For the mobs who want to BURN IT DOWN

[RainDog]

123. this mutual masturbation is strange to see

however, it does help to clarify things for those of us who are merely rubbing necking in the thread and aren't part of one faction or another on DU.

Even people who strongly support Obama can disagree with a continuation of FISA - EVEN IF Congress rubber stamped it.

If someone has an ethical position, you can't argue that away by calling them a mob or claiming they want Democrats to lose, etc. etc.

This may not matter to you if all you want to do is fight - but if you really want to address issues for many people on the left and in the middle, you don't succeed by resorting to jingoistic "My President, Right or Wrong" statements.

This is the sentiment expressed by authoritarians.

Authoritarians will never convince someone who is anti-authoritarian to abandon an ethical position because an authoritarian tells him or her to do so.

If you have a "beautiful vision" - you don't convince others of its value by posting near incoherent rants about straw men.