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In reply to the discussion: Birds are gone [View all]

jfz9580m

(16,378 posts)
88. Not sure
Tue Aug 12, 2025, 09:52 PM
Aug 2025

I have felt in recent years that wildlife rhythms in general sound a bit off..but it is so hard to tell if that sort of thing is merely in your head or real. Not just birds, chipmunks alarm calling, cicadas, insects..
But you really can never be sure that it’s not your head processing sound differently.

And one has to be careful because if stupid shit like this:
https://www.audubon.org/news/no-5g-radio-waves-do-not-kill-birds


No, 5G Radio Waves Do Not Kill Birds

Here's the truth behind a Facebook falsehood spreading across the internet.

On the internet, there is often a fine line between a healthy skepticism of new technologies and blatant misinformation. The recent claim that the radio waves from 5G cellular communication towers are causing mass bird die-offs is a perfect example of just how thin that line can be—and how quickly falsehoods can spread across Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and even in the comments of Audubon magazine's stories.

The origin of this claim is as head-spinning as it is instructive, so let's untangle the knot: Does 5G really kill birds, and if not, why are so many people shouting about it online?

The first part of this saga is fairly straightforward: No, 5G—the fifth generation of our mobile cellular network—does not kill birds. “Radio wave emissions above 10 MHz from radio transmission antennas (including cell telephone towers) are not known to harm birds,” says Joe Kirschvink, a biophysicist at the California Institute of Technology who specializes in magnetics, in an email.

Krischvink isn’t just an expert on such matters—he was also involved in a related study that has proven prescient. In 2014, Kirschvink, at the same time as another group of biologists in Germany, found that low-level magnetic radiation, such as AM radio waves, could interfere with migratory birds' ability to orient themselves using the Earth's magnetic field. Although the researchers found that the birds were still able to compensate, they proposed restricting the use of the AM frequency band.

Aware of how this research and the resulting proposal might be interpreted by the general public, Kirschvink issued a strong disclaimer in his study: “Modern-day charlatans will undoubtedly seize on this study as an argument for banning the use of mobile phones, despite the different frequency bands involved,” he wrote.

Despite Kirschvink's clear warning, the claims that cellular radio waves kill birds spread nonetheless. The blame for that, however, doesn't fall on Kirschvink and his peers, but rather one “UFO researcher” posting on Facebook.

The "5G kills birds" phenomenon was started by John Kuhles, who according to the fact-checking site Snopes, “runs several anti-5G conspiracy websites and social media pages.” In a Facebook post last year, Kuhles claimed that a recent mass die-off of European Starlings in the Netherlands was caused by a 5G antenna test. Despite the fact that the local municipality never named a cause for the die-off, and the fact that the test Kuhles cites happened months before the die-off occurred, other Facebook pages and health blogs nonetheless picked up the post.

Things got weirder and even more obfuscated when Indian sci-fi blockbuster 2.0, currently the highest-budgeted Tamil-language film ever made, hit cinemas just days later. Apart from being a parable about how technology is ruining our lives, 2.0 specifically depicts electromagnetic radiation from cell towers wiping out bird populations, validating Kuhles' crackpot theory. “Following the release of ‘2.0’, which revolves around a plot depicting harmful effects of EMF radiation on birds, Indian news organisations, mostly Tamil media, published stories on the movie by adding the ‘birds died in The Netherlands due to 5G’ bit,” reported Indian fact-checking outlet Alt News.

Of course, it didn't stop there.

Of course, it didn't stop there. Fans of 2.0 then found a 2012 YouTube video in which University of Southern California professor Travis Longcore discusses his study finding that communication towers kill 6.8 million birds annually. Dozens of comments on the video either cite the movie directly, or mention that 2.0's director, S. Shankar, “sent them here." Contrary to 2.0's plot, however, Longcore's research attributed these bird deaths to the disorienting lights used on communication towers, not the electromagnetic radiation they emit.

“People have observed for a very long time that nocturnally migrating birds are attracted to lights at night and it's exacerbated during periods of bad weather,” he told NPR in 2012. “It leaves them circling these towers that they encounter and running into either the guide wires on the towers, each other, ending up on the ground and taken by predators.”

