General Discussion

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)

207. I agree with most of what you've said . . .

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:16 AM

Feb 2013

And I have voted with my feet on the tipping system: I live in a country where it's not done. When I visit the States, however, I reluctantly comply.

But the issue is much larger than just restaurants. Huge chunks of the US labor system are based on literally starvation wages (at least in most restaurants, the servers get fed), with the customer or society as a whole supposed to fill the gap.

That's a problem bigger than me, I'm afraid, and it's one reason why -- although I retain my American citizenship and will eventually come back -- I much prefer where I'm living now. They solved this problem years ago by making a societal decision that full-time 'adult' jobs needed to provide a living wage.

For the most part the system works, aided substantially by a single-payer healthcare system that relieves employers of that burden (by shifting it to them as taxpayers, of course), an innate belief in the dignity of labor, and -- to be honest -- substantially higher prices for everything.

It's a trade-off I'm happy to make.

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"I don't tip." [View all] WilliamPitt Feb 2013 OP

Indeed. I do tip based on performance, but generally try to tip generously. el_bryanto Feb 2013 #1

out of curiosity, what *is* your "standard?" n/t orleans Feb 2013 #39

18% or thereabouts n/t el_bryanto Feb 2013 #46

20% is easier to calculate and many times the things that upaloopa Feb 2013 #54

The last time I was at Denny's, there was ONE wait staff and ONE cook working there that day. freshwest Feb 2013 #88

They're not? Floyd_Gondolli Feb 2013 #242

I've edited to be more specific. How is the Democratic party doing in your area? freshwest Feb 2013 #248

It's non existent Floyd_Gondolli Feb 2013 #249

Yes - I worked in a restaurant before - so I am well aware of that el_bryanto Feb 2013 #120

Could be she was told to wait so that you might upaloopa Feb 2013 #158

Exactly... GTurck Feb 2013 #229

Poor service is pretty much the rule these days Lordquinton Feb 2013 #138

Yeah, 2 times 10 percent Cosmocat Feb 2013 #234

18%..WOW pangaia Feb 2013 #188

If you have a cell phone, you have a calculator eridani Feb 2013 #225

Not MY cell phone. :>))) pangaia Feb 2013 #253

Love it! TDale313 Feb 2013 #2

I tend to be both generous and forgiving when it comes to tipping. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #3

one time a waiter forgave ME Skittles Feb 2013 #133

And if you DO make this announcement before getting served Cirque du So-What Feb 2013 #4

Oh you! Phentex Feb 2013 #27

The taste of waiter spit The Wizard Feb 2013 #144

Yikes! nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #154

If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. That says it all. (nt) enough Feb 2013 #5

and if you cannot pay minimum wage to your servers pennylane100 Feb 2013 #40

Servers are all paid at least minimum wage Jenoch Feb 2013 #79

In Tn. obama2terms Feb 2013 #132

Yep, $2.13 hr. PLUS your income tax came out of that. jazzimov Feb 2013 #197

163 weeks with a void check bottomofthehill Jul 2013 #314

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #232

IN MN, but not most other places. MessiahRp Feb 2013 #161

Of course I am aware that Minnesota Jenoch Feb 2013 #213

Win-win. n/t mattclearing Feb 2013 #230

We are paid $2.13/hr and we are to make that rest of the minimum wage from our tips. What we don't.. marble falls Feb 2013 #241

I knew that the wages are bad for Jenoch Feb 2013 #247

CA represent! Lordquinton Feb 2013 #142

I don't think there's any state where it's 10% union_maid Feb 2013 #192

Message auto-removed Aaron362 Feb 2013 #236

"You are costing the server money" Lordquinton Feb 2013 #252

Don't you get this? COcook Jul 2013 #264

So What You Are Saying, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #265

Well and succinctly put TM. uppityperson Jul 2013 #267

You guys clearly don't get it COcook Jul 2013 #269

We Understand Perfectly, Sir: You Live Off Others' Work, And Want as Much As You Can Grab From Them The Magistrate Jul 2013 #271

You can't get it. COcook Jul 2013 #273

What would Jesus do? William769 Jul 2013 #274

So......... COcook Jul 2013 #280

No, just those employers who take advantage of their employees by paying crap and making lots uppityperson Jul 2013 #281

Wow COcook Jul 2013 #285

Yup, gets exercise by assuming and jumping to conclusions. Check! uppityperson Jul 2013 #286

I asked you what you thought of slavery. You may have compared yourself, but I simply asked uppityperson Jul 2013 #290

I am retired. William769 Jul 2013 #282

Youn"provide jobs" yet refuse to pay even $7.25/hr. yup, the old "even crap job@shit wages is better uppityperson Jul 2013 #278

His employees make more than 7.25 per hour ceonupe Jul 2013 #291

Yet his starting post was if he had to pay fed min wage it'd be impossible to stay in business. uppityperson Jul 2013 #293

Yeah if he ceonupe Jul 2013 #294

Actually, Sir, You Have Simply Confessed You Have No Arguement The Magistrate Jul 2013 #287

No argument? COcook Jul 2013 #289

If bad wage + tip = good wage with no tip, the customer cost is the same. uppityperson Jul 2013 #292

I find in interesting BainsBane Jul 2013 #295

Defending myself COcook Jul 2013 #300

Why did you feel compelled to sign up just to defend yourself? BainsBane Jul 2013 #301

Profits COcook Jul 2013 #304

The principal is the same BainsBane Jul 2013 #305

Profits II COcook Jul 2013 #308

That's a fair point BainsBane Jul 2013 #309

Thank you COcook Jul 2013 #312

You Have No Argument, Sir, Indeed, You Concede Every Point The Magistrate Jul 2013 #296

Yes, I'm completely cool with that. BainsBane Jul 2013 #266

Making employees survive off the charity of YOUR business's customers so you can make more is uppityperson Jul 2013 #268

Shame on me???? COcook Jul 2013 #270

Clearly you have no Idea what your talking about. William769 Jul 2013 #272

Do you people just like to insult others w/o even trying to understand? COcook Jul 2013 #275

I can't judge you on your actions I can't see. William769 Jul 2013 #277

Clearly you don't bother to read my posts COcook Jul 2013 #283

So changing their salaries from$11/hr to $7.25 is a hardship for you, you'd have to raise prices? uppityperson Jul 2013 #284

math COcook Jul 2013 #297

Ah, you edited your first post 1/2 hr later. I told you my history and current current employment. uppityperson Jul 2013 #299

Edited? COcook Jul 2013 #302

Oh, I agree that some " in this forum is just as bad as the Tea Party people that refuse to even..." uppityperson Jul 2013 #315

You tip? COcook Jul 2013 #318

I actually agree that tipping is not charity BainsBane Jul 2013 #303

You pay $11/hr, fed min wage is $7.25/hr! You can't afford to pay fed minwage? uppityperson Jul 2013 #276

I'm putting on my asbestos undies and coming to your defense. femmedem Jul 2013 #298

Thank you COcook Jul 2013 #306

I'd encourage you to give DU another go... this was a somewhat contentious issue. Agschmid Jul 2013 #310

Thanks COcook Jul 2013 #311

Well to be fair it happens on both sides. Agschmid Jul 2013 #313

"he" is standard default position for much of English language. uppityperson Jul 2013 #316

He does pay the FED "tipped" min wage... Agschmid Jul 2013 #307

Thank you for sharing that piece of information. I appreciate your taking time to do so. uppityperson Jul 2013 #317

If the servers were paid a decent wage the cost of the meal would rise accordingly. alphafemale Feb 2013 #201

yes! Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #218

Its federal law Sgent Feb 2013 #237

Mr Pink CalFresh Feb 2013 #6

Cue The Video thelordofhell Feb 2013 #15

Ha that's the first thing I thought of! Initech Feb 2013 #99

8 dudes had breakfast, $7 tip. MrSlayer Feb 2013 #223

I was hoping that would be here! Lucky Luciano Feb 2013 #83

I have a moral objection to tipping Gormy Cuss Feb 2013 #7

In most of the rest of the civilized world, servers get paid a decent wage, and people don't tip. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #53

I tip in every country I visit riqster Feb 2013 #103

YMMV depending on the country. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #107

I check cultural mores before I go riqster Feb 2013 #110

Good to be safe. Nobody here wants to be Mr. Pink. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #112

Oh, and by the way, which one's Pink? riqster Feb 2013 #115

The guy that said he doesn't tip. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #116

the one riding the gravy train d_r Feb 2013 #128

The name of the game nt riqster Feb 2013 #130

Syd DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #169

Ah... wonderful reference. Thank you. n/t reflection Feb 2013 #235

Smart decision. WinstonSmith4740 Feb 2013 #204

They do accept tips, they just don't expect them... Violet_Crumble Mar 2013 #260

In Japan, they wouldn't take your money. nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #212

Good to know! nt riqster Feb 2013 #231

You are correct. Cheviteau Feb 2013 #239

One reason why Brits may be disliked by wait-staff in restaurants. mwooldri Feb 2013 #109

Having served a lot of Brits back in the day in a fish and chips pub style shop I worked in, I Cleita Feb 2013 #126

I tip...because I like to... nenagh Feb 2013 #76

I would like to see both minimum wage pay (at the very least).... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #85

That's the thing though -- you're tipping as a reward, not as a pseudo-employer. Gormy Cuss Feb 2013 #105

Exactly. laundry_queen Feb 2013 #123

I look forward to that day, too. Iggo Feb 2013 #184

I tip, because this is part of the waitstaff's earnings Mass Feb 2013 #8

I always tip, but if I received poor service, then I wouldn't. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #9

One of my daughters started waitressing again recently LiberalEsto Feb 2013 #10

i always tip 20%+.. frylock Feb 2013 #11

I hate it when the service is really awful, pennylane100 Feb 2013 #44

What you do is complain to the management. Usually, it will get you a free comp meal, Cleita Feb 2013 #58

i'm usually willing to cut the server some slack, knowing how overworked they can be.. frylock Feb 2013 #71

Yeah, it sucks ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #114

I also leave about 20%+ Auggie Feb 2013 #146

And her income tax is based on the assumption she upaloopa Feb 2013 #57

Yep, and that's the law. She must pay taxes on 8% of the gross sales on Cleita Feb 2013 #81

I didnt know that! indie9197 Feb 2013 #118

Not exactly Gormy Cuss Feb 2013 #119

That's only if the employer allows it. I have done payroll for several employers and Cleita Feb 2013 #122

The 8% is not a safe harbor Sgent Feb 2013 #238

Oh sure the employees need to turn in their tips and I believe there is a law passed about ten years Cleita Feb 2013 #246

Yeah, right. I had a co-worker that tried that. jazzimov Feb 2013 #199

Sounds like FAKING a tip journal doesn't work JimDandy Feb 2013 #203

Really? kyeshinka Feb 2013 #64

No, being stiffed as in no tip, there is no legal requirement to tip Fumesucker Feb 2013 #102

I like Ruby Tuesday OriginalGeek Feb 2013 #136

Gaithersburg MD LiberalEsto Feb 2013 #143

Nope OriginalGeek Feb 2013 #151

Having worked in the restaurant business in various capacities, on and off, during Cleita Feb 2013 #12

agreed ! nt steve2470 Feb 2013 #14

I'm not going to flame you, but I will say that if you're going to automatically add Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #17

Because of the way the restaurant business works and how the income tax is structured. Cleita Feb 2013 #25

"the restaurant still has to pay, in theory, minimum wage to the server" WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #26

And they should be getting minimum wage IMHO. Somewhere, the laws got changed to Cleita Feb 2013 #30

what even made you start this topic? I don't get where your going! 4 t 4 Feb 2013 #177

"you're" WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #190

Minimum wage works in many countries. SwissTony Feb 2013 #31

Your point? Cleita Feb 2013 #33

Sometimes the restaurant owner loses, sometime (s)he wins. (n/t) SwissTony Feb 2013 #35

The restaurant owner only loses when he doesn't know how to run the Cleita Feb 2013 #42

Fair enough. I confess to never having worked in the catering business... SwissTony Feb 2013 #73

I've waited tables union_maid Feb 2013 #196

Well, if I'm catering a luncheon for, say, 100 people, Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #37

That would work. You would have to make sure that whoever is doing your payroll Cleita Feb 2013 #48

You bring up good points. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #104

Naah. A properly managed restaurant . . . MrModerate Feb 2013 #175

I agree about the healthcare. Here most restaurants will deduct health care from the servers' wages. Cleita Feb 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #45

It's actually harder than you might think. Cleita Feb 2013 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #82

I've worked as a concrete laborer, built houses, remodeled houses and painted houses. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #129

I've waited tables union_maid Feb 2013 #195

I'll bet the cruise ships did that after hosting the Southern Baptist Judgmentalism Convention. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #56

Also, Republican politicians and their followers. Cleita Feb 2013 #62

Not a flame, but I disagree MurrayDelph Feb 2013 #67

What kind of service do you want? Cleita Feb 2013 #77

I'm OK with that, but don't call it a "gratuity". Call it "subsidizing the server's pay" maggiesfarmer Feb 2013 #156

Actually, more accurately it's a service charge. Just like on your plumbing bill or Cleita Feb 2013 #157

yes, 'service charge' is accurate and conventional maggiesfarmer Feb 2013 #164

k&r nt steve2470 Feb 2013 #13

Message auto-removed von Kook Feb 2013 #16

Hell, Go Vols Feb 2013 #18

This brings up something I've always wondered: kentauros Feb 2013 #65

A dollar per bag (or ice bucket or whatever) DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #86

Thank you! kentauros Feb 2013 #87

As I posted below. DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #93

Yes, that's a nice bar trick! kentauros Feb 2013 #96

I always tip. In_The_Wind Feb 2013 #19

Even when I've been unemployed and eating out kentauros Feb 2013 #69

G.M.T.A. In_The_Wind Feb 2013 #74

I worked my way through college on tips: I tip 20% REGARDLESS of performance alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #20

You should always take the change back... Phentex Feb 2013 #24

I know, I know alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #32

Sounds like an ass anyway... Phentex Feb 2013 #36

you kept money that was not yours and you blame the customer for being bad? wow nt msongs Feb 2013 #68

If I can't afford a tip... bobclark86 Feb 2013 #140

The entire system is backasswards... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #21

T-I-P stands for nothing. Bicoastal Feb 2013 #59

Thanks for the correction. Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #63

That's NOT what Fiat stands for? Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #84

You mean like Found On the Road Dead? Fix Or Repair Daily? Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #134

Can Hear Every Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips eridani Feb 2013 #226

Somebody needs to make one up for Hyundai, IMO. AverageJoe90 Feb 2013 #227

Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive n/t eridani Mar 2013 #259

Those are funny!!! You must be a gearhead. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #256

Plan On Numerous Trips In Another Car eridani Mar 2013 #258

Agreed, on the hotel thing. DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #89

Yep... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #91

Amen... DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #94

LOL Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #97

This whole sub-thread is making me want a drink. n.t white_wolf Feb 2013 #139

Excuse me? Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #167

I was just making a joke based on all the bar comments. It wasn't very good. Sorry. nt white_wolf Feb 2013 #168

There was a time I would have recognized it as a joke, immediately... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #170

I need to print this for a friend of mine... Phentex Feb 2013 #22

I always tip. My objection is that when I give a tip to my waitress for the excellent mfcorey1 Feb 2013 #23

So the bartender who made your drink and the busboy who cleaned up the table Cleita Feb 2013 #34

I understand your point, but that's not how it works hatrack Feb 2013 #135

That makes it clearer for me. Thanks! mfcorey1 Feb 2013 #137

I haven't tipped since my circumcision lame54 Feb 2013 #28

. . . . . . . WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #38

They are probably smiling at you, though, kentauros Feb 2013 #78

I always tip at least 20%. Especially since I go to a number of restaruants regularly. smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #189

I tip A Little Weird Feb 2013 #41

Non tippers have obviously never waited tables to support themselves. Butterbean Feb 2013 #43

That's the way I feel. I never eat out any more unless someone treats me. Cleita Feb 2013 #55

I love to tip! tblue Feb 2013 #224

I overtip. Mostly because I frequent the same couple of places and will see them again. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #47

Another good lesson I got from my Dad... kimmylavin Feb 2013 #49

Your point about not dating anyone who is a bad tipper is actually Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #106

Throckmorton Tip Schedule (or why the wait staff at my regular places love me): Throckmorton Feb 2013 #51

I always overtip.. one_voice Feb 2013 #52

ANOTHER tpping thread? nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #60

Yup. And you just kicked it. WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #72

a danish epal spent 3 weeks in america last spring. once he got to Wi, i had to explain why we tip pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #61

k&r Solly Mack Feb 2013 #66

"I don't just believe in tipping, I believe in over-tipping" - Steve Martin in "My Blue Heaven". Gorp Feb 2013 #70

lame excuses reorg Feb 2013 #75

America is one of the few countries that go ape shit with tipping Major Nikon Feb 2013 #90

Yes, I'm not aware of any other country reorg Feb 2013 #121

Good point ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #80

Another good site is Stained Apron. DinahMoeHum Feb 2013 #92

The "Sweet Revenge" Section Of Stained Apron Is Great Reading. (nt) Paladin Feb 2013 #95

Heh heh. "George Hayduke", eat your heart out! DinahMoeHum Feb 2013 #117

20% MINIMUM, then I round up which can easily get me to the 25-30% range eggplant Feb 2013 #98

+1000 smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #191

Oregon and Washington pay servers $9 min wage. 10% tip OK. ErikJ Feb 2013 #100

If you don't tip, don't go to the restaurant, period BainsBane Feb 2013 #101

Thats why Food Carts Lots are booming!. ErikJ Feb 2013 #111

I always tip. Beacool Feb 2013 #108

I tip 20%, minimum. n/t ColesCountyDem Feb 2013 #113

Most waiters are paid very little so I tip 20% nineteen50 Feb 2013 #124

I almost always tip, and in my view, you are a dirtbag if you don't quinnox Feb 2013 #125

If you don't tip you are a asshole period. Notafraidtoo Feb 2013 #127

And that goes double for the people who are proud and vocal about non-tipping Posteritatis Feb 2013 #149

Think about what you said Lordquinton Feb 2013 #155

I hardly believe Notafraidtoo Feb 2013 #173

So the owner isn't at fault at all? Lordquinton Feb 2013 #251

Ahh, upgrading "rip off the wait staff" to a social virtue. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2013 #180

Excellent response to those nitwits. nt RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #131

If the subminimum wage was any lower, they could be paid literal peanuts ck4829 Feb 2013 #141

The hell of it is michigandem58 Feb 2013 #145

I have no problem with tipping people who serve me in restaurants, Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #147

I kind of agree with you. Cleita Feb 2013 #165

Tipping starts at 20%. Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #148

When I was a college student, I went to NYC with some friends mountain grammy Feb 2013 #150

I experienced what it was like in a country where people don't tip... Southerner Feb 2013 #152

I live in Australia and visit the US every few months . . . MrModerate Feb 2013 #163

You must have struck a few dud places, because most places I go are good... Violet_Crumble Mar 2013 #261

I worked in the industry for 24 years... fantase56 Feb 2013 #153

Welcome to DU! UrbScotty Feb 2013 #166

I always tip well, but honestly the servers should not have to rely on tips Bjorn Against Feb 2013 #159

Note to ifyoucantaffordtotip.com: Bite me MrModerate Feb 2013 #160

Meh. If you can afford to eat out you are not the victim here. Get over yourself. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2013 #179

Sorry. I'm a restaurant patron. That gives me right to an opinion. MrModerate Feb 2013 #205

You also have the right theKed Feb 2013 #214

What's most interesting about this issue of tipping . . . MrModerate Feb 2013 #216

I think it is the customers job Notafraidtoo Feb 2013 #181

I agree with most of what you've said . . . MrModerate Feb 2013 #207

"I don't tip". Well, how FUCKING convenient!! Cheap ingenuous dick head! AAO Feb 2013 #162

You might want to read the post... octothorpe Feb 2013 #178

Why do you say that? I read it just fine. Do you think it's OK not to tip? AAO Feb 2013 #194

Based on your comment, it appears you don't understand the original post. n/t MrModerate Feb 2013 #208

That's what you say. If it's so difficult for me to understand, please explain it to me. AAO Feb 2013 #233

The post criticizes those who don't tip . . . MrModerate Feb 2013 #254

I guess there was a BIG disconnect AAO Feb 2013 #255

Well. Now *that's* cleared up . . . MrModerate Mar 2013 #262

Being born and raised as a Packer fanatic I hope their chances suck AAO Mar 2013 #263

I call BS!!!! BigD_95 Feb 2013 #171

It becomes your job when you go to the restaurant union_maid Feb 2013 #198

in some countries such as Australia and some European countries servers make a more reasonable wage Douglas Carpenter Feb 2013 #172

I recently spent a week in England. There is no tipping. Chalco Feb 2013 #174

When I was in London, I still tipped 20%. They must have thought I was a total idiot. smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #193

Yes, one confided in me that Americans often did that. But Chalco Feb 2013 #240

And if you do that Warpy Feb 2013 #176

Why can't restaurants just be required to pay minimum wage anyway? OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #183

I'll be torquing some f/b associates.... rppper Feb 2013 #185

I tip so I don't have to wait long... Historic NY Feb 2013 #186

are you kidding me , william 4 t 4 Feb 2013 #187

omg , what has happened ? tipping -really when people can't afford Walmart ? I know some who are bad 4 t 4 Feb 2013 #200

I live in Oregon and all waitstaff get minimum wage Leftcoastgary Feb 2013 #202

I do not disagree. blackspade Feb 2013 #206

Anybody unethical enough not to tip caseymoz Feb 2013 #209

I also tip based on performance, but NOT a fixed % of the bill. BobTheSubgenius Feb 2013 #210

There s no tipping in Japan Bonobo Feb 2013 #211

I Always Tip Big colsohlibgal Feb 2013 #215

Then if the staff spits in your food too fucking bad. donheld Feb 2013 #217

Fuck that! I don't know if it's criminal to do that but is sure as hell should be. You should get Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #219

I didn't say it was right now did I? donheld Feb 2013 #221

I say that as the unlucky recipient of a large wad of hair underneath the cheese on my pizza at Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #220

I'm very sorry that happened to you. donheld Feb 2013 #222

I have generally tipped regardless of performance. mattclearing Feb 2013 #228

Why are you attacking canadians? n/t L0oniX Feb 2013 #243

^^^ Ron Obvious Award Winner ^^^ WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #250

k+r! TeamPooka Feb 2013 #244

Nice. krispos42 Feb 2013 #245

Nice work, Will. flvegan Mar 2013 #257

This message was self-deleted by its author carolinayellowdog Jul 2013 #279

If you don't tip, you're not paying for your meal BainsBane Jul 2013 #288