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MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
125. You don't have to recite the pledge of allegiance...
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 03:19 PM
Mar 2013

and you don't have to believe in any of the values of the US to be a citizen. Even affirming and swearing an oath of citizenship has nothing to do with belief. As long as you serve, the US doesn't care what you believe. As long as you follow the laws, the US doesn't care if you don't believe the morality behind them. Belief systems, on the other hand, are quite different. In theory, at least, what you believe matters in belief systems. That's what they're built on.

Religions and political bodies are far too different for any good sort of analogy.

Very nicely said. marybourg Mar 2013 #1
Sorry--not off the hook zentrum Mar 2013 #111
I think you replied to the wrong post or the wrong person. marybourg Mar 2013 #113
You need to get over yourself. I don't care what religion you are people always give southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #128
But it's so much easier to feel morally superior when one is sitting at the keyboard. Bake Mar 2013 #186
yes it is. How telling as we sit here on our keyboards. southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #187
Ouch. Bake Mar 2013 #188
LOL your ok southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #189
Who died and made you God and arbiter of whose sense of community is good and whose 1monster Mar 2013 #131
I could suggest a home for your "hook", but that might result in a hidden post. 11 Bravo Mar 2013 #203
Exactly and the people with the butts in the pews are sincere in their beliefs. Warpy Mar 2013 #2
But the origins of Anglicanism are very silly, let's face it. If Ann had just agreed to have sex Squinch Mar 2013 #102
Or if the Pope weren't hostage to wife #1's nephew JNelson6563 Mar 2013 #123
Lol! But it would have saved her a WHOLE lotta trouble if she hadn't held out. Squinch Mar 2013 #130
not for a young woman looking to make a good marriage SemperEadem Mar 2013 #145
That's probably an oversimplification Warpy Mar 2013 #133
I am fascinated by the Anglicans. I have friends who are devout Anglicans, one of CTyankee Mar 2013 #191
No question. I was just commenting on the origins of Anglicanism, not the quality of its Squinch Mar 2013 #193
It's funny, but I never would think to discuss the roots of my friend's church. If CTyankee Mar 2013 #194
Those attacking Catholics here are teabaggers that somehow think they're progressives. Gman Mar 2013 #3
Right, just forget about the institutionalized homophobia, misogyny & pedophilia. baldguy Mar 2013 #21
Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #37
Actually, "real liberals and progressive" can see the difference between the Vatican (The Church) & uppityperson Mar 2013 #44
That shit goes on in every church... wickerwoman Mar 2013 #68
not true at all Bradical79 Mar 2013 #101
Not all organisations have been caught, but most of them have some skeletons in the closet. wickerwoman Mar 2013 #163
Well an awful lot of them do. The US Government eg, has been supporting racism, homophobia, torture, sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #197
but bald guy, it is TRADITION!!! Skittles Mar 2013 #151
It's just another brand of mythology RoccoR5955 Mar 2013 #22
That's true amuse bouche Mar 2013 #53
Much as we use philosophy, politics, economics, the arts, and a whole host of imaginary constructs LanternWaste Mar 2013 #126
And mythology is bad...? YoungDemCA Mar 2013 #137
No, the arts are good. RoccoR5955 Mar 2013 #161
Erm, what? Apophis Mar 2013 #33
Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #38
Hahaha amuse bouche Mar 2013 #48
What is your intent with a rude post like that? Are you trying to rhett o rick Mar 2013 #104
You are wrong, Gman. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #116
Great post! kwassa Mar 2013 #4
well said n/t pamela Mar 2013 #5
Well said. Aristus Mar 2013 #6
And some of that money goes to organizations like NOM, why isn't that acknowledged as well? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #7
Nice post and explains a lot...things I never thought of...but wondered. nt Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #8
Great post! Richardo Mar 2013 #9
Yeah. The parishes are all lilly white clean places of community MichiganVote Mar 2013 #10
You're late for your Remedial Reading class. Richardo Mar 2013 #12
Because the OP said that, right? Posteritatis Mar 2013 #13
Same with Jews and synagogues The Straight Story Mar 2013 #35
Or Muslims and mosques oberliner Mar 2013 #57
The overwhelmingly vast majority of them are, yes. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #166
"No lie lives forever" Martin Luther King MichiganVote Mar 2013 #175
Thank you. shenmue Mar 2013 #11
No, and I don't care either. xtraxritical Mar 2013 #14
I do care, because some of that money goes to harm people I love. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #15
A good part of it goes to serve the poor BainsBane Mar 2013 #25
And that makes up for the evil it does? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #27
No, it is in addition BainsBane Mar 2013 #30
I don't know, depends on where the parish is located, some of the money could have been sent to... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #34
that could be true BainsBane Mar 2013 #40
Basically you are saying that because it helps some people, we should ignore what it does to others? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #51
Not at all BainsBane Mar 2013 #55
How is the church supposed to run? hrmjustin Mar 2013 #71
First off, it depends on the parish and diocese, along with the economic level of the two... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #75
Well sometimes in parishes you have a second collection and thatgoes straight to the bishop. hrmjustin Mar 2013 #77
I wonder if that's recent or varies by parish... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #80
If you are an offical member of a parish you can request envelopes so that you can keep track for hrmjustin Mar 2013 #81