Further fueling the 5G flames is a general anxiety around electromagnetic radiation that has been on the rise for the past two decades. Not unlike the claims that 5G kills birds, these fears are also unfounded, stemming from a misinterpretation of a single chart in a 2000 report on the potential health impacts of installing WiFi networks in Florida's Broward County Public Schools, the New York Times reported earlier this year.

Consulting with the school district, physicist Bill Curry cited a chart showing that brain tissue absorbs more radiation as radio frequency increases, thus concluding that WiFi signals, operating in the Ghz spectrum would be hazardous. He was wrong. According to the Times, as radio frequencies increase, our skin blocks them out, making radio waves safer as they increase in frequency (to a certain point). Unfortunately, no one caught Curry's error.

“Over the years, Dr. Curry’s warning spread far, resonating with educators, consumers and entire cities as the frequencies of cellphones, cell towers and wireless local networks rose,” the Times reports. “To no small degree, the blossoming anxiety over the professed health risks of 5G technology can be traced to a single scientist and a single chart.”

Taken together, it’s a strange and worrisome sequence of events that leads us to 5G being blamed for bird die-offs, but it’s also typical of how misinformation spreads on the internet: an urgent headline, backed by a series of half-truths and misinterpretations, validated by popular culture, and amplified and laundered repeatedly through social media posts.

Fortunately, unlike many other conspiracy theories and misinformation campaigns ricocheting around the web, this one doesn’t pose direct harm to anyone or anything. But how the 5G myth and others like it can still cause damage is by distracting people from the many real and urgent threats facing birds and the environment. After all, there are enough of those that we don’t need to make up any new ones.


It is true that electronics noise does disrupt birds:

https://www.science.org/content/article/electronic-smog-disorients-european-robins

Electronic Smog Disorients European Robins
Migratory birds thrown off by AM radio waves


The traffic reports on AM radio might help humans navigate, but the electromagnetic waves they travel on could have the opposite effect on birds. A 7-year investigation has discovered that radio waves disrupt the piloting systems of migratory European robins. The work, experts say, provides convincing evidence that such transmissions can alter animal behavior.

For decades, people have feared that cellphones, power lines, and other sources of electromagnetic radiation might harm both human health and nature. But don't fret. Your cellphones are still safe to use in the wild. "Modern-day charlatans will try to exploit this study to claim that cellphone radiation causes damage, but it's not screwing up the robins," says geobiologist Joseph Kirschvink of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, who was not involved in the study. "It's telling them to use a different sense."

European robins, like many migratory birds, can navigate via Earth's magnetic fields—but they don't have to. Scientists have known for 30 years that robins' magnetosense deactivates when it might lead them astray, for instance if they hit a spot where Earth's geomagnetic field dramatically changes strength. Low-intensity radio waves now join this group of negative triggers.
Biologists at the University of Oldenburg in Germany stumbled upon the phenomenon by accident in 2004 while they were testing a basic feature of European robin behavior. During the spring and autumn, the birds' urge to travel is so strong that captured individuals will reflexively start jumping in the direction of their migration, even scratching up the bottom of their cages. But when the robins were held in wooden huts on campus, they were suddenly clueless as to which way they were supposed to be going.

So the researchers started experimenting to see why the birds' compasses appeared to have shut off. Change their food? No difference. Tweak their sleep cycles with artificial lighting? Nada. Finally, they started wondering if the magnetic fields produced by electronic devices on campus might be the culprit.

To find out, the researchers installed aluminum wallpaper inside the birds' wooden huts. The metal sidings were linked by means of wires to metal rods buried in the dirt outside. When electromagnetic noise struck the aluminum, it was soaked up and passed into the land. Known as "grounding," this canceled out the electromagnetic noise coming through the huts' walls, leaving a signal from only Earth's magnetic field. After the screens were built, the robins aligned in the right direction, the team reports online today in Nature. But when the shields were switched off, the birds became disoriented again.

Given the skepticism surrounding prior research into electromagnetic noise and animal habits, the project leaders used double-blind experiments to replicate the finding. Undergraduate and graduate volunteers ran the trials. Some worked in wooden huts with the shields turned on, while others had them off—but to eliminate bias, the students didn't know who was working where.

