General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

101. Absolutely. People are afraid of the topic, and afraid of the sufferers, too.

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 03:46 PM

Feb 2013

I got a crash course in the subject up close and personal many decades ago via an in-law who had substantial struggles with the appropriate balance of psychiatric support and medication over the course of several years.

I won't lie, there were times when the illness was a bit...exasperating. We do find it easier to sympathize with a broken leg or brain cancer than we do with profound depression or bipolar disorder with schizophrenic affect. I think that education and awareness campaigns are helpful in this regard; it's not a character flaw, after all, it's a disease, a chronic illness that can be mitigated with medication and treatment.

I stuck with my in-law, and ran towards rather than from, and I'm glad I did. I have a best friend for life as a consequence, where I might otherwise have had a "tolerated relation by marriage."

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] WilliamPitt Feb 2013 OP

K&R. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #1

yes. simple enough. nt seabeyond Feb 2013 #2

k&r HappyMe Feb 2013 #3

What? You mean the 'gubberment conspiracy' to take him out isn't the extent of the story? onehandle Feb 2013 #4

Gubberment conspiracy? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #14

You are hitching your cart to the wrong horse, hoss BlueStreak Feb 2013 #58

yes, we should continue to ignore them 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #60

No. You address the real issues head on and leave this other nonsense alone. BlueStreak Feb 2013 #168

please don't tell me what I can and cannot address n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #196

Dorner killed policeman and the children of policeman... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #5

Neither Ned Kelley, Billy the Kid, nor Bonnie and Clyde ever ambushed and murdered ... 11 Bravo Feb 2013 #186

Different times, different strokes. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #192

apparently IOKIYNTS hfojvt Feb 2013 #6

I thought NTS was an abbreviation for 'nuts' there, for a second...nt MADem Feb 2013 #17

Missing the point completely... Taverner Feb 2013 #7

purposely 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #10

The "they" that shot up the vehicles is NOT the "they" that surrounded the cabin. MADem Feb 2013 #23

there were several jurisdictions involved in that final episode.. frylock Feb 2013 #28

The "they" that were running the show were the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Department. MADem Feb 2013 #35

regardless of who had operational control.. frylock Feb 2013 #113

Yes, and they had an APV out there that was tearing down the walls of the cabin, too. MADem Feb 2013 #114

that is indeed true.. frylock Feb 2013 #115

yes, they probably only have one bad apple in their 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #40

The issue isn't bad apples--the issue is calling every law enforcement MADem Feb 2013 #73

ya know what? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #76

I like to discuss issues and current events, but I don't take things personally. MADem Feb 2013 #98

Do you realize those that "shot up the vehicles" were not the same departments either??????????????? George II Feb 2013 #57

DUH, no, that's not true--LAPD did shoot up the vehicle in Torrance. MADem Feb 2013 #68

Both shootings were IN Torrance, the first by LAPD, the second by Torrance PD..... George II Feb 2013 #134

We'll just have to split the difference, then. MADem Feb 2013 #136

In this case, three wrongs (think about it!) George II Feb 2013 #187

and? robinlynne Feb 2013 #70

well put. Thank-you. robinlynne Feb 2013 #69

or, one may feel that you are missing a very glaring point. the victims.... nt seabeyond Feb 2013 #12

the victims of police departments across the country or just those 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #41

ah. so the victims of doner matter not? not true victim? not as much victim? seabeyond Feb 2013 #45

your problem (Dorner) is dead 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #50

I think you take it wrong. robinlynne Feb 2013 #71

ya know what? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #72

i can appreciate your post. seabeyond Feb 2013 #80

No, the ones about whom you've shown zero concern. As has most of the site. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #82

here cali Feb 2013 #8

but your facts get in the way of my pointless self conceived indignation! Johonny Feb 2013 #15

lol. thanks for not ignoring my post, J. cali Feb 2013 #19

RIP the four marions ghost Feb 2013 #9

Only Doner cartach Feb 2013 #84

Thanks for that link, marions ghost.. Cha Feb 2013 #129

I am sad for everybody injured by this tragedy magical thyme Feb 2013 #11

Well Said! vankuria Feb 2013 #30

Careful there - you are supposed to feel only hatred for Dorner. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #33

There is are emotions between hatred nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #49

K&R. Chorophyll Feb 2013 #13

K&R rynestonecowboy Feb 2013 #34

Yes, some of whom left spouses and young children. It's rather unfortunate that a very small crew MADem Feb 2013 #16

everyone is always stupid when they don't agree with you? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #46

Oh, please. MADem Feb 2013 #79

"Speaking Power To The Man..." KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #53

There are inconvenient truths to his situation, too, that people would rather not acknowledge. MADem Feb 2013 #90

This Walks Into A Far Bigger Issue Americans Don't Want To Go Near... KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #96

Absolutely. People are afraid of the topic, and afraid of the sufferers, too. MADem Feb 2013 #101

Thank You For Sharing... KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #112