For the past ten years No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #88
I care a lot about poverty. Having done the research, I know that the best way... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #47
I agree with your views on the church hierarchy BainsBane Mar 2013 #54
So when will those good Catholics you mention stop funding the fight against birth control? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #58
why do you think they are? BainsBane Mar 2013 #61
Except for when the Archdiocese asks for some of that money as well... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #62
I don't know how that works BainsBane Mar 2013 #63
Most of the books are closed, but to give an example of Archdiocese malfeance... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #66
seriously? BainsBane Mar 2013 #70
Archdiocese of St. Louis... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #72
I'm going to Google BainsBane Mar 2013 #73
Is this the one? BainsBane Mar 2013 #74
Yep, pretty messed up, isn't it? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #78
Totally fucked up BainsBane Mar 2013 #79
Pastors are not always as generous, as those that give in the collection baskets! basspro1o1 Mar 2013 #134
So the Catholic hierarchy must get their money straight from God then? progressoid Mar 2013 #98
Oh no, they have enormous investments BainsBane Mar 2013 #114
*snort* Yes - they've been fleecing the flock for centuries. progressoid Mar 2013 #118
my mother BainsBane Mar 2013 #127
65% of the funds Catholic Charities uses comes from Federal Tax revenues, not the Church Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #108
And that's the problem. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #45
thank you for your post and your personal story. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #16
(OT) And just where have you been, missy? Ruby the Liberal Mar 2013 #17
I've been readin' and contemplatin'. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #24
To me, it's like the grange here in rural Colorado... likesmountains 52 Mar 2013 #18
That's a very nice comparison. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #29
The problem is when they force their views on everyone else. justice1 Mar 2013 #19
I imagine he'd be doing that no matter what religion he was. Richardo Mar 2013 #23
I also am an ex-Catholic ybbor Mar 2013 #20
"It seems to me that the Church has regressed to a more intolerant doctrine, perhaps to try... scarletwoman Mar 2013 #28
I feel that is the gist of it. I remember seeing the nuns and layman standing outside the prison freshwest Mar 2013 #86
Regression Tree-Hugger Mar 2013 #107
I always thought it was a down payment on an apt. in Heaven... Really! busterbrown Mar 2013 #26
Agreed. davidthegnome Mar 2013 #31
You do blame the whole family if they knew he was abusing the dog.... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #59
Perhaps it was a poor analogy davidthegnome Mar 2013 #95
Excellent post! Thank you for writing it! scarletwoman Mar 2013 #140
So, why not keep all the money collected at the local level and not send any up the hierarchy? nt Jerry442 Mar 2013 #32
It doesn't work that way. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #150
At some point someone has to write a check. What if they didn't? NT Jerry442 Mar 2013 #159
The money still needs to be paid. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #184
the grass roots Catholics.... maindawg Mar 2013 #36
Thank you. 840high Mar 2013 #39
Hear! Hear! ReRe Mar 2013 #41
Good post, I think you are expressing the feelings of many Catholics, practicing or not. mountain grammy Mar 2013 #42
Apparently your local preist didn't fancy you as a sexual target, you're one of the lucky ones! DrewFlorida Mar 2013 #43
'one of the lucky ones' You make it seem like like abuse is the rule, not the exception. onehandle Mar 2013 #49
Oh you think the Catholics you know would just go around telling you they were raped? DrewFlorida Mar 2013 #56
It's not an "attack" and it's not "absurd" MellowDem Mar 2013 #46
I find a great deal of what my government does really quite appalling. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #52
Taxes are involuntary, governments are necessary, analogy is stupid. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #60
Let me deconstruct this terrible analogy again... MellowDem Mar 2013 #67
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are ,,, westerebus Mar 2013 #85
You don't have to recite the pledge of allegiance... MellowDem Mar 2013 #125
You can simply go through the motions. westerebus Mar 2013 #154
You can... MellowDem Mar 2013 #164
Excommunication didn't seem to both Henry VIII . He founded the Church of England. westerebus Mar 2013 #173
THANK you. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #120
And I am compelled to pay those taxes for shit I hate and I speak out about the crap Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #167
What a wonderful post! Tumbulu Mar 2013 #50
Well said goldent Mar 2013 #64
Why do they "put money in the collection plate"? Unless the practice is less than universal, AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #65
What you are talking about is so 1940's. No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #87
It's still done. They'll even send you a tax statement each year. JVS Mar 2013 #93
Thanks. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #97
Are you actually claiming that a list of names is posted No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #129
no. I'm saying that envelopes are not some relic from 1940. JVS Mar 2013 #135
Of course not. I replied to the first sentence and subject of the comment re No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #139
If it involves getting money, most congregations will make it as convenient as humanly possible. JVS Mar 2013 #142
Your first paragraph is exactly why people shouldn't donate their money. Moses2SandyKoufax Mar 2013 #69
What most people don't realize about the RCC is that most of it's American wealth hrmjustin Mar 2013 #76
More an incentive to starve the beast then, that way at least they won't have money to spare... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #84
Yes. If there were a God and he read DU, He would be sick of this shit, too. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #82
The Vatican is worth 500 billion dollars. They could fund every parish without tithing. Lint Head Mar 2013 #83
Religious gatherings will always represent community. Kurovski Mar 2013 #89
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #90
When I was younger, our parish priest had a reputation as a real tightwad. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #91
That's right. It's the folks who point out the curruption, hatred and bigotry that those dollars... Walk away Mar 2013 #92
This is what we've devolved to? Leaving money in the collection plate is now controversial? tritsofme Mar 2013 #94
At least in part to partially finance relocation of pedophile priests. The Link Mar 2013 #96
So we should excuse them because they don't know where the money goes? (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #99
While I am no longer Catholic, I agree with you Fresh_Start Mar 2013 #100
Thank you for saying that. timdog44 Mar 2013 #136
You cannot deny, however, that some of that money is used in unsavory ways justiceischeap Mar 2013 #103
I appreciate your post. I would be interested in knowing how much of the dollar that goes rhett o rick Mar 2013 #105
so why do you need the church? Bradical79 Mar 2013 #106
I'm a Catholic-church-going atheist. I put money in the collection plate (actually my kids do) for Texas Lawyer Mar 2013 #109
You response is almost too reasonable No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #124
I thought it was guilt and expectation Gore1FL Mar 2013 #110
I have little love for... AnneD Mar 2013 #112
How does donating to a group that funds fights against LGBT rights make you a good person? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #168
I give in kind..... AnneD Mar 2013 #174
So basically you volunteer time or material to your local parish so they don't have to spend money.. Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #178
Money still goes to Rome angryjames Mar 2013 #115
Isn't that special. Still, the Church had plenty of money to fight for Prop 8, though. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #117
Thanks to the kind donations of DU members. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #169
Uh huh. Sure. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #119
Well said. Hekate Mar 2013 #121
One of the most poignant moments of my life KamaAina Mar 2013 #122
I didn't realize people were doing that. But I don't read Catholic bashing threads. MissMarple Mar 2013 #132
There is a relatively small but vocal number of people (here and elsewhere)... YoungDemCA Mar 2013 #138
luckily I have most of them on ignore by now liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #141
I never used Ignore until today No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #143
Is the answer "Jesus"? Brickbat Mar 2013 #144
No. They put money in, because if they don't, the Big Sky Man will send them... harmonicon Mar 2013 #146
Are there any DUers who attend mass? loyalsister Mar 2013 #147
Hi loyalsister - I attend mass...at our church there is a fairly wide mix of elderly, young, etc. Pendrench Mar 2013 #179
Thank you loyalsister Mar 2013 #183
No problem - if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer the best I can :) Pendrench Mar 2013 #185
to make themselves feel better ? 4 t 4 Mar 2013 #148
For a long time, I didn't give, out of protest. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #149
DU has changed in the last few years TomClash Mar 2013 #152
Why is it that the extremes in every group are always the loudest? liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #153
I've tried extreme rebuttal cartach Mar 2013 #158
LGBT advocates, pro-choice and pro-contraception activists are extremists now? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #170
Thank you for a very nice post . . . TomClash Mar 2013 #172
What kills me MFrohike Mar 2013 #155
You nailed it in your last sentence. corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #180
Just as a shopper at Walmart isnt thinking quakerboy Mar 2013 #156
Upkeep of their parish church? cartach Mar 2013 #157
RE upkeep of parish church No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #165
Do you ever wonder why the vatican doesn't help? Marrah_G Mar 2013 #196
Educate yourself No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #198
great answer Marrah_G Mar 2013 #199
And still they attack the church here without... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #160
I'm still counted among those 1.2 billion, and I'm sick of people pulling that number... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #171
True, but take out those who left and... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #190
I doubt half that number are practicing Catholics. Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #192
Half of those clamoring about church donations probably support & invest in Wall St. raouldukelives Mar 2013 #162
Whatever the subjective intention... Deep13 Mar 2013 #176
To Get to the Other Side? cap Mar 2013 #177
No need to say "sorry" on my account. Your post made me chuckle. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #181
Love it. Not bad--pretty darn funny--gotta pay to play! corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #182
interesting that the rule against religious posts in GD.. Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #195
My OP was posted last week when the "big news" exception for religion threads in GD was in effect. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #200
Every Protestant Church I've attended Passed The Collection Plate Around Too! TheBlackAdder Mar 2013 #201
Yes, of course. The only reason I wrote my OP (last week) about Catholics in particular, scarletwoman Mar 2013 #202
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