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laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)

212. Oh yes, the societal upheaval

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 09:40 AM

Mar 2013

where I am is abhorrent. All those 18 year olds driving drunk all over the place! 'Cause they don't do it when they are 17, and they SURE don't do it when they are 21~ How DOES my province function! Hyperbole much?

When I was a teen, it was my parents' generation that drove drunk. *WE* (the 18 year olds) were educated about drunk driving in school and always had designated drivers.

How about the societal upheaval when underage drinkers get caught and end up with a record and therefore a more difficult time getting a job? I think if you compare the 2 it would be a wash.

I disagree about speed limits. Some people can't drive safely at slower speeds, some are good at driving at fast speeds, so it's not about the lowest common denominator - that's not how limits are deteremined. The speed limit is often subjective, not based on fact (according to people I knew who work in that part of gov't) but on perception or public pressure. A lot of these laws about prohibition weren't based in fact, but in the puritan agenda of the Reagan republicans.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] darkangel218 Mar 2013 OP

Well, it used to be here in NY union_maid Mar 2013 #1

Maybe we should stop going to useless wars alltogether. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #5

Yes. NY tried it. Big boon to funeral industry. aquart Mar 2013 #42

Yep! Then for a minute, NJ tried it. That was another boon to the Kahuna Mar 2013 #95

On the other hand . . . markpkessinger Mar 2013 #196

Meanwhile, other countries have it. Heywood J Mar 2013 #200

How about if we just stop Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #2

Because most us still live on planet Earth, not Fantasy Land. aquart Mar 2013 #44

Oh, right. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #139

Thanks for such a sweet reply. n/t Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #154

Alcohol is an immense social problem and alcoholism a terrbile disease, why make it worse? Coyotl Mar 2013 #3

Because sometimes people want to escape reality. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #6

So, drink poison, you say. Yeah, brilliant solution to make things worse. Coyotl Mar 2013 #13

Just because you chose to be straight age, doesn't mean everyone else does. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #37

"Do I have the right to say others shouldn't just because I don't?" Occulus Mar 2013 #171

I started drinking legally at 18 and it is not a problem for me. liberal N proud Mar 2013 #28

That's not really the issue at hand. MineralMan Mar 2013 #32

Adolescence can last until 20 or so. randome Mar 2013 #38

Yes, I understand. But Americans are deemed to be adults at 18. MineralMan Mar 2013 #54

Can't be President at that age. randome Mar 2013 #68

Neither can 34 year olds MNBrewer Mar 2013 #127

That no one is an adult in all aspects at age 18. randome Mar 2013 #131

Drinking age was 18 when I turned 18 MNBrewer Mar 2013 #142

And that means what to this debate? NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #144

That you are NOT deemed an adult in all ways upon the age of 18. randome Mar 2013 #146

No, that doesn't mean that at all NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #148

These are all state or federal restrictions on age. randome Mar 2013 #152

And you haven't shown they are reasonable either. NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #157

It wasn't my intention to show them as reasonable. They exist. randome Mar 2013 #162

The same was said of segregation in 1950. NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #163

Yes, but given the concerns expressed on this thread about physical brain development... randome Mar 2013 #167

Like I said earlier... NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #170

The population of those deaths would expand considerably loyalsister Mar 2013 #189

Lottery and bingo are both 18 in my state. xmas74 Mar 2013 #177

Huh. I'd call that 'gambling' but apparently the state doesn't. randome Mar 2013 #194

Absolutely nothing. nt City Lights Mar 2013 #149

Exactly! nt NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #150

But you can be tried as an adult at an even younger age. xmas74 Mar 2013 #158

The other items I listed DO have to do with adult responsibilities that do not accrue at 18. randome Mar 2013 #161

And which is the more "adult" responsibility? xmas74 Mar 2013 #176

More like the mid-twenties...."kids" have longer childhoods now than they ever did...! MADem Mar 2013 #215

Gosh. Prohibition. aquart Mar 2013 #47

It's reality... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #82

At 18 you are an adult. Xithras Mar 2013 #109

Not everything accrues at age 18. randome Mar 2013 #111

And those should be removed as well. Xithras Mar 2013 #130

The laws aren't intended to sleight 'law abiding and mature' 18 year olds, though. randome Mar 2013 #134

Our society makes alcohol abuse worse by hiding alcohol from the young. bluestate10 Mar 2013 #188

Is your argument that because some are not mature enough to handle it, Heywood J Mar 2013 #201

No, but I remember 45 years ago well enough to know. Coyotl Mar 2013 #210

You probably mean "changed back to" kdmorris Mar 2013 #4

A great link when they call Liberals "nanny-staters". ieoeja Mar 2013 #147

I believe that 18 year olds who're in the military can buy alcohol on base. nt raccoon Mar 2013 #7

They are? i was not aware of that. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #8

On some bases, yes. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #9

Not necessarily. Link in message text box bike man Mar 2013 #175

Bodies and brains are still developing at that age. So no. randome Mar 2013 #10

Absolutely true, has been studied and proved, that the young brain does not become fully adult.... northoftheborder Mar 2013 #88

Shit, EVERYONE is too young to be a soldier. randome Mar 2013 #90

studies show the younger a kid starts drinking the more problems in the future. i am ok with seabeyond Mar 2013 #11

Do you honestly think 18 years old dont drink? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #14

do you honestly think that is a worthwile question. how foolish is that and why would you get that seabeyond Mar 2013 #25

Yes it is a worthwhile question. How foolish is to perpetuate hypocrisy. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #27

you got from my post, i feel with the drinking age at 21... that our 18 year olds are not drinking? seabeyond Mar 2013 #33

It's not the 18 year olds who are alcoholics dkf Mar 2013 #40

first, that is not factually correct. i ahd been told a long time how well europe does. having seabeyond Mar 2013 #46

Same with 21 yr olds. dkf Mar 2013 #62

But SOME 21 year olds will have matured enough -physically and mentally- to dodge that bullet. randome Mar 2013 #65

Probably wishful thinking. dkf Mar 2013 #75

fact. hence, my choice to keep it at 21. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #91

Sorry. That is not entirely true. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #115

Well by Europe I meant France :) dkf Mar 2013 #119

"alcohol has a huge and damaging effect on human beings." darkangel218 Mar 2013 #48

banning? why, when we talk harms do the pro whatever resort to ban. no ban. and i am done seabeyond Mar 2013 #56

Good for you. I bet if there was ever a referendum, you'd be in minority. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #70

Your last line is exactly correct. For many people "one drink is one too many, bike man Mar 2013 #169

Well, the dead ones did. aquart Mar 2013 #50

Has DUI stopped since changing the age from 21 to 18?? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #59

It has reduced tremedously dsc Mar 2013 #133

Interviewed late 80s with an insurance lobby. ieoeja Mar 2013 #156

No. Changing the age from 21 to 18 always increases it. aquart Mar 2013 #160

And outright prohibition of alcohol would probably decrease DUI further laundry_queen Mar 2013 #206

As evidenced by the medical problems and low test scores of European children. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #51

my brother is a genius. test easy. like 186. fuckin genius. he is still killing himself with alcohol seabeyond Mar 2013 #60

So maybe its a genetic problem? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #72

there really is no if ands or buts about if. of course it is. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #94

So I guess the implication is that you and yours don't count. randome Mar 2013 #96

lol. i am done. another thing i learned well, living among alcoholics especially talking booze. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #98

this is confounded with many other things, including personality La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #173

I disagree. bowens43 Mar 2013 #12

Immature to handle alcohol but mature enough to die on the battle field. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #16

That breeze you felt was his comment flying over your head joeglow3 Mar 2013 #97

+1 RedstDem Mar 2013 #132

18 was legal drinking age Go Vols Mar 2013 #15

I spring breaked in New Orleans back in '95 when both I and the drinking age were 18. sadbear Mar 2013 #18

La. had a legal loophole Go Vols Mar 2013 #26

Some states allow minors, even those under 18 Mariana Mar 2013 #106

Ahh okay, so Ronnie was the one who upped the age. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #19

Yes, federal highway funds. closeupready Mar 2013 #39

18 year-olds are going to get alcohol if they want. sadbear Mar 2013 #17

+1000 darkangel218 Mar 2013 #21

they can also get meth or cocaine if they want to. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #63

And how good has this law worked so far? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #67

NO law prevents ANYONE from doing ANYTHING. randome Mar 2013 #73

Not when it comes to drinking alcohol. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #74

Maybe you're judging college dorm life by the likes of 'Animal House'? randome Mar 2013 #77

Ive lived in one in my 20s and i judge by what i saw. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #79

Some on going research plcdude Mar 2013 #105

I live in a public university college town in Texas and work on campus. sadbear Mar 2013 #164

Yes, doing those things are a part of becoming a adult. sadbear Mar 2013 #87

We can't pass a law that makes parents show their kids anything. randome Mar 2013 #89

I'm not suggesting any new laws. sadbear Mar 2013 #92

You may be legally allowed to give your kids alchohol. Mariana Mar 2013 #108

I've allowed my child the occasional sip xmas74 Mar 2013 #180

I totally agree with this approach. sadbear Mar 2013 #181

Sorry, but this is the LEAST of our problems. n/t Dawgs Mar 2013 #20

Its one of our problems. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #23

You're wrong? n/t Dawgs Mar 2013 #100

Let them drink on base in the E club. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #22

Why? Because There Aren't Enough Alcohol-Related Deaths And Injuries Already? Paladin Mar 2013 #24

Whats the difference between 18 and 21?? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #30

Change age to go to war to 21. Lex Mar 2013 #58

How about you make the argument that the age to..... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #29

Maybe i shouldve. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #34

"How about leave it up to our citizens to decide when or if they want to consume alcohol." NCTraveler Mar 2013 #43

So wanting this hypocrisy to end makes.me a libertarian? lmao!!!! darkangel218 Mar 2013 #53

"So wanting this hypocrisy to end makes.me a libertarian? lmao!!!!" NCTraveler Mar 2013 #71

Im all for that. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #76

Allowing citizens to decide on issues relating to their own bodies is a bad idea? Heywood J Mar 2013 #203

I hope you can see the difference between regulating toxins... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #213

Your harmful toxin, my occasional way to relax after a shitty day at work. Heywood J Mar 2013 #214

You compared your way to relax after a shitty day at work.... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #216

I agree. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #41

either that or raise the age.... actslikeacarrot Mar 2013 #31

Exactly. nt darkangel218 Mar 2013 #35

I agree. A glass of wine or a beer with a meal is essential, IMO. closeupready Mar 2013 #36

How about Crepuscular Mar 2013 #45

Because you know what the conservative sates would do. nt darkangel218 Mar 2013 #49

What? Crepuscular Mar 2013 #81

Conservative states would never lower the age and you know it. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #83

I don't know Crepuscular Mar 2013 #93

I don't know about that. xmas74 Mar 2013 #183

That never worked well in the past. randome Mar 2013 #52

Worked fine for me Crepuscular Mar 2013 #78

It didn't stop me, either. randome Mar 2013 #86

I grew up in Missouri. xmas74 Mar 2013 #184

And punish those that are 'early' to mature? laundry_queen Mar 2013 #207

All laws cater to the lowest common denominator. Speed limits are a good example. randome Mar 2013 #209

Oh yes, the societal upheaval laundry_queen Mar 2013 #212

Raise the age to go to war to 21. Lex Mar 2013 #55

+10000000000000000000000000000000 n/t Flying Squirrel Mar 2013 #199

I agree. kiva Mar 2013 #57

+1000 darkangel218 Mar 2013 #64

This will probably pipi_k Mar 2013 #125

The part of your brain that helps you understand the consequences of your actions Zoeisright Mar 2013 #140

Pushing 60 here too, kiva Mar 2013 #141

Oh, I agree about pipi_k Mar 2013 #197

they need to raise the BAC for DUI datasuspect Mar 2013 #61

do gooders? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #80

That's about one of the most politically incorrect things you can say, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Mar 2013 #66

Or maybe raise the military age to 21... bamacrat Mar 2013 #69

I would be in favor of a graduated approach lolly Mar 2013 #84

+1 million darkangel218 Mar 2013 #85

I'll try this again .. polly7 Mar 2013 #99

Don't you think Crepuscular Mar 2013 #126

It does seem a little odd, polly7 Mar 2013 #135

18 YEAR OLDS SHOULDNT BE GOING TO WARS EITHER leftyohiolib Mar 2013 #101

+1 By the way. Orsino Mar 2013 #110

Because you've fallen under the marketing delusion that alcohol somehow makes one stronger. randome Mar 2013 #112

Nope. Orsino Mar 2013 #128

Absolutely. And no 20 year old refrains ftom drinking because of the law. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #102

That was the argument for voting, "you're old enough to kill, but not for voting" still_one Mar 2013 #104

Before we do it, we should consult with neuroscientists. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #107

If we let them vote then they should be able to drink AngryAmish Mar 2013 #113

See post #111. randome Mar 2013 #114

Some agencies will not rent a car to anyone under 25! KamaAina Mar 2013 #117

Yes, I saw that, too! randome Mar 2013 #118

But you can be charged as an adult in a crime Go Vols Mar 2013 #123

I think 99% of us would agree that's fucked up. randome Mar 2013 #124

Make it 19 like it is in Ontario and some other places. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #116

I agree wholeheartedly. And I have two teenagers. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #120

this xmas74 Mar 2013 #186

At the height of the MADD frenzy in the early '80s, there were calls to raise the age to 25! KamaAina Mar 2013 #121

You were born in the wrong generation, Dark. nt raccoon Mar 2013 #122

Many 18-year-olds are still in high school. duffyduff Mar 2013 #129

When I was 15 and went to high school for a year in France aint_no_life_nowhere Mar 2013 #136

The best part of the 21 drinking age is it ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #137

And Crepuscular Mar 2013 #145

That only happens to an extreme minority. ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #168

Rare? Crepuscular Mar 2013 #174

I know probably 20 people who have criminal records for underage drinking. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #191

Oh my god, not this fucking stupid shit again. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #138

Just like all those dead Europeans lying on the streets over there. Heywood J Mar 2013 #204

Read what others have said about when NJ and NY 'experimented' with 18. randome Mar 2013 #205

I remember different ages for men and women skorpo Mar 2013 #143

I don't believe that most 18 year olds are mature enough yet. LiberalFighter Mar 2013 #151

Agreed. If you're old enough to sign contracts, vote, get married, go to war... Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #153

I say raise it to 25 years of age Politicalboi Mar 2013 #155

So you're fine with throwing people in jail for using an intoxicating substance? name not needed Mar 2013 #166

My son is 20 and in the service Marrah_G Mar 2013 #159

There have been numerous posts here on DU regarding the brain bike man Mar 2013 #165

i agree La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #172

it should be 18 samsingh Mar 2013 #178

As an ex-bartender I agree. Cleita Mar 2013 #179

It was 18 for a while in NJ and it didn't work Jersey Devil Mar 2013 #182

they changed it back to 18 BainsBane Mar 2013 #185

It doesn't matter! Free-dom! Free-dom! randome Mar 2013 #193

I will go even beyond that. Any responsible parent should be allowed to have bluestate10 Mar 2013 #187

Define 'responsible parent'. Or should the State do that? randome Mar 2013 #192

I have seen booze ads aimed at 12 year olds for 55 years . olddots Mar 2013 #190

What *good* comes from introducing an 18 year old to the legal system RedCappedBandit Mar 2013 #195

How about raising the legal entry age into our armed forces to 21 instead? EO-fing-M Flying Squirrel Mar 2013 #198

+100% /nt demwing Mar 2013 #202

The military argument is Tien1985 Mar 2013 #208

Maybe we should just ban it Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #211