General Discussion

Warpy

(114,758 posts)

133. That's probably an oversimplification

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 04:44 PM

Mar 2013

After all, she could have been forced. Henry had the means to throw her family off their lands, impoverish them, and keep them from all but the meanest itinerant labor. Her sister had borne five children for Henry during their affair and had been well taken care of. There was no reason for her to hold out for marriage, not with the precedence of another of Henry's illegitimate sons being inserted into the lineage.

The truth was that he was sick of a system whereby any of his decisions could be called into question by the church, whose officials were controlled by what he saw as a foreign power. In other words, he wanted to be the monarch of England and everyone in it, including all the vassals of Rome.

It was the question of a divine right king who wanted all the power, who was sick of answering to a bunch of bishops, and who wanted a free hand in his own country.

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Do you know why Catholics put money in the collection plate at Sunday mass? [View all] scarletwoman Mar 2013 OP

Very nicely said. marybourg Mar 2013 #1

Sorry--not off the hook zentrum Mar 2013 #111

I think you replied to the wrong post or the wrong person. marybourg Mar 2013 #113

You need to get over yourself. I don't care what religion you are people always give southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #128

But it's so much easier to feel morally superior when one is sitting at the keyboard. Bake Mar 2013 #186

yes it is. How telling as we sit here on our keyboards. southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #187

Ouch. Bake Mar 2013 #188

LOL your ok southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #189

Who died and made you God and arbiter of whose sense of community is good and whose 1monster Mar 2013 #131

I could suggest a home for your "hook", but that might result in a hidden post. 11 Bravo Mar 2013 #203

Exactly and the people with the butts in the pews are sincere in their beliefs. Warpy Mar 2013 #2

But the origins of Anglicanism are very silly, let's face it. If Ann had just agreed to have sex Squinch Mar 2013 #102

Or if the Pope weren't hostage to wife #1's nephew JNelson6563 Mar 2013 #123

Lol! But it would have saved her a WHOLE lotta trouble if she hadn't held out. Squinch Mar 2013 #130

not for a young woman looking to make a good marriage SemperEadem Mar 2013 #145

That's probably an oversimplification Warpy Mar 2013 #133

I am fascinated by the Anglicans. I have friends who are devout Anglicans, one of CTyankee Mar 2013 #191

No question. I was just commenting on the origins of Anglicanism, not the quality of its Squinch Mar 2013 #193

It's funny, but I never would think to discuss the roots of my friend's church. If CTyankee Mar 2013 #194

Those attacking Catholics here are teabaggers that somehow think they're progressives. Gman Mar 2013 #3

Right, just forget about the institutionalized homophobia, misogyny & pedophilia. baldguy Mar 2013 #21

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #37

Actually, "real liberals and progressive" can see the difference between the Vatican (The Church) & uppityperson Mar 2013 #44

That shit goes on in every church... wickerwoman Mar 2013 #68

not true at all Bradical79 Mar 2013 #101

Not all organisations have been caught, but most of them have some skeletons in the closet. wickerwoman Mar 2013 #163

Well an awful lot of them do. The US Government eg, has been supporting racism, homophobia, torture, sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #197

but bald guy, it is TRADITION!!! Skittles Mar 2013 #151

It's just another brand of mythology RoccoR5955 Mar 2013 #22

That's true amuse bouche Mar 2013 #53

Much as we use philosophy, politics, economics, the arts, and a whole host of imaginary constructs LanternWaste Mar 2013 #126

And mythology is bad...? YoungDemCA Mar 2013 #137

No, the arts are good. RoccoR5955 Mar 2013 #161

Erm, what? Apophis Mar 2013 #33

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #38

Hahaha amuse bouche Mar 2013 #48

What is your intent with a rude post like that? Are you trying to rhett o rick Mar 2013 #104

You are wrong, Gman. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #116

Great post! kwassa Mar 2013 #4

well said n/t pamela Mar 2013 #5

Well said. Aristus Mar 2013 #6

And some of that money goes to organizations like NOM, why isn't that acknowledged as well? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #7

Nice post and explains a lot...things I never thought of...but wondered. nt Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #8

Great post! Richardo Mar 2013 #9

Yeah. The parishes are all lilly white clean places of community MichiganVote Mar 2013 #10

You're late for your Remedial Reading class. Richardo Mar 2013 #12

Because the OP said that, right? Posteritatis Mar 2013 #13

Same with Jews and synagogues The Straight Story Mar 2013 #35

Or Muslims and mosques oberliner Mar 2013 #57

The overwhelmingly vast majority of them are, yes. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #166

"No lie lives forever" Martin Luther King MichiganVote Mar 2013 #175

Thank you. shenmue Mar 2013 #11

No, and I don't care either. xtraxritical Mar 2013 #14

I do care, because some of that money goes to harm people I love. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #15

A good part of it goes to serve the poor BainsBane Mar 2013 #25

And that makes up for the evil it does? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #27

No, it is in addition BainsBane Mar 2013 #30

I don't know, depends on where the parish is located, some of the money could have been sent to... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #34

that could be true BainsBane Mar 2013 #40

Basically you are saying that because it helps some people, we should ignore what it does to others? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #51

Not at all BainsBane Mar 2013 #55

How is the church supposed to run? hrmjustin Mar 2013 #71

First off, it depends on the parish and diocese, along with the economic level of the two... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #75

Well sometimes in parishes you have a second collection and thatgoes straight to the bishop. hrmjustin Mar 2013 #77

I wonder if that's recent or varies by parish... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #80

If you are an offical member of a parish you can request envelopes so that you can keep track for hrmjustin Mar 2013 #81

For the past ten years No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #88

I care a lot about poverty. Having done the research, I know that the best way... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #47

I agree with your views on the church hierarchy BainsBane Mar 2013 #54

So when will those good Catholics you mention stop funding the fight against birth control? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #58

why do you think they are? BainsBane Mar 2013 #61

Except for when the Archdiocese asks for some of that money as well... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #62

I don't know how that works BainsBane Mar 2013 #63

Most of the books are closed, but to give an example of Archdiocese malfeance... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #66

seriously? BainsBane Mar 2013 #70

Archdiocese of St. Louis... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #72

I'm going to Google BainsBane Mar 2013 #73

Is this the one? BainsBane Mar 2013 #74

Yep, pretty messed up, isn't it? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #78

Totally fucked up BainsBane Mar 2013 #79

Pastors are not always as generous, as those that give in the collection baskets! basspro1o1 Mar 2013 #134

So the Catholic hierarchy must get their money straight from God then? progressoid Mar 2013 #98

Oh no, they have enormous investments BainsBane Mar 2013 #114

*snort* Yes - they've been fleecing the flock for centuries. progressoid Mar 2013 #118

my mother BainsBane Mar 2013 #127

65% of the funds Catholic Charities uses comes from Federal Tax revenues, not the Church Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #108

And that's the problem. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #45

thank you for your post and your personal story. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #16

(OT) And just where have you been, missy? Ruby the Liberal Mar 2013 #17

I've been readin' and contemplatin'. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #24

To me, it's like the grange here in rural Colorado... likesmountains 52 Mar 2013 #18

That's a very nice comparison. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #29

The problem is when they force their views on everyone else. justice1 Mar 2013 #19

I imagine he'd be doing that no matter what religion he was. Richardo Mar 2013 #23

I also am an ex-Catholic ybbor Mar 2013 #20

"It seems to me that the Church has regressed to a more intolerant doctrine, perhaps to try... scarletwoman Mar 2013 #28

I feel that is the gist of it. I remember seeing the nuns and layman standing outside the prison freshwest Mar 2013 #86

Regression Tree-Hugger Mar 2013 #107

I always thought it was a down payment on an apt. in Heaven... Really! busterbrown Mar 2013 #26

Agreed. davidthegnome Mar 2013 #31

You do blame the whole family if they knew he was abusing the dog.... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #59

Perhaps it was a poor analogy davidthegnome Mar 2013 #95

Excellent post! Thank you for writing it! scarletwoman Mar 2013 #140

So, why not keep all the money collected at the local level and not send any up the hierarchy? nt Jerry442 Mar 2013 #32

It doesn't work that way. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #150

At some point someone has to write a check. What if they didn't? NT Jerry442 Mar 2013 #159

The money still needs to be paid. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #184

the grass roots Catholics.... maindawg Mar 2013 #36

Thank you. 840high Mar 2013 #39

Hear! Hear! ReRe Mar 2013 #41

Good post, I think you are expressing the feelings of many Catholics, practicing or not. mountain grammy Mar 2013 #42

Apparently your local preist didn't fancy you as a sexual target, you're one of the lucky ones! DrewFlorida Mar 2013 #43

'one of the lucky ones' You make it seem like like abuse is the rule, not the exception. onehandle Mar 2013 #49

Oh you think the Catholics you know would just go around telling you they were raped? DrewFlorida Mar 2013 #56

It's not an "attack" and it's not "absurd" MellowDem Mar 2013 #46

I find a great deal of what my government does really quite appalling. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #52

Taxes are involuntary, governments are necessary, analogy is stupid. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #60

Let me deconstruct this terrible analogy again... MellowDem Mar 2013 #67

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are ,,, westerebus Mar 2013 #85

You don't have to recite the pledge of allegiance... MellowDem Mar 2013 #125

You can simply go through the motions. westerebus Mar 2013 #154

You can... MellowDem Mar 2013 #164

Excommunication didn't seem to both Henry VIII . He founded the Church of England. westerebus Mar 2013 #173

THANK you. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #120

And I am compelled to pay those taxes for shit I hate and I speak out about the crap Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #167

What a wonderful post! Tumbulu Mar 2013 #50

Well said goldent Mar 2013 #64

Why do they "put money in the collection plate"? Unless the practice is less than universal, AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #65

What you are talking about is so 1940's. No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #87

It's still done. They'll even send you a tax statement each year. JVS Mar 2013 #93

Thanks. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #97

Are you actually claiming that a list of names is posted No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #129

no. I'm saying that envelopes are not some relic from 1940. JVS Mar 2013 #135

Of course not. I replied to the first sentence and subject of the comment re No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #139

If it involves getting money, most congregations will make it as convenient as humanly possible. JVS Mar 2013 #142

Your first paragraph is exactly why people shouldn't donate their money. Moses2SandyKoufax Mar 2013 #69

What most people don't realize about the RCC is that most of it's American wealth hrmjustin Mar 2013 #76

More an incentive to starve the beast then, that way at least they won't have money to spare... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #84

Yes. If there were a God and he read DU, He would be sick of this shit, too. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #82

The Vatican is worth 500 billion dollars. They could fund every parish without tithing. Lint Head Mar 2013 #83

Religious gatherings will always represent community. Kurovski Mar 2013 #89

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #90

When I was younger, our parish priest had a reputation as a real tightwad. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #91

That's right. It's the folks who point out the curruption, hatred and bigotry that those dollars... Walk away Mar 2013 #92

This is what we've devolved to? Leaving money in the collection plate is now controversial? tritsofme Mar 2013 #94

At least in part to partially finance relocation of pedophile priests. The Link Mar 2013 #96

So we should excuse them because they don't know where the money goes? (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #99

While I am no longer Catholic, I agree with you Fresh_Start Mar 2013 #100

Thank you for saying that. timdog44 Mar 2013 #136

You cannot deny, however, that some of that money is used in unsavory ways justiceischeap Mar 2013 #103

I appreciate your post. I would be interested in knowing how much of the dollar that goes rhett o rick Mar 2013 #105

so why do you need the church? Bradical79 Mar 2013 #106

I'm a Catholic-church-going atheist. I put money in the collection plate (actually my kids do) for Texas Lawyer Mar 2013 #109

You response is almost too reasonable No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #124

I thought it was guilt and expectation Gore1FL Mar 2013 #110

I have little love for... AnneD Mar 2013 #112

How does donating to a group that funds fights against LGBT rights make you a good person? Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #168

I give in kind..... AnneD Mar 2013 #174

So basically you volunteer time or material to your local parish so they don't have to spend money.. Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #178

Money still goes to Rome angryjames Mar 2013 #115

Isn't that special. Still, the Church had plenty of money to fight for Prop 8, though. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #117

Thanks to the kind donations of DU members. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #169

Uh huh. Sure. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #119

Well said. Hekate Mar 2013 #121

One of the most poignant moments of my life KamaAina Mar 2013 #122

I didn't realize people were doing that. But I don't read Catholic bashing threads. MissMarple Mar 2013 #132

There is a relatively small but vocal number of people (here and elsewhere)... YoungDemCA Mar 2013 #138

luckily I have most of them on ignore by now liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #141

I never used Ignore until today No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #143

Is the answer "Jesus"? Brickbat Mar 2013 #144

No. They put money in, because if they don't, the Big Sky Man will send them... harmonicon Mar 2013 #146

Are there any DUers who attend mass? loyalsister Mar 2013 #147

Hi loyalsister - I attend mass...at our church there is a fairly wide mix of elderly, young, etc. Pendrench Mar 2013 #179

Thank you loyalsister Mar 2013 #183

No problem - if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer the best I can :) Pendrench Mar 2013 #185

to make themselves feel better ? 4 t 4 Mar 2013 #148

For a long time, I didn't give, out of protest. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #149

DU has changed in the last few years TomClash Mar 2013 #152

Why is it that the extremes in every group are always the loudest? liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #153

I've tried extreme rebuttal cartach Mar 2013 #158

LGBT advocates, pro-choice and pro-contraception activists are extremists now? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #170

Thank you for a very nice post . . . TomClash Mar 2013 #172

What kills me MFrohike Mar 2013 #155

You nailed it in your last sentence. corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #180

Just as a shopper at Walmart isnt thinking quakerboy Mar 2013 #156

Upkeep of their parish church? cartach Mar 2013 #157

RE upkeep of parish church No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #165

Do you ever wonder why the vatican doesn't help? Marrah_G Mar 2013 #196

Educate yourself No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #198

great answer Marrah_G Mar 2013 #199

And still they attack the church here without... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #160

I'm still counted among those 1.2 billion, and I'm sick of people pulling that number... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #171

True, but take out those who left and... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #190

I doubt half that number are practicing Catholics. Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #192

Half of those clamoring about church donations probably support & invest in Wall St. raouldukelives Mar 2013 #162

Whatever the subjective intention... Deep13 Mar 2013 #176

To Get to the Other Side? cap Mar 2013 #177

No need to say "sorry" on my account. Your post made me chuckle. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #181

Love it. Not bad--pretty darn funny--gotta pay to play! corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #182

interesting that the rule against religious posts in GD.. Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #195

My OP was posted last week when the "big news" exception for religion threads in GD was in effect. scarletwoman Mar 2013 #200

Every Protestant Church I've attended Passed The Collection Plate Around Too! TheBlackAdder Mar 2013 #201

Yes, of course. The only reason I wrote my OP (last week) about Catholics in particular, scarletwoman Mar 2013 #202