General Discussion

ElboRuum

(4,717 posts)

177. Which is the most disturbing part.

Mon Mar 11, 2013, 11:09 PM

Mar 2013

These are men who claim to know how toxic gender-based role assignment can be, specifically for men this would be obligate stoicism, bearing pain both emotional and physical without seeking help, evincing psychological independence and strength, economic self-support, etc. etc.

Yet they do not see how they are supporting that very thing by putting forth this idea that this OP is somehow self-pitying, beneath some expectation of "real man"-ness. They draw a line and expect all men worthy of the label to toe it. Failure to do so leads to mocking, derision, and dismissal.

Someone asked a question based upon their own curiosity, and has been called a troll, a self-pitying adolescent, met with derision and sarcasm, and why? Because "real men" don't ask questions like that. Real men already know.

So, at least in this case, he got the answer he was looking for. He fucked up. He posted on DU about something he was curious about but made the egregious mistake of approaching it from his own, decidedly male, perspective. And he got bounced on. Consequence. It may be a far cry from "men cannot fuck up, period", but score one in the "consequences, oh hell yeah" column on this particular occasion.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 OP

men are not allowed to fuck up ? i think that's crap JI7 Mar 2013 #1

If you are a man and you make poor choices in life, you are called a fuckup or a loser Major Nikon Mar 2013 #11

they do all the time, look at how single mothers are treated JI7 Mar 2013 #12

Single mothers are generally treated better than single fathers Major Nikon Mar 2013 #20

not from what i have seen, single fathers can leave their kids with their mother(kids grandmother) JI7 Mar 2013 #24

Men are assumed to be bad parents whether they are or not. Women get the opposite expectation. Major Nikon Mar 2013 #38

When you see them out with kids it's like they are all bettyellen Mar 2013 #181

Get better friends. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #190

Ha ha, they guys are great fun. Their wives work too hard. bettyellen Mar 2013 #211

are you able to even try to see the other point of view? snooper2 Mar 2013 #229

That men can live in a prison of THEIR OWN making by adopting outdated stereotypes? bettyellen Mar 2013 #240

I didn't think so... snooper2 Mar 2013 #242

So you're not in the vast majority that reads this as pathetic flame bait? LOL bettyellen Mar 2013 #244

+1 nt Shankapotomus Mar 2013 #304

I jumped on many a man for that (okay at least two) hfojvt Mar 2013 #216

It's a weird phenomenon! Actually the grocery crack floored me because bettyellen Mar 2013 #217

There are also women who sit at home and do virtually nothing while their husbands are wage slaves Major Nikon Mar 2013 #264

+1000. nt raccoon Mar 2013 #288

"not from what i have seen" When you are able to see things from other than your perspective... cleanhippie Mar 2013 #340

Absolutely not true at all. Single mothers are "irresponsible". Single fathers are "heroes." Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #262

I'm not really sure where the uproar is Major Nikon Mar 2013 #265

The uproar is systemic shaming. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #266

I know of no such automatic response of which you speak Major Nikon Mar 2013 #319

It's funny you say that, because just about every choice a woman makes is heavily scrutinized. Dash87 Mar 2013 #27

You're talking about the propensity of people to judge other people Major Nikon Mar 2013 #43

no, women are viewed as property in those cases, you think that's a positive for us ? JI7 Mar 2013 #54

I'm not really sure what cases you're referring Major Nikon Mar 2013 #120

Men view other men as expendable. It is primarily other men who send mostly men off to war. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #57

So do women Major Nikon Mar 2013 #113

Well, there is that pesky thing about reproductive rights. We all know that Republicans Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #123

Blame whomever you want Major Nikon Mar 2013 #127

Women cast 54% of the votes. The elected officials we have are the ones women chose. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #147

As if we have an alternative choice between one war mongering man or another. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #150

How did you fare the last time you ran for office? lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #155

I'm bazzilon to 1. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #159

Good for you. I'd sure hate to think that you were criticizing the lack of women in office... lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #165

