer money sent to Israel. Duncanpup Aug 2025 #2

Not including the millions sent in donations from individuals. marble falls Aug 2025 #3

Seriously. It's akin to "Southie" privately funding the IRA. paleotn Aug 2025 #16

Worse. Compare AIPAC which plays in US and Israeli politics and NORAID which purely bought arms, quite unsuccessfully .. marble falls Aug 2025 #111

Amen! paleotn Aug 2025 #14

Now, they appear to be a full-blown Soviet influenced Jewish state maxrandb Aug 2025 #32

And they have Universal Health Care Quanta Aug 2025 #26

The U.S. doesn't pay for Israelis' health care. yardwork Aug 2025 #33

What we give them frees up the money for the universal health care Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #54

That's simply incorrect. yardwork Aug 2025 #59

Not a falsehood Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #71

That is ridiculous from a total dollar stand point, but paleotn Aug 2025 #55

It's too bad we elected Trump, for those and many other reasons. yardwork Aug 2025 #61

Netanyahu knew Trump was in. Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #72

"We provide military aid, and not that much." PufPuf23 Aug 2025 #104

US aid to Israel was equivalent to $1,400 for every Israeli man, woman and child in 2024. David__77 Aug 2025 #110

That country loves playing victim. It never ends. writerJT Aug 2025 #4

Post removed Post removed Aug 2025 #5

They are getting ready to Bettie Aug 2025 #6

One of tsf's moron sons said that part out loud 6+ months ago. rubbersole Aug 2025 #8

Kushner's ready. KPN Aug 2025 #25

This is probably all Hamas' fault or something Orrex Aug 2025 #7

Not defending what Israel is doing in Gaza, but they have been attacked repeatedly EdmondDantes_ Aug 2025 #9

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. yardwork Aug 2025 #10

Diisappointing to see people condoning wholesale genocide and ethnic cleansing by bibi for profit. lark Aug 2025 #13

I haven't seen any of that here, but I don't see all posts. yardwork Aug 2025 #17

"Demonize Israel as an entire nation"???? maxrandb Aug 2025 #39

Israelis have more reason to vote for an authoritarian than we do. yardwork Aug 2025 #40

I genuinely hear you, feel for you, and understand where you're coming from even if I don't agree. vanessa_ca Aug 2025 #49

Yes, it would be acceptable to criticize Israeli leaders. yardwork Aug 2025 #51

I appreciate this clarification. ShazzieB Aug 2025 #75

Exactly. And btw I'm not Jewish. yardwork Aug 2025 #77

It makes it impossible to have a real discussion about JI7 Aug 2025 #19

I've read at least four books, three of them by Jewish writers, on Israel's history and founding. Lonestarblue Aug 2025 #23

And there are many other books that give a more nuanced history. yardwork Aug 2025 #34

Absolutely Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #78

It isn't ignorance sarisataka Aug 2025 #64

It's a mix. yardwork Aug 2025 #68

Pretending that justifies murder of an entire people is also ignoring history and humanity. lark Aug 2025 #11

I haven't seen anyone say it justifies murder of an entire people. yardwork Aug 2025 #18

Not directly, but saying destroying Gaza & it's people is ok - and ignoring the reality is really the same thing, IMO. lark Aug 2025 #20

I haven't seen anyone on DU say that. yardwork Aug 2025 #21

that's pretty much what the WHATABOUTISM is all about Skittles Aug 2025 #102

Serious question, did you somehow not see the part where I said I'm not defending that? EdmondDantes_ Aug 2025 #30

I think that's a fair statement. 70sEraVet Aug 2025 #12

It is their purpose to change us to a vicious undemocratic country & they start from the top. lark Aug 2025 #15

I think that saying our history "was uneven" misrepresents how bad we've been. yardwork Aug 2025 #22

It's a toughie. malthaussen Aug 2025 #24

I think the US did far worse in Iraq and Afghanistan alone. yardwork Aug 2025 #27

And you can't erase Israel's guilt by pointing out the faults of the US. CivicGrief Aug 2025 #53

Both nations are guilty. yardwork Aug 2025 #56

I would assume that most of us here Bettie Aug 2025 #96

It's not whataboutism. I condemn Israel's actions. yardwork Aug 2025 #97

I haven't seen *any* posts on here making broad brush attacks on Jewish people. Crunchy Frog Aug 2025 #113

Yeah, I was being nice for a change. lol lark Aug 2025 #31

Maybe be a little nicer to Jewish people? yardwork Aug 2025 #35

I don't whitewash AAmerican atrocities, but the worst was 100's of years ago. lark Aug 2025 #43

I'm afraid that's simply not true. yardwork Aug 2025 #48

Like you've said MorbidButterflyTat Aug 2025 #92

Irgun started it all w a truck bomb on the 40s IbogaProject Aug 2025 #29

It did not start in the 1940s. yardwork Aug 2025 #36

OK 1930's IbogaProject Aug 2025 #47

Jews owned 6% of land in 1947. AloeVera Aug 2025 #95

Hold on! Israel begun invading other countries for expansion within decades of being GIVEN ( yes GIVEN) their own Exp Aug 2025 #45

Also not understanding why there is violence is also moniss Aug 2025 #46

Thanks for all your insight and knowledge. Great analysis. AloeVera Aug 2025 #90

You completely missed the point of my response in the context of this thread EdmondDantes_ Aug 2025 #105

It's hardly missing the point and I stand by everything I said and I would moniss Aug 2025 #106

Just forget and look over Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #69

Post removed Post removed Aug 2025 #28

Why not? We do it all the time. yardwork Aug 2025 #37

Huh, What? Can you be more specific? I mean, you need to be more specific! Bombing Iraq was obviously wrong, but that Exp Aug 2025 #44

The U.S. killed and tortured millions in Iraq and Afghanistan. yardwork Aug 2025 #50

Are you condemning both genocides? writerJT Aug 2025 #58

I condemn every genocide. yardwork Aug 2025 #60

That is consistent. writerJT Aug 2025 #62

If you're talking about Jewish hypocrisy be sure to include us, too. yardwork Aug 2025 #67

Is this how you approach every issue? writerJT Aug 2025 #79

Yes, I'm on a mission to point out an unfair double standard. yardwork Aug 2025 #86

Selective double standard. writerJT Aug 2025 #87

the WHATABOUTISM is absolutely rampant with I/P Skittles Aug 2025 #112

"Tortured millions".. I don't think so. Exp Aug 2025 #65

Killed and tortured millions. yardwork Aug 2025 #66

Not true. High estimate is just over ONE million dead, low est. is 150k dead. That is not millions. Exp Aug 2025 #70

And it wasn't GENOCIDE as Israel is committing in Gaza and West Bank. Not even close. Exp Aug 2025 #73

"Bomb them back to the Stone Age." yardwork Aug 2025 #76

You've abandoned numbers writerJT Aug 2025 #81

I haven't abandoned anything. yardwork Aug 2025 #82

But writerJT Aug 2025 #85

This post makes no sense to me. yardwork Aug 2025 #89

LOL writerJT Aug 2025 #94

Israel is an apartheid nation based on 20th and 21st century colonialism. Uncle Joe Aug 2025 #38

Media from country with largest military in history of world whines about another countries forces. nt LexVegas Aug 2025 #41

And pretends to be purer than the driven snow. yardwork Aug 2025 #52

Post removed Post removed Aug 2025 #42

DURec leftstreet Aug 2025 #57

Patriots like to talk about dying for their country but never about killing for their country. Ping Tung Aug 2025 #63

Heaven knows that nation has never been attacked without justification sarisataka Aug 2025 #74

See post #46 for a very thoughtful and nuanced retort to such oversimplification. AloeVera Aug 2025 #88

I can agree it is more nuanced than most sarisataka Aug 2025 #93

The exact opposite is true. AloeVera Aug 2025 #107

Since you incorrectly assumed my side, everything that follows is not applicable sarisataka Aug 2025 #109

Whoever fights monsters Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #80

I believe that our crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan are being visited against us. yardwork Aug 2025 #83

And that goes both ways. AloeVera Aug 2025 #91

Stealing people's homes because of a book of myths Blue Full Moon Aug 2025 #99

Miriam Margolyes was branded antisemitic for saying the same vanessa_ca Aug 2025 #103

I'm glad I don't hear significant legitimate Dem leadership taking this attitude. gulliver Aug 2025 #84

Do you look at the rapidly-expanding Bettie Aug 2025 #100

Yes, I do think radical religion and radical ideology of any kind create problems gulliver Aug 2025 #101

Rec. Xavier Breath Aug 2025 #98

The crybully aspect is notable. David__77 Aug 2025 #108