"We added a number of securities to protect ourselves from wishful thinking," says neurosensory biologist Henrik Mouritsen of the University of Oldenburg, who led the study. "The conditions were repeated with different generations of students, and experiments were blinded on all levels."

Artificially reintroducing magnetic fields into a screened hut allowed the researchers to pinpoint possible sources of the misguiding noise. The most disorienting electromagnetic noise had frequencies matching those produced by AM radio stations and small devices like electronic article surveillance—those little magnetic tags for clothing at department stores. This is 1000 times less powerful than the frequencies emitted by cellphones and 400 times higher than those produced by power lines. Moving the birds to a rural location without electronic noise immediately restored their navigation skills.

European migratory bird populations are declining. Though habitat destruction is the main suspect, the findings raise questions as to whether humanmade electromagnetic pollution from radio stations and home electronics is a general problem across Europe, or if this phenomenon is specific to Oldenburg.

"I just wonder where this strong field originates," says retired zoologist Roswitha Wiltschko, who co-discovered the avian magnetic compass with her husband Wolfgang in the 1970s and who was not involved in the work. "We were doing these experiments in the central district of Frankfurt, a major city, and we never had problems with magnetic fields disrupting the orientation of our birds." Wiltschko feels the study is "really well done" but thinks more research is needed before claiming that this is a general occurrence.

If it is, the effect should be short-ranged and limited to within 5 to 10 km of AM stations, says Kirschvink, who thinks that birds may have evolved this off switch for their magnetic compass long before Guglielmo Marconi invented the radio in order to combat radiation fluxes created by the sun's activity.



On a different head, the street traffic on my street has been obnoxiously heavy lately. I live in a very corrupt communist state in the Global South where the govt has caused many environmental disasters in the name of “development”. So I wouldn’t put it past these corrupt creeps to do bogus traffic studies etc deploying bots and AI etc.


It’s one thing if it’s studies like those done by Mouritsen.

And this seems respectable enough:
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2022/11/10/worlds-largest-open-track-traffic-experiment-being-conducted-in-nashville-nov-14-18/

World’s largest open-track traffic experiment being conducted in Nashville

Tennessee middle schoolers investigate a Nashville watershed while trying on STEM roles
Get to know Vanderbilt’s residential faculty: Jesse Spencer-Smith
Share this Story

Nov 10, 2022, 3:00 PM

The CIRCLES Consortium, consisting of Vanderbilt University and several other universities, in coordination with Nissan North America, Toyota, GM, and the Tennessee Department of Transportation, will test 100 AI-equipped vehicles in an effort to mitigate human-caused traffic jams.

The experiments are scheduled to occur along a four-mile stretch of I-24 starting on Monday, Nov. 14 through Friday, Nov. 18, 2022, between the hours of 5 a.m. and 10:30 a.m., integrated into the normal flow of traffic.

The I-24 MOTION testbed, where the AI-equipped vehicles will travel in the normal flow of traffic, is the only automotive testing environment of its kind in the U.S. It is opening in fall 2022 and is equipped with 300 4K digital sensors that are mounted on poles spaced 600 feet apart. The system generates data on the 260,000,000 vehicle-miles of traffic that occurs annually within the testbed.

In this experiment, researchers from the CIRCLES Consortium will deploy up to 100 vehicles, comprised of Nissan Rogue, Toyota RAV4 and a Cadillac XT5, that each include an AI-equipped adaptive cruise control technology used in an earlier experiment.

In that test—conducted with 20 cars on a closed track—just one vehicle equipped with the AI system changed the driving behavior of the other 20 cars, alleviating the stop-and-go dynamic that often leads to traffic jams with no obvious cause. Because of the ripple effects that the AI-equipped cars had on other drivers, researchers measured a sizeable fuel savings compared with driving in typical traffic jams.

As researchers increase the scale of the testing and introduce real world driving conditions, they will investigate whether the improved traffic and fuel-economy outcomes measured in the smaller study continue to hold.

This research is supported by the National Science Foundation, as well as the U.S. Departments of Transportation and Energy. Support was also provided by Toyota North America and General Motors.


But based on my experiences here I wouldn’t want any such experiments with birds or traffic conducted in this region without public comment as well as strict oversight by respectable scientists like Mouritsen or say Madhav Gadgil who wrote this report on the Western ghats in India which were completely disregarded.