I don't need to detail my finger lifting to validate, to you, my political commitment. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #193

Well good for you. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #196

What are you doing to keep men out of jail. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #212

You, like most DU'ers, find it easy to explain why men are in jail. They're criminals, duh. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #220

I guess I am now 0-2 hfojvt Mar 2013 #219

If we're only counting stuff like county treasurer and congress, I guess I'm zero for zero. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #222

When I ran for the waterboard hfojvt Mar 2013 #234

That's not logical treestar Mar 2013 #194

Majorities exert political power. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #198

Women are not a majority politically - they are not cohesive. treestar Mar 2013 #203

Perhaps no more so than men. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #227

Men are not a bloc either treestar Mar 2013 #327

Whether men get to fuck up or not depends entirely on their class eridani Mar 2013 #290

Money is forgiving of a lot of fuckups Major Nikon Mar 2013 #324

You're arguing the flipside of the coin. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #145

You get called a "whore." It's even worse. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #254

no, she is called left is right Mar 2013 #267

Perhaps by an individual, not by society in general Major Nikon Mar 2013 #323

+1 I know a whole lot of men you have fucked up, and are still on top. Scuba Mar 2013 #31

just look at BUsh becoming President, all the Corporate whores like Romney JI7 Mar 2013 #32

If you don't fuck up every once in a while, you're not really trying. DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #47

Not only are we allowed to fuck up. We are allowed to blame it on women... Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #260

Men bear an often crushing burden Bonobo Mar 2013 #2

Yep. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #6

Just like in this song Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #29

That was the first thing that I thought of, too WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2013 #131

Sorry, men fuck up all the time. Lex Mar 2013 #3

The OP never said they didn't Nederland Mar 2013 #8

He invented his own rule. Men fuck up all the time and often suffer very few geek tragedy Mar 2013 #73

No, I was talking about REALLY fuck up. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #90

I'm a man, for one. For another, the vast majority of households are dual income geek tragedy Mar 2013 #96

In all my 55 years of living, I've only been intimate with one couple Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #169

We start wars RobertEarl Mar 2013 #4

This should end well Fumesucker Mar 2013 #5

heh SammyWinstonJack Mar 2013 #140

Yes, being a man is easier than being a woman. JaneyVee Mar 2013 #7

Being expected to make the 'first move' (dating, etc) can't be that much fun REP Mar 2013 #9

from what i have seen this just isn't how things are anymore JI7 Mar 2013 #19

I think there's more of an expectation on men though REP Mar 2013 #25

I, apparently, was an outlier as well. Nearly every relationship that went beyond a date or two Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #52

You are correct. ElboRuum Mar 2013 #94

That's another issue men aren't allowed to discuss. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #40

there have been many women who talk about their guy not being into sex when they want JI7 Mar 2013 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #61

As If You Have ANY Standing To Lecture ANYONE About Subtlety, Here. Paladin Mar 2013 #303

Sorry. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #310

Well Done On Your Part. (nt) Paladin Mar 2013 #315

oh you NAIL it, JI7 Skittles Mar 2013 #231

If you haven't figured out by the 1,236th time how to give your woman an orgasm, Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #62

You give your woman an orgasm every time? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #68

I am a woman and the man who later became my husband pretty much had Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #93

Every time you have sex with your husband you're jumping up and down with an orgasm? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #107

Nope. Sometimes neither of us do. Sometimes one or the other of us don't. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #115

Obviously your hubby is more of a man the the OP. This is just what he's talking about. You know? Ed Suspicious Mar 2013 #138

Nope. And I think that if the OP met my husband, he would deem him less Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #149

Here's an interesting observation. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #236

A couple of days ago.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #243

Oh please. The husband who's lost interest in his wife sexually is one of the geek tragedy Mar 2013 #88

Burden of making it interesting? treestar Mar 2013 #205

It was never that way. Women have always been able to let it be known to a man geek tragedy Mar 2013 #79