One from me dkf Feb 2013 #18

I'm confused. Is your thread for them, or for Dorner? Glassunion Feb 2013 #20

My sympathy for Mr Dorner ends at the two uninvolved people he murdered. That said .... marble falls Feb 2013 #21

Sadly, I think what gets lost in situations like this Blue_Roses Feb 2013 #22

Exactly. Crickets all around on that. cliffordu Feb 2013 #24

What is more messed up is the outrage on Dorner's behalf, not for Monica Quan or Keith Lawrence. dkf Feb 2013 #25

Most people are outraged, not on dorner's "behalf", but at the inappropriate actions of police. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #32

And Dorner murdering Quan and Lawrence in cold blood was an appropriate action? dbackjon Feb 2013 #42

That is where you get it all wrong. There is not ONE DUer who thinks Dorner's murders were ok. robinlynne Feb 2013 #74

How upset are you that Monica Quan is dead? dkf Feb 2013 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #95

snap frylock Feb 2013 #124

Trayvon's death was a tragedy and obviously not his fault. dkf Feb 2013 #158

His manifesto fails my smell test. He rants on about how he wants to kill mean lesbian bosses and MADem Feb 2013 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #94

Where are the threads you posted for them? Hatchling Feb 2013 #26

ahhh, u must have missed all the "he killed two beautiful young people" 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #27

search function broken for you, Will? frylock Feb 2013 #29

They aren't controversial but he is? People like to talk about controversy. It's human nature. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #31

Where was the due process for Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence? Sedona Feb 2013 #36

By that logic, we should never have trials for murder. While the courts are flawed, lynch mobs have yurbud Feb 2013 #38

That makes zero sense as a reply dbackjon Feb 2013 #43

I am not implying that at all, but "due process" like the Geneva Convention is for people we don't yurbud Feb 2013 #54

What would you have suggested they do? dbackjon Feb 2013 #56

you seem not to have read my reply. The cops may not have had other options yurbud Feb 2013 #61

I fully understand due process dbackjon Feb 2013 #63

I was arguing with your comment about the victims which implied that with that crime, yurbud Feb 2013 #133

That is not what I said dbackjon Feb 2013 #138

Well, if he was violently opposed to engaging in due process, not their geek tragedy Feb 2013 #81

Dorner was holed up in a house shooting at cops with a assault rifle Sedona Feb 2013 #52

I didn't say that, I was just responding to the "due process" comment yurbud Feb 2013 #179

There should be more threads for Dorner's victims meanit Feb 2013 #37

that's a good summary. yurbud Feb 2013 #39

people are giving the domestic equivalent of the argument for torture and drone executions yurbud Feb 2013 #44

Indeed. If this were a simple event of a nutcase killing innocents and, in the end, being chased Nay Feb 2013 #59

What about the inflexible mob that is unwilling to admit that Dorner had a chance to surrender dbackjon Feb 2013 #48

Of course Dorner could have surrendered meanit Feb 2013 #83

If he wasn't going to surrender dbackjon Feb 2013 #141

What would I have suggested the police do? meanit Feb 2013 #166

Maybe we should let an investigation happen first dbackjon Feb 2013 #172

Agreed meanit Feb 2013 #177

Or it's people who insist on stating that the police tried and actually geek tragedy Feb 2013 #88

Dorner is gone. What do you care if people question the cop's intentions? meanit Feb 2013 #110

For one, you have no evidence he burned to death as opposed to geek tragedy Feb 2013 #117

You have no more evidence than anybody else, either. meanit Feb 2013 #154

indeed frylock Feb 2013 #116

You could have started a thread for them instead of asking where they were. NCTraveler Feb 2013 #47

I think Will just did Katie Feb 2013 #67

See what you started Will? Hekate Feb 2013 #55

55 posts in, and that's your takeaway?! frylock Feb 2013 #128

Hey, would you let me know when the imminent answer arrives? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #176

i must have those people on ignore, because i'm not seeing those posts either frylock Feb 2013 #184

Innocent victims all rustydog Feb 2013 #62

This is one unique story. A perfect storm if you will. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #64

The guy was selfish. He wasn't trying to lead a cause.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #65

It's hard to get to empathy for Dorner's victims until ciking724 Feb 2013 #75

So, your stance is that Dorner is the real victim, and until his good name is cleared geek tragedy Feb 2013 #85

My stance is exactly as stated, it is difficult for those who identify ciking724 Feb 2013 #119

You spoke as one who identifies with Dorner. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #121

I disagree. Decent people will be concerned about investigating this case and bringing those ciking724 Feb 2013 #130

I'll blame the guy who shot them. Novel idea. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #132

Yup dbackjon Feb 2013 #147

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #153

Okay, you're just a troll. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #157

Not a troll; just sharing the truth. Have a nice day! ciking724 Feb 2013 #159

If it wasn't against the TOS to call you a troll, I'd call you a troll. nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #169

Um, you still just called them a troll.. which is against TOS MessiahRp Feb 2013 #195