I do not trust the government let alone the private sector where I live. And would expect to find a self-dealing shill who enables encroachment into living spaces ignoring the effects on wildlife and human health with corrupt, inept deployment of technology.

I wouldn’t want any of it in or near my home or on my street. This is not Germany or the US and politics aside it’s pretty corrrupt and this cartoon in the Indiatimes gets it:



Based on my experiences locally with the kinds of people who do these shady, creepy real world experiments, whether it’s tech or the humans deploying the tech, data or exploitation of the street and residences, it should not be conducted without explicit consent and certainly it would be a hard no from me were my neighborhood, streets and home involved.

I was sexually harassed multiple times by a defence contractor with a Lockheed Martin contact in 2014, creeps on the street starting from 2023. Nothing I have seen here would indicate the data science, AI or other work, studies like Mouritsen’s or traffic studies conducted here would be anything but corrupt.

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Birds are gone [View all] 4bonhoffer Aug 2025 OP
No birds. No bugs. No small mammals. marble falls Aug 2025 #1
Amen to that popsdenver Aug 2025 #57
Invasive Species OC375 Aug 2025 #2
I've come to believe that the human race is a cancer on this planet Dr. T Aug 2025 #34
I have held that view for years. Disaffected Aug 2025 #41
It definitely has the same spiritual integrity. mjvpi Aug 2025 #76
Yes. Alliepoo Aug 2025 #63
My Grandma was born on 1896 Chipper Chat Aug 2025 #3
The decline has been dramatic the past 10 years Easterncedar Aug 2025 #4
I'm also in the midwest somethingshiny Aug 2025 #5
Same here in VT paleotn Aug 2025 #19
Similar here Taylor Picker Aug 2025 #21
Love those gorgeous goldfinches! somethingshiny Aug 2025 #25
Since you mention it BumRushDaShow Aug 2025 #58
Small town in Iowa.... Bettie Aug 2025 #71
I don't see any evidence of that, something is eating a lot of bird seed from doc03 Aug 2025 #6
Gray squirrels paleotn Aug 2025 #20
People do tend to notice the birds not singing in August, because that's when most songbirds are getting ready to WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2025 #7
For some reason, it seems to be more noticeable this year. MLWR Aug 2025 #17
FWIW, that doesn't mean they're not there. Humans just aren't that great at noticing silent birds, even in urban areas. WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2025 #18
Have you listened to... FeelingBlue Aug 2025 #29
All year I have noticed the lack of wood thrushes singing RandomNumbers Aug 2025 #67
Silent "Fall?" 3825-87867 Aug 2025 #8
west nile virus ran through my area in 01-02. corvids r still not back. mopinko Aug 2025 #9
There are still birds, bugs, small mammals where i live. mwmisses4289 Aug 2025 #10
We have a bamboo grove at our home Dave says Aug 2025 #43
Yes, it's horrifying. SunSeeker Aug 2025 #11
Plant something they like? Sharma Dreihund Aug 2025 #12
Guerrilla gardening. hunter Aug 2025 #45
I'm lucky enough to live in a part of Chicago where mucifer Aug 2025 #73
I think the summer heat is causing them to stay hidden, but the birds are still here FakeNoose Aug 2025 #13
Put out a feeder and keep it stocked! HeartsCanHope Aug 2025 #14
Yes somethingshiny Aug 2025 #28
Should have remembered this in my post. HeartsCanHope Aug 2025 #94
Insects. Topomi Aug 2025 #15
The animals understand what is going on Bluestocking Aug 2025 #16
No butterflies. sinkingfeeling Aug 2025 #22
Fewer. Not "no". But we are on the way. RandomNumbers Aug 2025 #68
Good to hear. I remember being a kid in central Ohio and the fields were full of butterflies. sinkingfeeling Aug 2025 #70
Robins stay here all winter Klaus Hergersheimer Aug 2025 #23
My mom I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2025 #83
Last night at dusk I heard two screams. Tbear Aug 2025 #24
NE Ohio here. I still have plenty of birds in my backyard Diamond_Dog Aug 2025 #26
When I was a youngster in the 50's randr Aug 2025 #27
Same Here EddieOnTheMesa Aug 2025 #30
Same here in Kansas. MuseRider Aug 2025 #31
It's because we're being gaslit that everything is ok, and, there's a collective delusion. Oneironaut Aug 2025 #32
Upper upper Midwest here GusBob Aug 2025 #33
See the Audubon song bird census Easterncedar Aug 2025 #35
Hmm...I'm not seeing that at all. MineralMan Aug 2025 #36
I love my red-winged blackbirds. Chipper Chat Aug 2025 #77
Yes. My wife and I like them, too. MineralMan Aug 2025 #99
I used to see American Kestrels all the time along a stretch of railroad track north of my house and it has been 20 .... Botany Aug 2025 #37
Thanks for sharing the beautiful picture of this beautiful bird nt blue_jay Aug 2025 #56
We have Rebl2 Aug 2025 #38
When I notice the birds in our yard have gone silent and disappeared... hunter Aug 2025 #46
In my area, ForgedCrank Aug 2025 #39
This is scary. calimary Aug 2025 #40
Greater Chicago area here, and our backyard is alive with birds , squirrels and rabbits. 3catwoman3 Aug 2025 #42
West Central Wisconsin here madwivoter Aug 2025 #44
Yup, insecticides, rodenticide and herbicides. republianmushroom Aug 2025 #47
Yes--all those poisons catchnrelease Aug 2025 #64
No shortage here in suburban Detroit. bif Aug 2025 #48
Silent Spring. justaprogressive Aug 2025 #49
My sister lives in the country in SE Indiana maxsolomon Aug 2025 #50
Our bird feeders were swarmed in the spring Bayard Aug 2025 #51
I don't know about your weather MorbidButterflyTat Aug 2025 #52
Good. I noticed my car has been cleaner lately. Wanderlust988 Aug 2025 #53
I miss them flamingdem Aug 2025 #54
Even mix of house cats murdering lots of birds plus food declines IbogaProject Aug 2025 #55
I love cats I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2025 #84
I love cats too, but don't let ours outside to murder. IbogaProject Aug 2025 #95
They are predators I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2025 #97
Neo-nicotinic pesticides. Personally I think they are why people are so stupid and angry LT Barclay Aug 2025 #59
As luck would have it, I have unintentionally been paying attention to our local wildlife blue_jay Aug 2025 #60
YEP. AND YEP. BurnDoubt Aug 2025 #61
I've found that nothing attracts birds like moving water catchnrelease Aug 2025 #66
We had that early on, but now, seriously, if twenty birds show up it's a celebration. BurnDoubt Aug 2025 #74
100% right about the insects on the car catchnrelease Aug 2025 #82
I remember riding with my I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2025 #86
Any canaries? nt Exp Aug 2025 #62
A woman on our local Nextdoor KT2000 Aug 2025 #65
I don't know how to post a song/video, but Dear Rachel Carson is worth the Intergoogles. Tom Dyer Aug 2025 #69
bird decline - 2,900.000,000 see link below Nigrum Cattus Aug 2025 #72
Birds and others LilElf70 Aug 2025 #75
I'm hoping its not too late to turn around...plant native plants, eliminate pesticides, provide food and water Fresh_Start Aug 2025 #78
It's late summer; they don't sing much now. I've had a lot of birds on my feeders Ocelot II Aug 2025 #79
I travel KS & MO a lot FoxNewsSucks Aug 2025 #80
It bothers me too I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2025 #81
Pollinators like bees are now scarce where I am in Wisconsin. Ziggysmom Aug 2025 #85
Sorry to hear.... Glamrock Aug 2025 #87
Not sure jfz9580m Aug 2025 #88
Cats kill an estimated Trashman272 Aug 2025 #89
Habitat destruction due to human overpopulation jfz9580m Aug 2025 #91
"most of this (77%) is used for rearing livestock" - YEP RandomNumbers Aug 2025 #100
Is that something new? FoxNewsSucks Aug 2025 #96
Plant things that birds and bugs like.... William Gustafson Aug 2025 #90
we have crap birds. pansypoo53219 Aug 2025 #92
Was likevthat for a couple years here. Figarosmom Aug 2025 #93
People are earths parasites. punguin54 Aug 2025 #98
Birds aren't real. underpants Aug 2025 #101
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