General Discussion

lolly

(3,248 posts)

84. I would be in favor of a graduated approach

Tue Mar 19, 2013, 11:23 AM

Mar 2013

At one time in the UK (not sure if laws have changed or not) it was legal for older teenagers (16 or 17?) to have beer or wine if they ordered it in an eating establishment with a meal. It may have been limited to 2 drinks, not sure.

This makes a lot of sense to me in several ways.

Helps show kids that alcohol can be enjoyed in moderation as part of social activities instead of having drinking as the main event.

Kids who drink can do so in public, around adults.

It might discourage the kind of binge drinking that results in all kinds of disasters. When alcohol is completely illegal, teens tend to drink away from adults, and to drink as much as possible while they have the chance.

OTOH, having a good public transportation system would help too. I wish teens didn't have to drive to get to social events.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] darkangel218 Mar 2013 OP

Well, it used to be here in NY union_maid Mar 2013 #1

Maybe we should stop going to useless wars alltogether. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #5

Yes. NY tried it. Big boon to funeral industry. aquart Mar 2013 #42

Yep! Then for a minute, NJ tried it. That was another boon to the Kahuna Mar 2013 #95

On the other hand . . . markpkessinger Mar 2013 #196

Meanwhile, other countries have it. Heywood J Mar 2013 #200

How about if we just stop Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #2

Because most us still live on planet Earth, not Fantasy Land. aquart Mar 2013 #44

Oh, right. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #139

Thanks for such a sweet reply. n/t Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #154

Alcohol is an immense social problem and alcoholism a terrbile disease, why make it worse? Coyotl Mar 2013 #3

Because sometimes people want to escape reality. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #6

So, drink poison, you say. Yeah, brilliant solution to make things worse. Coyotl Mar 2013 #13

Just because you chose to be straight age, doesn't mean everyone else does. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #37

"Do I have the right to say others shouldn't just because I don't?" Occulus Mar 2013 #171

I started drinking legally at 18 and it is not a problem for me. liberal N proud Mar 2013 #28

That's not really the issue at hand. MineralMan Mar 2013 #32

Adolescence can last until 20 or so. randome Mar 2013 #38

Yes, I understand. But Americans are deemed to be adults at 18. MineralMan Mar 2013 #54

Can't be President at that age. randome Mar 2013 #68

Neither can 34 year olds MNBrewer Mar 2013 #127

That no one is an adult in all aspects at age 18. randome Mar 2013 #131

Drinking age was 18 when I turned 18 MNBrewer Mar 2013 #142

And that means what to this debate? NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #144

That you are NOT deemed an adult in all ways upon the age of 18. randome Mar 2013 #146

No, that doesn't mean that at all NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #148

These are all state or federal restrictions on age. randome Mar 2013 #152

And you haven't shown they are reasonable either. NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #157

It wasn't my intention to show them as reasonable. They exist. randome Mar 2013 #162

The same was said of segregation in 1950. NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #163

Yes, but given the concerns expressed on this thread about physical brain development... randome Mar 2013 #167

Like I said earlier... NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #170

The population of those deaths would expand considerably loyalsister Mar 2013 #189

Lottery and bingo are both 18 in my state. xmas74 Mar 2013 #177

Huh. I'd call that 'gambling' but apparently the state doesn't. randome Mar 2013 #194

Absolutely nothing. nt City Lights Mar 2013 #149

Exactly! nt NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #150

But you can be tried as an adult at an even younger age. xmas74 Mar 2013 #158

The other items I listed DO have to do with adult responsibilities that do not accrue at 18. randome Mar 2013 #161

And which is the more "adult" responsibility? xmas74 Mar 2013 #176

More like the mid-twenties...."kids" have longer childhoods now than they ever did...! MADem Mar 2013 #215

Gosh. Prohibition. aquart Mar 2013 #47

It's reality... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #82

At 18 you are an adult. Xithras Mar 2013 #109

Not everything accrues at age 18. randome Mar 2013 #111

And those should be removed as well. Xithras Mar 2013 #130

The laws aren't intended to sleight 'law abiding and mature' 18 year olds, though. randome Mar 2013 #134

Our society makes alcohol abuse worse by hiding alcohol from the young. bluestate10 Mar 2013 #188

Is your argument that because some are not mature enough to handle it, Heywood J Mar 2013 #201

No, but I remember 45 years ago well enough to know. Coyotl Mar 2013 #210

You probably mean "changed back to" kdmorris Mar 2013 #4

A great link when they call Liberals "nanny-staters". ieoeja Mar 2013 #147

I believe that 18 year olds who're in the military can buy alcohol on base. nt raccoon Mar 2013 #7

They are? i was not aware of that. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #8

On some bases, yes. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #9

Not necessarily. Link in message text box bike man Mar 2013 #175

Bodies and brains are still developing at that age. So no. randome Mar 2013 #10

Absolutely true, has been studied and proved, that the young brain does not become fully adult.... northoftheborder Mar 2013 #88

Shit, EVERYONE is too young to be a soldier. randome Mar 2013 #90

studies show the younger a kid starts drinking the more problems in the future. i am ok with seabeyond Mar 2013 #11

Do you honestly think 18 years old dont drink? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #14

do you honestly think that is a worthwile question. how foolish is that and why would you get that seabeyond Mar 2013 #25

Yes it is a worthwhile question. How foolish is to perpetuate hypocrisy. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #27

you got from my post, i feel with the drinking age at 21... that our 18 year olds are not drinking? seabeyond Mar 2013 #33

It's not the 18 year olds who are alcoholics dkf Mar 2013 #40

first, that is not factually correct. i ahd been told a long time how well europe does. having seabeyond Mar 2013 #46

Same with 21 yr olds. dkf Mar 2013 #62

But SOME 21 year olds will have matured enough -physically and mentally- to dodge that bullet. randome Mar 2013 #65

Probably wishful thinking. dkf Mar 2013 #75

fact. hence, my choice to keep it at 21. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #91

Sorry. That is not entirely true. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #115

Well by Europe I meant France :) dkf Mar 2013 #119

"alcohol has a huge and damaging effect on human beings." darkangel218 Mar 2013 #48

banning? why, when we talk harms do the pro whatever resort to ban. no ban. and i am done seabeyond Mar 2013 #56

Good for you. I bet if there was ever a referendum, you'd be in minority. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #70

Your last line is exactly correct. For many people "one drink is one too many, bike man Mar 2013 #169

Well, the dead ones did. aquart Mar 2013 #50

Has DUI stopped since changing the age from 21 to 18?? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #59

It has reduced tremedously dsc Mar 2013 #133

Interviewed late 80s with an insurance lobby. ieoeja Mar 2013 #156

No. Changing the age from 21 to 18 always increases it. aquart Mar 2013 #160

And outright prohibition of alcohol would probably decrease DUI further laundry_queen Mar 2013 #206

As evidenced by the medical problems and low test scores of European children. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #51

my brother is a genius. test easy. like 186. fuckin genius. he is still killing himself with alcohol seabeyond Mar 2013 #60

So maybe its a genetic problem? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #72

there really is no if ands or buts about if. of course it is. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #94

So I guess the implication is that you and yours don't count. randome Mar 2013 #96

lol. i am done. another thing i learned well, living among alcoholics especially talking booze. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #98

this is confounded with many other things, including personality La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #173

I disagree. bowens43 Mar 2013 #12

Immature to handle alcohol but mature enough to die on the battle field. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #16

That breeze you felt was his comment flying over your head joeglow3 Mar 2013 #97

+1 RedstDem Mar 2013 #132

18 was legal drinking age Go Vols Mar 2013 #15

I spring breaked in New Orleans back in '95 when both I and the drinking age were 18. sadbear Mar 2013 #18

La. had a legal loophole Go Vols Mar 2013 #26

Some states allow minors, even those under 18 Mariana Mar 2013 #106

Ahh okay, so Ronnie was the one who upped the age. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #19

Yes, federal highway funds. closeupready Mar 2013 #39

18 year-olds are going to get alcohol if they want. sadbear Mar 2013 #17

+1000 darkangel218 Mar 2013 #21

they can also get meth or cocaine if they want to. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #63

And how good has this law worked so far? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #67

NO law prevents ANYONE from doing ANYTHING. randome Mar 2013 #73

Not when it comes to drinking alcohol. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #74

Maybe you're judging college dorm life by the likes of 'Animal House'? randome Mar 2013 #77

Ive lived in one in my 20s and i judge by what i saw. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #79

Some on going research plcdude Mar 2013 #105

I live in a public university college town in Texas and work on campus. sadbear Mar 2013 #164

Yes, doing those things are a part of becoming a adult. sadbear Mar 2013 #87

We can't pass a law that makes parents show their kids anything. randome Mar 2013 #89

I'm not suggesting any new laws. sadbear Mar 2013 #92

You may be legally allowed to give your kids alchohol. Mariana Mar 2013 #108

I've allowed my child the occasional sip xmas74 Mar 2013 #180

I totally agree with this approach. sadbear Mar 2013 #181

Sorry, but this is the LEAST of our problems. n/t Dawgs Mar 2013 #20

Its one of our problems. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #23

You're wrong? n/t Dawgs Mar 2013 #100

Let them drink on base in the E club. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #22

Why? Because There Aren't Enough Alcohol-Related Deaths And Injuries Already? Paladin Mar 2013 #24

Whats the difference between 18 and 21?? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #30

Change age to go to war to 21. Lex Mar 2013 #58

How about you make the argument that the age to..... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #29

Maybe i shouldve. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #34

"How about leave it up to our citizens to decide when or if they want to consume alcohol." NCTraveler Mar 2013 #43

So wanting this hypocrisy to end makes.me a libertarian? lmao!!!! darkangel218 Mar 2013 #53

"So wanting this hypocrisy to end makes.me a libertarian? lmao!!!!" NCTraveler Mar 2013 #71

Im all for that. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #76

Allowing citizens to decide on issues relating to their own bodies is a bad idea? Heywood J Mar 2013 #203

I hope you can see the difference between regulating toxins... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #213

Your harmful toxin, my occasional way to relax after a shitty day at work. Heywood J Mar 2013 #214

You compared your way to relax after a shitty day at work.... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #216

I agree. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #41

either that or raise the age.... actslikeacarrot Mar 2013 #31

Exactly. nt darkangel218 Mar 2013 #35

I agree. A glass of wine or a beer with a meal is essential, IMO. closeupready Mar 2013 #36

How about Crepuscular Mar 2013 #45

Because you know what the conservative sates would do. nt darkangel218 Mar 2013 #49

What? Crepuscular Mar 2013 #81

Conservative states would never lower the age and you know it. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #83

I don't know Crepuscular Mar 2013 #93

I don't know about that. xmas74 Mar 2013 #183

That never worked well in the past. randome Mar 2013 #52

Worked fine for me Crepuscular Mar 2013 #78

It didn't stop me, either. randome Mar 2013 #86

I grew up in Missouri. xmas74 Mar 2013 #184

And punish those that are 'early' to mature? laundry_queen Mar 2013 #207

All laws cater to the lowest common denominator. Speed limits are a good example. randome Mar 2013 #209

Oh yes, the societal upheaval laundry_queen Mar 2013 #212

Raise the age to go to war to 21. Lex Mar 2013 #55

+10000000000000000000000000000000 n/t Flying Squirrel Mar 2013 #199

I agree. kiva Mar 2013 #57

+1000 darkangel218 Mar 2013 #64

This will probably pipi_k Mar 2013 #125

The part of your brain that helps you understand the consequences of your actions Zoeisright Mar 2013 #140

Pushing 60 here too, kiva Mar 2013 #141

Oh, I agree about pipi_k Mar 2013 #197

they need to raise the BAC for DUI datasuspect Mar 2013 #61

do gooders? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #80

That's about one of the most politically incorrect things you can say, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Mar 2013 #66

Or maybe raise the military age to 21... bamacrat Mar 2013 #69

I would be in favor of a graduated approach lolly Mar 2013 #84

+1 million darkangel218 Mar 2013 #85

I'll try this again .. polly7 Mar 2013 #99

Don't you think Crepuscular Mar 2013 #126

It does seem a little odd, polly7 Mar 2013 #135

18 YEAR OLDS SHOULDNT BE GOING TO WARS EITHER leftyohiolib Mar 2013 #101

+1 By the way. Orsino Mar 2013 #110

Because you've fallen under the marketing delusion that alcohol somehow makes one stronger. randome Mar 2013 #112

Nope. Orsino Mar 2013 #128

Absolutely. And no 20 year old refrains ftom drinking because of the law. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #102

That was the argument for voting, "you're old enough to kill, but not for voting" still_one Mar 2013 #104

Before we do it, we should consult with neuroscientists. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #107

If we let them vote then they should be able to drink AngryAmish Mar 2013 #113

See post #111. randome Mar 2013 #114

Some agencies will not rent a car to anyone under 25! KamaAina Mar 2013 #117

Yes, I saw that, too! randome Mar 2013 #118

But you can be charged as an adult in a crime Go Vols Mar 2013 #123

I think 99% of us would agree that's fucked up. randome Mar 2013 #124

Make it 19 like it is in Ontario and some other places. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #116

I agree wholeheartedly. And I have two teenagers. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #120

this xmas74 Mar 2013 #186

At the height of the MADD frenzy in the early '80s, there were calls to raise the age to 25! KamaAina Mar 2013 #121

You were born in the wrong generation, Dark. nt raccoon Mar 2013 #122

Many 18-year-olds are still in high school. duffyduff Mar 2013 #129

When I was 15 and went to high school for a year in France aint_no_life_nowhere Mar 2013 #136

The best part of the 21 drinking age is it ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #137

And Crepuscular Mar 2013 #145

That only happens to an extreme minority. ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #168

Rare? Crepuscular Mar 2013 #174

I know probably 20 people who have criminal records for underage drinking. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #191

Oh my god, not this fucking stupid shit again. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #138

Just like all those dead Europeans lying on the streets over there. Heywood J Mar 2013 #204

Read what others have said about when NJ and NY 'experimented' with 18. randome Mar 2013 #205

I remember different ages for men and women skorpo Mar 2013 #143

I don't believe that most 18 year olds are mature enough yet. LiberalFighter Mar 2013 #151

Agreed. If you're old enough to sign contracts, vote, get married, go to war... Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #153

I say raise it to 25 years of age Politicalboi Mar 2013 #155

So you're fine with throwing people in jail for using an intoxicating substance? name not needed Mar 2013 #166

My son is 20 and in the service Marrah_G Mar 2013 #159

There have been numerous posts here on DU regarding the brain bike man Mar 2013 #165

i agree La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #172

it should be 18 samsingh Mar 2013 #178

As an ex-bartender I agree. Cleita Mar 2013 #179

It was 18 for a while in NJ and it didn't work Jersey Devil Mar 2013 #182

they changed it back to 18 BainsBane Mar 2013 #185

It doesn't matter! Free-dom! Free-dom! randome Mar 2013 #193

I will go even beyond that. Any responsible parent should be allowed to have bluestate10 Mar 2013 #187

Define 'responsible parent'. Or should the State do that? randome Mar 2013 #192

I have seen booze ads aimed at 12 year olds for 55 years . olddots Mar 2013 #190

What *good* comes from introducing an 18 year old to the legal system RedCappedBandit Mar 2013 #195

How about raising the legal entry age into our armed forces to 21 instead? EO-fing-M Flying Squirrel Mar 2013 #198

+100% /nt demwing Mar 2013 #202

The military argument is Tien1985 Mar 2013 #208

Maybe we should just ban it Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #211