General Discussion

mercuryblues

(16,337 posts)

102. I believe that

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 01:44 PM

Mar 2013

you believe that. Not everyone believes that. Can you see how telling women not to leave their drink unattended and somehow a drug gets slipped into it, leads to some people saying she should have known better? I mean she was taught after all, she was stupid.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/11/12/rapists-who-dont-think-theyre-rapists/

That last point is an important one. People who excuse rapists usually see that equation from the other end: "He's my friend, so he can't be a rapist." We need to reverse that equation—"He's a rapist, so he can't be my friend." Perhaps then we could begin addressing why the dictionary definition of rape is overlooked—threatening, forcing, and incapacitating for sex—in our to avoid applying the word—"rapist"—to anyone we know.

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Something I find troubling in the rape prevention discussion at DU [View all] arely staircase Mar 2013 OP

OMFG. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #1

you couldn't pick one of the options? snooper2 Mar 2013 #6

What men think of as crime prevention is vastly different than what geek tragedy Mar 2013 #20

Women don't need the advice Bay Boy Mar 2013 #21

Teen boys and teen girls both need that advice--that's general geek tragedy Mar 2013 #25

Teenage girls are well aware of the potential sufrommich Mar 2013 #33

And some older women as well pipi_k Mar 2013 #41

I didn't know you and Egalitarian were one in the same... snooper2 Mar 2013 #28

We seem to have a wide range of issues we agree on as well as more than a couple Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #170

i think the problem is the implication tha results from not fully explaining the context as you did. unblock Mar 2013 #2

yesterday arely staircase Mar 2013 #10

Why do you suppose it's only men victimizing women--i.e. not geek tragedy Mar 2013 #13

i think many (weirdo hackers) do grow up in a vaccuum arely staircase Mar 2013 #15

Many women grow up in the same vacuum. Why aren't they geek tragedy Mar 2013 #16

Because men and women are different... Bay Boy Mar 2013 #24

We're talking about sexual predators exercising power and dominance geek tragedy Mar 2013 #29

You asked: Bay Boy Mar 2013 #51

You're agreeing with the rape culture argument. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #54

erm some of them are. loli phabay Mar 2013 #26

Erm, someone (i.e. you) didn't read the article in question. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #36

How unfortunate for you that this isn't the only article on the subject on the internet mythology Mar 2013 #152

Really? HangOnKids Mar 2013 #50

It's the standard MRA argument--any time a discussion geek tragedy Mar 2013 #57

Let's see if loli answers n/t HangOnKids Mar 2013 #64

Signal has gone up to the Bat Cave. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #70

Have I told you lately BainsBane Mar 2013 #96

That sounds like the Anderson Cooper line: but, but, both sides do it! Whisp Mar 2013 #141

a) because you're a bad person by virtue of being a man. Is that the answer you were looking for? lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #129

You just ignored the context AGAIN when it was pointed out to you... bettyellen Mar 2013 #110

Sadly, my automatically assume negative intent joeglow3 Mar 2013 #93

if you want to avoid listeners making unfortunate assumptions, you have to lay the context carefully unblock Mar 2013 #133

What rubs people the wrong way gollygee Mar 2013 #136

Honestly, there is probably little discussion because ALL rational people agree it is wrong joeglow3 Mar 2013 #143

Car theft isn't tied in with shame on a cultural level or used as an instrument of control Recursion Mar 2013 #3

while true, that in no way makes rape prevention advice any less valuable arely staircase Mar 2013 #11

maybe women need alarms for their privates! boston bean Mar 2013 #169

You are oversimplifying this. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #4

Also, most robberies and muggings aren't from coworkers or dates. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #9

Excellent points, as usual. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #12

People don't consent to having their car stolen or getting beaten up Recursion Mar 2013 #14

people don't consent to let others use their cars? really? arely staircase Mar 2013 #18

this is a bit fatuous. most car theives are not acquaintances claiming they thought they had consent unblock Mar 2013 #23

i was responding to the comment that arely staircase Mar 2013 #32

this really adds nothing to your previous post. unblock Mar 2013 #43

Actually there are some grey areas around car theft from known parties Recursion Mar 2013 #55

consent makes it not car theft, not rape, etc. arely staircase Mar 2013 #104

Of course they don't consent to being mugged or robbed, either. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #35

"he didn't say 'you can't have my money'" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #46

Yes - he didn't clearly refuse to hand over his money, Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #56

part of it is that education of the would-be criminal is likely to be more effective for this crime. unblock Mar 2013 #22

I'm pretty sure that all men are taught not to rape. Xithras Mar 2013 #27

Men are not all taught what "rape" is, though Recursion Mar 2013 #31

That's the trouble pipi_k Mar 2013 #65

I don't know that it's a pathology; it's just what men (and women, for that matter) are taught Recursion Mar 2013 #68

I believe we on DU had a poster who wrote an OP to the effect of... LanternWaste Mar 2013 #77

Exactly, and that demonstrates why education is necessary BainsBane Mar 2013 #94

now THAT i believe has potential as a public awareness campaign directed at changing attitudes arely staircase Mar 2013 #105

That's a joke, right? redqueen Mar 2013 #106

notwithstanding any two cases arely staircase Mar 2013 #111

In going to disagree and say we need both... bettyellen Mar 2013 #116

As long as cops and judges, both male and female, have internalized patriarchal beliefs, redqueen Mar 2013 #118

Oh agreed, totally. bettyellen Mar 2013 #146

No, it wasn't a joke; it was a thoughtful, sincere response intended to engage in -- pacalo Mar 2013 #173

I just don't see why it has to be one or the other... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #108

Have you seen the posters from the Edmonton AB "Don't Be That Guy" poster campaign? Hestia Mar 2013 #166

It would be nice pipi_k Mar 2013 #53

People say "it's power, not sex" as if those two things are easily distinguished Recursion Mar 2013 #59

Well you have pipi_k Mar 2013 #67

Absolutely BainsBane Mar 2013 #90

the actions of others often very much play a role in the prosecution of other crimes arely staircase Mar 2013 #100

Your niece doesn't need to be told sufrommich Mar 2013 #5

advice about how to "stay safe"…. if it's a boyfriend who turns out to be abusive… advice is useless KittyWampus Mar 2013 #7

so advice to prevent stranger rape is therefore uneeded? bad? arely staircase Mar 2013 #19

It's like focusing on random mass shootings. Possibly useful, but completely irrelevant... Recursion Mar 2013 #30

except for the fact that advice to prevent stranger rape arely staircase Mar 2013 #37

no not really arely staircase Mar 2013 #44

It's an artifact of rape culture to believe that women can prevent most rapes. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #8

+1 Little Star Mar 2013 #17

+2 JustAnotherGen Mar 2013 #39

That boggles my mind. LanternWaste Mar 2013 #128

glad you asked arely staircase Mar 2013 #42

And the point goes straight over the person's head. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #45

parenting arely staircase Mar 2013 #47

It goes beyond parenting, though. Why does NY state have geek tragedy Mar 2013 #49

That's one thing I didn't like about "No means no" Recursion Mar 2013 #61

i think ny state's message to potential rapists is expressed in its penal code arely staircase Mar 2013 #72

Why does it have to be either/or joeglow3 Mar 2013 #95

What if it JustAnotherGen Mar 2013 #107

unfortunately, incestual rape arely staircase Mar 2013 #112

According to that list gollygee Mar 2013 #119

Great post... redqueen Mar 2013 #121

i don't see "never drink" on that list arely staircase Mar 2013 #125

I assume you aren't intentionally missing the point gollygee Mar 2013 #132

the existence of sexual predators clearly imposes an unfair burden on women in that regard arely staircase Mar 2013 #135

I'm still not making this clear gollygee Mar 2013 #137

i can't disagree with anything you have written arely staircase Mar 2013 #140

I don't know if lists are necessary gollygee Mar 2013 #142

well, the lists do point out the "spidey sense" arely staircase Mar 2013 #145

+ 6.023x10^23 XRubicon Mar 2013 #155

Yeah, I truly don't pipi_k Mar 2013 #34

No one came close to saying it's a sufrommich Mar 2013 #38

The problem is the assumption that the solution to reducing rape geek tragedy Mar 2013 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Mar 2013 #48

Are you for fucking real? You claim the problem is people geek tragedy Mar 2013 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Mar 2013 #78

Appalling. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #60

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #69

I was attacked here for saying that I would warn my daughters about the existence of date-rape drugs Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #58

Do you have a link? Someone attacked you for sufrommich Mar 2013 #63

I've seen that exact thing here probably dozens of times Nevernose Mar 2013 #71

"Young adults need to be taught that no means no, that drunkeness does not equal consent, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #75

Here's the thread. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #74

what you and others endlessly refuse to accept even though it has been told repeatedly that makes seabeyond Mar 2013 #62

i don't think any reasonable person believes one can be completely safe from crime. accusing me of arely staircase Mar 2013 #81

again. you did not address what i actually said. that is where the issue seems to lie. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #98

well, thanks for clearing that up arely staircase Mar 2013 #101

What do I think? I think some of our feminists enjoy trolling Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Mar 2013 #73

i don't even think many of them are actually feminists - mostly datasuspect Mar 2013 #80

Shutting down Meta, with the never-ending stream of melodramatic denunciation threads, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author JTFrog Mar 2013 #97

I was thinking the same thing XRubicon Mar 2013 #154

Data hit the nail on the head Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #172

+10000 nt XRubicon Mar 2013 #153

Bad guys do bad things... Jeff In Milwaukee Mar 2013 #76

Sound advice. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #82

good post arely staircase Mar 2013 #89

I'll be talking to my daughters about it, that's for sure. JoePhilly Mar 2013 #91

Done here. closeupready Mar 2013 #79

There is a difference between rape and car theft and no one needs to tell a woman she appleannie1 Mar 2013 #83

One issue seems to be prudence, while another issue seems to be rape. LanternWaste Mar 2013 #84

That's not rape prevention you're talking and is just general personal safety advice. Bradical79 Mar 2013 #86

no choices in this pole that have anything to do with the crux of the issue..... bettyellen Mar 2013 #87

because it leads to comments like this mercuryblues Mar 2013 #88

risk reduction on the part of a potential victim arely staircase Mar 2013 #92

I believe that mercuryblues Mar 2013 #102

I've always been happy to know my little sister is a deadly weapon Exultant Democracy Mar 2013 #99

impressive arely staircase Mar 2013 #103

There is a big difference between going to a victim Exultant Democracy Mar 2013 #109

I have a friend who's a black belt and extremely tough bettyellen Mar 2013 #114

The rape prevention movement is misguided. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #113

Disagree with "start" lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #115

Teaching women to fight back does not lower the incidence of attempted rape Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #117

Okay, then let's explore the question of what causes rape. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #120

You can alter social attitudes through education. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #122

No, it makes perfect sense and is as simplified as I can make it. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #124

You seriously think you can reduce this entire issue to that argument? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #127

Weak. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #130

That raises more questions about your qualification to be a logic professor than his application... JVS Mar 2013 #147

That's easy: There is another reason for the decline in sexual assault. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #149

But those parameters were not chosen by him. They were set by the thread. JVS Mar 2013 #151

So your logical proposal is that neither education of boys nor of girls reduces rape. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #157

That's not my logical proposal at all. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #160

One more time around the mulberry bush. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #162

Stop twisting my words. I did not say educating women was a waste of time. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #163

So "misguided and ineffective" actions are not necessarily a waste of time? lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #164

What? Go back and read what I wrote for Christ's sake. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #165

it is probably the result of educating both arely staircase Mar 2013 #123

Don't disagree. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #126

What about the men who protect women from rape/attack? RoccoR5955 Mar 2013 #131

Everyone drive safe tonight! LanternWaste Mar 2013 #134

I think the list would include a bunch of impractical "tips" gollygee Mar 2013 #138

Actually, I need to rephrase this gollygee Mar 2013 #167

Between "everyone drive safe tonight!" and "remember to wear your seat belt"... lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #156

Intent. Rex Mar 2013 #139

Encouraging potential victims to take crime prevention measures is: Zorra Mar 2013 #144

Anyone got a problem with this? Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #148

Wow, I didn't think there was that much straw in the whole country. (nt) Posteritatis Mar 2013 #150

I find this anti-rape ad troubling, do you? Or do you think it's 'helpful'? justiceischeap Mar 2013 #158

i would say it evokes many past (as in over the generations) arely staircase Mar 2013 #159

Did you happen to notice that the ad not only blames the victim justiceischeap Mar 2013 #161

I congratulate you Summer Hathaway Mar 2013 #168

Your equivelancy of locking your car doors doesn't cut it lunatica Mar 2013 #171