Disgusting attitude dbackjon Feb 2013 #144

Ruh roh, we're agreeing a lot these days. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #148

LOL - I noticed that ;) dbackjon Feb 2013 #151

This man was not insane, and you know that. He WAS NOT a serial murderer, or he ciking724 Feb 2013 #167

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #171

Who says anything about giving LAPD a pass? dbackjon Feb 2013 #173

Oh, what absolute RUBBISH. sibelian Feb 2013 #178

How dare you call a DUer evil while excusing a serial killer. Yes, he was a serial killer. DevonRex Feb 2013 #181

I disagree. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #185

Your remarks do not account for a couple of facts. MADem Feb 2013 #111

People who identify with a serial killer generally are sociopaths to begin with. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #123

My understanding is that the LAPD ciking724 Feb 2013 #125

How on earth does that affect your ability to feel empathy geek tragedy Feb 2013 #126

For many people, the injustice to Dorner and the victims he spoke up for, ciking724 Feb 2013 #145

Speak for yourself please. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #146

That attitude is fucking sick. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #193

He told HIS version of what he believed happened dbackjon Feb 2013 #152

I think in our heart of hearts, we all know he told the truth. ciking724 Feb 2013 #155

So you are saying that someone that does not believe Dorner 100% is EVIL? dbackjon Feb 2013 #156

Dude, this is a troll. A rightwinger talking like his fantasy of what geek tragedy Feb 2013 #161

Yet his posts are cleared by the jury... dbackjon Feb 2013 #162

He'll fall off the high wire eventually. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #164

He had failed of selection TWICE. That's why he lost his clearance. MADem Feb 2013 #175

these argument about dorner are really pushing on the intellectually dishonest territory La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #77

Had he been a Neo-Nazi white guy and his victims African-American, I can geek tragedy Feb 2013 #87

yes, because there is historical context there. not because of nothing. La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #92

Historical context is irrelevant to the blameworthiness of a man who murders geek tragedy Feb 2013 #93

actually the example you provided does matter La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #97

Not really. Monica Quan's family is grieving regardless. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #99

yes, and no one is saying that she was not a victim or that her death was not sad La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #100

At least one person is: geek tragedy Feb 2013 #103

one person w. 65 posts on du. my original argument that people are really stretching La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #105

Hmmm, how many people were denouncing the police for taking him out geek tragedy Feb 2013 #107

again, we can't control individual mad men we however have a responsibility to control La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #109

Problem is, people are claiming abuse where there's no evidence geek tragedy Feb 2013 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author geek tragedy Feb 2013 #102

one du'er with 65 posts, is your best example of how du'ers dont think about the victim. La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #104

Those who refer to her death as "retributive justice' and those who say geek tragedy Feb 2013 #106

this is because we can't stop individual people but the state acts at our behest La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #108

But the false accusation that Dorner was murdered indicates more than geek tragedy Feb 2013 #120

Yes, Lioness, you are exactly correct. I expect DUers to be better at critical thinking, and I Nay Feb 2013 #91

The main point of intellectual dishonesty is the claim that the police use of the tear geek tragedy Feb 2013 #127

no no no. anything short of "Burn the mutherfucker" is tacit approval.. frylock Feb 2013 #131

When people make shit up about how his rights were violated, that's a tacit geek tragedy Feb 2013 #135

yeah i agree. also we dont exert control over random civilian actions (even if they are as heinous La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #174

+1 nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #182

Depends. Do I agree with their politics? Prism Feb 2013 #78

Yup. In a nutshell. nt Chorophyll Feb 2013 #86

Yep. one_voice Feb 2013 #190

Start them. Gore1FL Feb 2013 #89

The reason for the difference is that DU is largely a place for discussing public affairs. Jim Lane Feb 2013 #122

The question, though, is whether this debate would be going on under the exact geek tragedy Feb 2013 #139

I, for one, believe in due process for all -- even Anders Breivik. Jim Lane Feb 2013 #160

Here's an example of what I was talking about. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #163

You put it best. yurbud Feb 2013 #142

I wondered that. Especially DevonRex Feb 2013 #137

Too many people are trying to "understand" Dorner and intellectualized gibberish defenses of him bluestateguy Feb 2013 #140

that's what right wing pundits said after 9/11, and the lack of public analysis of motives yurbud Feb 2013 #150

K/R thank you for your post sasha031 Feb 2013 #143

The latest victim was Jeremiah MacKay Cha Feb 2013 #149

You mean the 'alleged victim' right? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #165

You have made your contempt for the concept of due process pretty clear. nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #183

Thank you. I've wondered the same thing - lynne Feb 2013 #170

I agree completely. Ilsa Feb 2013 #180

This is the silliest response I have read Android3.14 Feb 2013 #188

No idea Blecht Feb 2013 #189

I thought you were actually paid to write. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #191

I think it's a tragedy when anyone dies by violence Prophet 451 Feb 2013 #194