On who asks whom out it is still 9/10 men asking the women Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #322

This may still be common in your age group in your area, redqueen Mar 2013 #331

From what I see with my 23 year old daughter and her friends, this is just not the case anymore. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #30

See #25 REP Mar 2013 #33

Not always true, though. Depends on the person. Dash87 Mar 2013 #36

See #25 REP Mar 2013 #37

Damn your damned signature!!! Every time it gets me. :) Ed Suspicious Mar 2013 #139

Muahahahaaa!!! Dash87 Mar 2013 #184

Why? treestar Mar 2013 #200

Rejection. It hurts. REP Mar 2013 #204

Not being asked out is the rejection for women treestar Mar 2013 #207

Ahem. I'm a chick. REP Mar 2013 #210

I still don't agree it is worse for them treestar Mar 2013 #326

Yes they do. redqueen Mar 2013 #332

Your post count implies that this isn't a troll... cbrer Mar 2013 #10

My question to you: UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #49

Not at all, cbrer Mar 2013 #98

Because most men don't feel this way. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #102

A LOT of men feel that way. theKed Mar 2013 #185

"Being a man is a subtle dance." chollybocker Mar 2013 #13

Do you have the slightest idea how difficult it is to be a woman? Iggo Mar 2013 #14

It's hard to be human. MyshkinCommaPrince Mar 2013 #15

I've never for a moment thought it difficult to be a man. My wife and I discuss the challenges of.. NRaleighLiberal Mar 2013 #16

... SammyWinstonJack Mar 2013 #148

thanks.... NRaleighLiberal Mar 2013 #164

This is a lame attempt to turn GD into the (now deceased) Meta. n/t demmiblue Mar 2013 #17

Yup olddots Mar 2013 #208

Well I asked skinner about the lack of drama on du 3.5 and he said: Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #284

We could probably all agree on how difficult it is to be a human being. enough Mar 2013 #18

It's the path to true equality. nt XRubicon Mar 2013 #26

I suppose only those who have had sex reassignment surgery know... Nederland Mar 2013 #21

I knew one and I asked 5 years post op lunasun Mar 2013 #116

Men are allowed to fuck up though. Jamastiene Mar 2013 #22

Perfect. And all the male CEOs fucking up companies and getting their bonuses. we can do it Mar 2013 #317

Not really. Being a man MineralMan Mar 2013 #23

Is this the theKed Mar 2013 #188

sorry theKed Mar 2013 #189

I am nongendered / third gendered MadrasT Mar 2013 #28

MadrasT, you are special! Sissyk Mar 2013 #44

Thank you Sissyk MadrasT Mar 2013 #48

You are very welcome. Sissyk Mar 2013 #51

Interesting perspective. Thank you. Xipe Totec Mar 2013 #114

Wow. Thank you for posting. SheilaT Mar 2013 #171

What you are Madras, is fucking awesome! bettyellen Mar 2013 #173

+1000!!! TDale313 Mar 2013 #235

On why we want to have companions quinnox Mar 2013 #34

As a new female supervisor, I think I walk a finer line than male supervisors Nikia Mar 2013 #35

and don't forget you're a bitch if you assert yourself fizzgig Mar 2013 #250

First world problems. MrsMatt Mar 2013 #39

You're right about the unrealistic expectations Warpy Mar 2013 #41

This line nails it. ElboRuum Mar 2013 #119

I disagree. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #161

Each of us has unique circumstances reflection Mar 2013 #42

being able to pee while standing up totally rocks, and it gets better from there on out... KG Mar 2013 #46

Short bathroom lines is an aspect of male privilege that I confess I LOVE. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #55

that's changing as new buildings are constructed with lots of women's stalls. Hollywood bowl has Liberal_in_LA Mar 2013 #64

Broadway theaters are way behind on this (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #65

I saw a show at an old theater in LA. During intermission, long line formed outside ladies room Liberal_in_LA Mar 2013 #72

