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muriel_volestrangler

(105,496 posts)

127. Take it up with Ælfric

Mon Mar 4, 2013, 07:43 PM

Mar 2013

Oh, you can't, because he was writing English over a thousand years ago. Nevertheless, his Glossary said to translate 'puella' as 'maiden'. As I said, that's the first written use of 'maiden' in English. This is the point - 'maiden' does not just mean 'virgin', and that has been the case for over a thousand years.

And, while I'm about it, I studied German too. They use 'Mädchen' for 'girl', when there's no question of it being like 'virgin', eg for Quvenzhane Wallis:

http://www.rtl.de/cms/news/exclusiv/oscar-2013-quvenzhane-wallis-stellt-einen-neuen-rekord-auf-2a892-8e15-22-1379889.html

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One phrase that always sticks in my craw: referring to a married woman's former name as "Maiden" [View all] pink-o Mar 2013 OP

Eh JustAnotherGen Mar 2013 #1

Doesn't bother me mimi85 Mar 2013 #125

Refer people to your freonoma. Robb Mar 2013 #2

Sounds like a form of air conditioning cancer. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #49

That made me laugh. CrispyQ Mar 2013 #62

It is an anachronism, for sure. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #3

I know a guy that never got over his wife not taking his name. If you knew what it was you brewens Mar 2013 #44

If the guy never got over his wife not taking his name, probably geek tragedy Mar 2013 #45

Women keeping their birth name is cool with me... Bay Boy Mar 2013 #85

good post. thank you. you are right. words matter. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #4

How do you feel about 'spinster'? Gidney N Cloyd Mar 2013 #5

Bring "spinster" back Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #8

as long as we are talking mary daly's definition: niyad Mar 2013 #10

Right on! n/t Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #14

I loved reading that! CrispyQ Mar 2013 #65

Mad props to Mary Daly. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #137

Well considering I don't own a spinning wheel and get my yarn at Beverly's like everyone else... pink-o Mar 2013 #11

Worse than the word "maiden", I hate "matron". TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #6

Ever hear the term "confirmed bachelor"? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #9

I don't think that gets used very much, does it? It also doesn't imply something TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #27

Confirmed bachelor was code alcibiades_mystery Mar 2013 #35

don't forget Lindsey Graham SoCalDem Mar 2013 #103

I've heard some men called Old Farts, does that count? Frustratedlady Mar 2013 #15

No, there should be an equivalent "polite" word like matron, or matronly-- TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #22

Coot or Curmudgeon? uppityperson Mar 2013 #26

No...unless wedding parties have a "Coot of Honor", or "Best Coot", it's not TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #29

Silver fox? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #30

Ha! What man wouldn't want to be called a silver fox? TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #36

Saffire, the Uppity Blues Women, has a great song for older women - Silver Beaver Hestia Mar 2013 #53

Hmm...matron was a female head nurse,wasn't it? onpatrol98 Mar 2013 #105

Actually, the men are called 'matrons' too muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #120

I just want to know how old I have to be for the title "dirty old man" Major Nikon Mar 2013 #64

crone here, and damned proud of it niyad Mar 2013 #23

LOL, that's another one. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #25

Geezer is usually applied only to men. I'd rather be a matron than a geezer. nt valerief Mar 2013 #80

Because it started when Women were seen as Property of Men JI7 Mar 2013 #129

semantics ARE part of the issue, not a distraction. words matter, the power of naming matters, niyad Mar 2013 #7

You're right about our birth names being patriarchal... pink-o Mar 2013 #20

I always think that it's a good sign to see rants like this in DU. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #12

Definitely a 1st World Problem. FSogol Mar 2013 #18

a typical dismissal of the importance of the power of naming, but, alas, completely unsurprising. niyad Mar 2013 #19

Easy to dismiss Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #37

exactly niyad Mar 2013 #38

What about the women pipi_k Mar 2013 #94

Hoping your mom recovers fully! n/t Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #95

Who is foaming at the mouth? OP said she doesn't like it. That's not foaming at the mouth. Squinch Mar 2013 #132

I always think it's funny to see concerns derided out of an inability to multitask. eom uppityperson Mar 2013 #28

Not derided. Encouraged. It's always interesting to see what people are most concerned about (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #32

and you have dismissed those concerns as being insignificant and not serious. but, as I said, niyad Mar 2013 #39

When did I say I was MOST concerned about this, Sir? pink-o Mar 2013 #93

LOL! Squinch Mar 2013 #128

What specifically leads you to believe that concern with one issue denies the existence... LanternWaste Mar 2013 #102

Women have no name Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #13

that is what I did niyad Mar 2013 #21

I knew I loved ya! Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #24

right back at you!!! niyad Mar 2013 #34

So did I, back when I was 15 or so REP Mar 2013 #83

How cool! Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #98

No, I didn't emancipate REP Mar 2013 #106

Thank you. Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #107

you are right d_r Mar 2013 #16

My spouse kept her name and our kids Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #17

How does that work when your kids get married and have kids? GobBluth Mar 2013 #40

It's up to my children. Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #43

I prefer birth name. MineralMan Mar 2013 #31

My daughter kept her birth name...I was very happy...husband was reluctantly OK with that. Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #48

I agree on the Miss/Ms/Mrs thing, too. MineralMan Mar 2013 #50

Same here Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #67

Along this line of thought... Bay Boy Mar 2013 #88

"husband and wife are one under the law--and that one is the husband"--blackwell niyad Mar 2013 #114

Oh yeah totally agree! pink-o Mar 2013 #89

I refer to it as my surname. And I kept mine when I got married. CrispyQ Mar 2013 #70

Yes, that happens to me a lot. MineralMan Mar 2013 #74

I changed my last name... a la izquierda Mar 2013 #131

For that matter, how about brides wearing white for virginity, throwing rice at a couple who's raccoon Mar 2013 #33

A true First World problem slackmaster Mar 2013 #41

Like Social Security. LanternWaste Mar 2013 #108

Your birth name may not be the same as your maiden name. dkf Mar 2013 #42

Wrong. If you aren't adopted, it's accurate. Cleita Mar 2013 #54

So if you change your name at age 30 that becomes your birth name? Really? dkf Mar 2013 #59

How did you change it? Cleita Mar 2013 #60

No that was your former legal name. dkf Mar 2013 #136

Yeah... 99Forever Mar 2013 #46

I usually call it her "real name" KamaAina Mar 2013 #47

Inaccurate. If the cops ask you what your "real name" is, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #57

Okay. Fair enough. Now what? Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #51

I just object to the word maiden as if my sex life is any one's business. Cleita Mar 2013 #52

I don't really think that the term "maiden name" has sexual connotations. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #55

The word maiden has sexual connotations. It means you are an unmarried virgin. Cleita Mar 2013 #56

How about a white wedding dress? Does that connote virginity? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #58

Nice straw man. Cleita Mar 2013 #61

Actually, they are. See post #33. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #72

Well, then, by all means you should wear one. And those who don't see the point Squinch Mar 2013 #133

I think that needs to be pipi_k Mar 2013 #66

Wrong. Cleita Mar 2013 #71

OK, so now pipi_k Mar 2013 #87

Fantasy novels like all fiction and non-fiction alike have to be grammatically correct Cleita Mar 2013 #92

What does that have to do pipi_k Mar 2013 #97

If you want to make up definitions for words, go ahead. Cleita Mar 2013 #100

It's not the definition pipi_k Mar 2013 #104

The meaning of the word has drifted over the centuries. Here's a contemporary dictionary entry: Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #109

I don't see the meaning has changed at all. Cleita Mar 2013 #111

Not my definitions, and you claimed maiden meant "virgin." Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #115

Whatever. Cleita Mar 2013 #117

You're just one letter off: Maiden mean[t] virgin. It doesn't anymore. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #118

I think I'm right and you think you are right so let's end it. n/t Cleita Mar 2013 #121

It's earliest recorded use in English is as a translation of 'puella' muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #119

Excuse me but since I had to study both Latin and German in school, by Cleita Mar 2013 #122

Take it up with Ælfric muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #127

As the quote goes... pipi_k Mar 2013 #63

So is this OP what people are talking about when they say that others are telling them Squinch Mar 2013 #134

Wait..."Miss" is offensive, too? Tree-Hugger Mar 2013 #68

Some women are offended by it Major Nikon Mar 2013 #69

in the old south CountAllVotes Mar 2013 #81

Me neither pipi_k Mar 2013 #84

I took back my maiden name after I divorced - lynne Mar 2013 #73

I got into it with a DMV employee over a similar issue once. wildeyed Mar 2013 #75

Kept my "maiden" name CountAllVotes Mar 2013 #76

My daughter hyphenates her birth and married names HockeyMom Mar 2013 #82

As a genealogist, I especially love this! CountAllVotes Mar 2013 #99

Well its just semantics Drale Mar 2013 #77

I don't like the term either. Never have. MadrasT Mar 2013 #78

Let's do away with maidenhead, too. It's got nothing to do with the head. nt valerief Mar 2013 #79

It doesn't bother me a bit LibertyLover Mar 2013 #86

I don't get whey Miss or Maiden bothers anyone. bamacrat Mar 2013 #90

So you don't think Maiden conjures up images pink-o Mar 2013 #96

No, I never gave much thought to the word.. bamacrat Mar 2013 #112

Maiden pink-o, it's just a word. Don't get worked up over it. Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #91

I use my birth surname and often tell people Cairycat Mar 2013 #101

Just one more thing pipi_k Mar 2013 #110

112 comments on this linguistic bs while congress institutes austerity = what's wrong with the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #113

I suspect that most people don't even know what "Maiden" means. N/T GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #116

Except in the context of "iron" (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #126

if i need to refer to it at all, i use "birth name" Scout Mar 2013 #123

Get a bigger craw, then... TroglodyteScholar Mar 2013 #124

i especially don't like it as a man who changed his name upon marriage. unblock Mar 2013 #130

What sticks in my craw is those Leslie Valley Mar 2013 #135