Women can pee standing up. And they can direct it. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #66

Women get to do that too AAO Mar 2013 #218

I think mothers who have watched sons growing up have some insights. pnwmom Mar 2013 #50

Some... but no more than the father of a girl understands women Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #69

I think a caring, attention-paying father of a woman pnwmom Mar 2013 #154

Undoubtedly, but one thing I have learned... Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #199

You, also, might then be interested in this: pnwmom Mar 2013 #246

Excellent! I have copied it down, and when I get some $$ I'll buy it Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #247

Wow UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #53

If you define "cannot be discussed" as "does not agree with you," maybe. (nt) Posteritatis Mar 2013 #89

I define "not be discussed" as an instant snark fest. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #99

Again, you are speaking on behalf of one person, not men. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #125

Give it a rest. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #129

So why is it you posted it? Control-Z Mar 2013 #134

I thought it would be interesting. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #152

Sure you did. (wink, wink) n/t Control-Z Mar 2013 #197

You started the thread with a snark October Mar 2013 #175

It can and should be discussed with maturity and intelligence. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #109

Not here. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #126

Sometimes the button just needs pushing. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #174

Except for the fact that we are actually discussing it. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #195

"A man is not allowed to fuck up" Skittles Mar 2013 #56

That's not exactly what I meant. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #80

Not a single grownup man I know worris about EVER being 'cool' geek tragedy Mar 2013 #84

Always loved the dorks, nerds, and geeks. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #110

Everyone who listens to me in meat space for 5 minutes knows I'm a lifelong nerd geek tragedy Mar 2013 #112

If I told you my cat's names, you might think I am insane... Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #130

You sound like a good kind of insane. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #133

lol. Whisp Mar 2013 #202

Aw! I am giggling at both! Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #215

How old are you by the way? snooper2 Mar 2013 #232

Objection: relevance. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #293

curious to know if you were a teenager in the 50's or the 90's snooper2 Mar 2013 #344

Neither. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #345

I don't know about your world, but in mine manhood extends beyond tenth grade. (nt) Posteritatis Mar 2013 #86

Men face the burden of finding a date to their senior prom. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #106

oh horseshit Skittles Mar 2013 #230

OK, Skittles. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #272

Not only that, but we can't beat up everyone who pisses us off. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #81

That's where I got stuck too gollygee Mar 2013 #85

Why does "it's not about being the toughest guy in the room" torment you? muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #58

I became a lot more sympathetic once I had a son. tblue Mar 2013 #59

And they hate the "C-Word" joeunderdog Mar 2013 #60

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #63

Do you ever have anything constructive to add? name not needed Mar 2013 #75

You have "search" . Use it Vanje Mar 2013 #76

Good hide, and bye-bye from this thread. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #97

Interesting jury results gollygee Mar 2013 #101

great thread, well worth the read Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #67

I think you don't give women enough credit Grateful for Hope Mar 2013 #70

Apparently, Neil Young is a loser--we learned this from birth: geek tragedy Mar 2013 #71

Men are more alone than women. kwassa Mar 2013 #74

Why Identity Politics is a Dead End, Exhibit 2300 HiPointDem Mar 2013 #77

Congressmen and Senators in red states fuck up all the time ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #78

George W Bush and Dick Cheney are wealthy and free to travel the world. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #82

Well, this thread turned out to be less incendiary than what I expected. n/t UTUSN Mar 2013 #83

Good. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #299

Oh golly gee! Cleita Mar 2013 #87

Hi! gollygee Mar 2013 #92

Hi to you. Cleita Mar 2013 #95

The only one cate94 Mar 2013 #91

As 1StrongBlackMan ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2013 #100

This reads like what a boy would imagine the troubles facing men would be. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #104

Embarrassing OP- not being able to kick ass, LOL bettyellen Mar 2013 #168

I've been a man my entire adult life and I still think this OP is silly. Bucky Mar 2013 #103

I like you, Bucky. aquart Mar 2013 #111

Thank you for pinching in your farts! Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #136

Get your validation from no one but yourself, and galileoreloaded Mar 2013 #105

I don't think anyone really has any fucking clue what it's like to be anyone but themselves. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #108

lol.. like I said once before... opiate69 Mar 2013 #117

Or everyone is Jane March, having sex with Bruce Willis as he drives a r/c tank over our belly. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #263

That's the truest of all. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #121

*** Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #201

I would imagine what you meant to say here... The empressof all Mar 2013 #118

What an arrogant and clueless thing to say. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #124

"Is this why women are so critical? I think we're talking Darwin here." geek tragedy Mar 2013 #132

Fair. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #142

Again ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2013 #137

You haven't come across a situation that had you thinking about what you might have done differently UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #151

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2013 #167

Hmmm. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #292

You know what's funny? I'm a woman and sometimes I do what you just described. justiceischeap Mar 2013 #279

I like everything in your post except for one thing. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #285

I'm a web designer who has 2 weeks left at my job justiceischeap Mar 2013 #320

OK. Now I see what you mean. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #334

From my reading, most of the respondents who are disagreeing with you are men. Squinch Mar 2013 #141

You are very right. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #160

Deep seated. And yeah, you should talk to someone about that. bettyellen Mar 2013 #166

I don't need to talk to anyone macho woman. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #261

Disagreement does not necessarily mean threatened. Squinch Mar 2013 #172

might I add no one is outraged.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #176

Which is the most disturbing part. ElboRuum Mar 2013 #177

"he fucked up" lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #180

the OP is complaining about not being viewed as Cool and what a burden it is JI7 Mar 2013 #226

While I don't see that at all in the original post... ElboRuum Mar 2013 #238

oh please, this is a discussion forum certain threads will always attract more criticism JI7 Mar 2013 #241

Oh please? ElboRuum Mar 2013 #249

It is the Bill Maher "making women nod" phenomenon. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #179

Or it's that the responders are saying what they believe. Squinch Mar 2013 #182

ironically, that assessment seems to be simply be another way of policing masculinity fishwax Mar 2013 #221

I think most guys have some experience with men who say one thing while among men... lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #225

do you assume that what they're saying to men is how they really feel? fishwax Mar 2013 #228

No. Generally, the actors in question are consciously or subconsciously trying to get laid. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #233

sorry, but I think that's bunk fishwax Mar 2013 #239

So you're not nodding. I'm okay with that. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #248

Seriously... The empressof all Mar 2013 #144

These macro-observations aren't necessarily personal experience. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #153

The OP was commenting on his observation that it's hard to be a man The empressof all Mar 2013 #163

Torment, women just don't understand, men die early, men are losers, we're fuck ups, trumad Mar 2013 #122

Yeah, you missed why macho men need to use "pussy" all the time, UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #251

So I stopped using a word trumad Mar 2013 #269

I'm not in the men's club. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #274

Oh but you posted in Meta.... trumad Mar 2013 #276

What positive articles about women have you posted? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #280

Those of us with great brothers, fathers, husbands know it's a difficult job... and we appreciate midnight Mar 2013 #128

Masculine respect means that you are allowed to fuck up. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #135

You know ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #143

Are you serious? Apophis Mar 2013 #146

I'm thinking cliffordu Mar 2013 #156

#1 Stop thinking you have to have an answer for everything. bettyellen Mar 2013 #157

You are kidding, right?? cliffordu Mar 2013 #158

No, I'm dead serious. Every workplace is stunted by this BS. bettyellen Mar 2013 #162

Well thank you for clarifying this cliffordu Mar 2013 #187

Glad to help! Really guys- if you don't know please stop bettyellen Mar 2013 #206

The irony theKed Mar 2013 #213

Excuse me - I forgot this in my previous post: cliffordu Mar 2013 #255

Well not to be unsympathetic but you all ought to quit doing that. nolabear Mar 2013 #170

And being a woman is so incredibly easy? SheilaT Mar 2013 #178

Sometimes it's hard to be a woman itsrobert Mar 2013 #183

I love her UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #214

Empathy: putting yourself mentally in another's shoes. We need more of that. eom Taverner Mar 2013 #186

I suppose treestar Mar 2013 #191

Eagerly awaiting the thread on "The White Man's Burden" Morning Dew Mar 2013 #192

You've won the thread me b zola Mar 2013 #237

. Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #245

No kidding. Apophis Mar 2013 #252

Game, set, match. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #333

winning!!! La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #348

Then how come so many men fuck up if they are not allowed to? Whisp Mar 2013 #209

I resent your impliclication. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #224

any popcorn left? SmileyRose Mar 2013 #223

The poison and bile spewed in this thread make the point elegantly. nt Bonobo Mar 2013 #253

No, sometimes whining is just whining. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #337

What's that old expression.....the grass is always greener? davidn3600 Mar 2013 #256

That is because long-standing American anti-intellectualism now differentially harms young men eridani Mar 2013 #314

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #257

I'm a man. And I've read enough feminist and queer theory to know this is bullshit. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #258

I'm a woman, but I discussed your post with a man I know. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #259

lol. what a pile of crap. cali Mar 2013 #268

Trust me Cali... trumad Mar 2013 #270

whoa. just took a tour. There are some pretty disturbing posts in that group. cali Mar 2013 #300

COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS datasuspect Mar 2013 #271

OK everyone. Calm down. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #273

Bullshit.. trumad Mar 2013 #275

But I'm not in the men's club. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #278

It appears as if you just make shit up as you go along cali Mar 2013 #281

I wasn't making that up. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #286

I just want to know if this means I have to clean the toilets now Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #287

dont know about some of that.... Locrian Mar 2013 #277

I'm ftm trans Tien1985 Mar 2013 #282

thanks for a thoughtful post cali Mar 2013 #289

Thanks! Tien1985 Mar 2013 #308

I like being a guy RedstDem Mar 2013 #283

So do I. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #295

Coincidentally, this is an argument against the patriarchy. redgreenandblue Mar 2013 #291

"The patriarchy punishes men for not living up to the masculinity standards which it sets." UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #294

Women have contributed their share to keeping the patriarchy in place. redgreenandblue Mar 2013 #296

"their struggle is a mutual one" trumad Mar 2013 #297

MRA's want women to "pull their own weight? redqueen Mar 2013 #298

It depends on were you look. redgreenandblue Mar 2013 #301

I've yet to see a single legitimate complaint or organization. redqueen Mar 2013 #330

... redgreenandblue Mar 2013 #342

More patriarchy. redqueen Mar 2013 #343

Wow, dude. MrScorpio Mar 2013 #302

I'm not lamenting being privileged. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #309

Oh please spare me we can do it Mar 2013 #305

I'm going to cut this off soon. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #306

you really are a control freak, dearie. cali Mar 2013 #321

Control freak? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #328

It could be cause i am Younger then some of you Notafraidtoo Mar 2013 #307

Very good post. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #312

I'm sick of doing the asking out that's for damn sure Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #311

I'm sorry, UnrepentantLiberal, but you have a really skewed idea of how women Th1onein Mar 2013 #313

Stupid work... Tien1985 Mar 2013 #316

You know what? I can't stop thinking of things I want to say in response to your op cali Mar 2013 #318

You're right and I shouldn't have put it that way. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #338

I've never felt that it's been any more difficult to be a male than not. LanternWaste Mar 2013 #325

You're right. The only thing harder than being a white male in today's society... Orrex Mar 2013 #329

True. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #336

But what is imposing this pressure on men? Shankapotomus Mar 2013 #335

Very good point. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #339

society tries to dictate what it means to be... actslikeacarrot Mar 2013 #341

yet so many men make such poor life choices and then go on to do great things or become imp people La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #346

OK. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #347