General Discussion

Charlemagne

(576 posts)

118. If you dont wont you shouldnt complain

Fri Dec 16, 2011, 12:13 AM

Dec 2011

"Thats like me complaining about seatbelts and you delving into me thinking minorities or women shouldn't drive."

No actually its not "reaching" at all. Nor is it like the example you provided. You said that if people dont vote, then they should not exercise their freedom of speech.

The example you chose above deals with:
1. A law (seat belts), which is a choice.
2. Gender (women), which is not a choice.

However your original argument, before you accused me of trying to play games, deal with
1. Voting, constitutional right
2. Free Speech, constitutional right.

You said that not doing one should negate the other.

Not wearing a seat belt doesn't mean you shouldnt be a woman

but, as you argued,

Not voting does mean that you shouldnt use your 1st amendment rights.

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I Will Not Play The Lesser Of Two Evil Political Game in 2012 [View all] rsmith6621 Dec 2011 OP

OK n/t ProSense Dec 2011 #1

+1 ellisonz Dec 2011 #73

+2 pasto76 Dec 2011 #172

If you don't vote then you have no right to complain. How will you spend 4 years away from FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #2

+1000 liberal N proud Dec 2011 #8

The first amendment applies to non-voters as well as voters. Chef Eric Dec 2011 #28

+1, Agreed & Well Said! Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #36

Nope, didn't take civics in 5th grade, all I have is this: If you don't vote then don't complain. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #42

If not voting is a political statement Charlemagne Dec 2011 #88

What kind of protest, not giving a shit who runs your country? How revolutionary. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #96

Seriously dude.... Charlemagne Dec 2011 #101

Sure thats fine, but said person shouldn't complain. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #106

I agree Charlemagne Dec 2011 #114

Really reaching on that one. Please, only stick to what I said and not hyperbole. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #115

If you dont wont you shouldnt complain Charlemagne Dec 2011 #118

When did I say they should not exercise their right to free-speech? They can do whatever they want. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #121

"When did I say they should not exercise their right to free-speech" Charlemagne Dec 2011 #125

Again, the whole WAY too literal thing. Did you think I was the one who has power to take away FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #133

By that same logic, if you vote and your guy wins, you lose the right to complain. EOTE Dec 2011 #150

No, not at all. If you PARTICIPATED in democracy then complain away. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #216

Who decides what is lazy and what is protest? cliffordu Dec 2011 #131

I am not getting this not voting meme.... ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #206

I am assuming Charlemagne Dec 2011 #207

Aren't we worth more than a "political statement"? The repercussions of voting will gateley Dec 2011 #231

So if my choices are between 2 different plates of shit... vi5 Dec 2011 #152

You're kidding..... right? Uncle Fester Dec 2011 #166

If you vote you consent in the outcome pscot Dec 2011 #192

My point exactly. :) nt Uncle Fester Dec 2011 #200

This post Charlemagne Dec 2011 #208

Thank you. nt SusanaMontana41 Dec 2011 #210

+2000 B Calm Dec 2011 #40

voting means squat shit. provis99 Dec 2011 #44

Riiiiight. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #49

exactly my thoughts! Carolina Dec 2011 #80

Excuse me?? The 1st Amendment says nothing about voting. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #50

Oh Jeez, it's an expression. NOT voting makes YOU the biggest part of the problem. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #54

Well, fortunately it's not all about you. I do want to hear from people who choose not to vote sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #58

Sorry, but voting is the LEAST someone can do. No excuses. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #64

Do as you wish. In my opinion that attitude is as responsible for the non-voters as the non-voters sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #75

Right, you're talking to someone that believes election day should be a National Holiday. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #94

Voting is one way of participating. It is not the only way, and I'll be damned if I'll SusanaMontana41 Dec 2011 #212

Jeez, not voting upsets you. I had the impression that you would be A Simple Game Dec 2011 #76

so denying a vote to someone who might win to vote for someone who can't win is good for you and onenote Dec 2011 #98

So voting for someone that I don't want to win will help my candidate how? n/t A Simple Game Dec 2011 #220

If your candidate has zero chance of winning, how does your vote help you? onenote Dec 2011 #223

If you are happy with what the two major parties have to offer, good for you. A Simple Game Dec 2011 #230

And you honestly believe that the re-election of President Obama onenote Dec 2011 #240

Keep it up, I'm sure it will work out fine the next time! A Simple Game Dec 2011 #241

Great! But you're not the OP, who I was referring to. Please DO vote for the most Liberal person. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #99

The biggest part of the problem sulphurdunn Dec 2011 #142

Well said. hay rick Dec 2011 #155

I've always heard that...but I don't see it in the Bill of Rights, so I'm going to call BS Toucano Dec 2011 #71

Yes, they DO have every right to complain about it, right after they vote. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #100

"If God had intended for us to vote..... Fuddnik Dec 2011 #124

Oh grow the hell up. If you don't vote, then DO NOT BITCH ! This is FRINGE nonsense. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #139

Or as the wise old George Carlin said if you vote you have no right to complain. sad sally Dec 2011 #79

That goes against the collective society and unity. Him and THOUSANDS of others who didn't vote FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #102

Uh. This is America. What country do you come from. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #84

How can you complain about your employees when you didn't hire them? FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #103

Still not getting it, huh? Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #158

That makes NO SENSE. Participating in democracy gives your complaints credibility. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #217

Please read the posts you reply to. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #221

I believe you have that ass-backwards...... DeSwiss Dec 2011 #91

Sorry. See my above post, I am a Carlin fan but I will speak for myself and use my own logic. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #104

Everyone should use their own logic. DeSwiss Dec 2011 #112

Exactly! FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #116

I'm fairly certain that post you're responding to went entirely over your head. EOTE Dec 2011 #151

No, I understood it completely. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #218

Um. You Do Realize That Carlin Was A Comic, Right? ProfessorGAC Dec 2011 #248

While I too have made similar statements..... DeSwiss Dec 2011 #249

In America, you have the right to complain whether you vote or not. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #123

Yeah, I answered that argument about 7 times already up above. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #135

Poorly. RUMMYisFROSTED Dec 2011 #159

You replied. I wouldn't call those posts answers. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #181

NO. STOP WITH THAT WARPED LOGIC. YOU CAN COMPLAIN IF YOU PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #219

No. You stop yelling. And read the posts you think you are replying to. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #222

If the Powers to Be do not allow you to vote none of the above or write in avebury Dec 2011 #144

Paying taxes gives the right to complain Xicano Dec 2011 #156

Bullshit. When you vote for "evil", and you get it ,THEN you don't have any right to complain kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #168

You're in the new DU (DU3). Complaining is not allowed. styersc Dec 2011 #195

Things are SO BAD.... CoffeeCat Dec 2011 #196

Amen CoffeeCat. Amen aquamarina Dec 2011 #199

Even if voting meant real change, Diebold would corrupt the process! Yavapai Dec 2011 #204

Like your style, panache, and right-on indepat Dec 2011 #225

well said and I couldn't agree more n/t dana_b Dec 2011 #239

Yes, it means you do not intend to vote for or support Obama. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #3

Nader 2000! TheWraith Dec 2011 #4

I know what you mean. Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2011 #5

I think some here have been done and over done months/years ago. Whisp Dec 2011 #27

Good. That's what emilyg Dec 2011 #46

Anyone who insinuates that Obama is "evil" loses the debate. JNinWB Dec 2011 #6

Seriously. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2011 #13

Obama is not "evil" - Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2011 #37

I agree but we should have all been up at arms this bird has flown Dec 2011 #110

Most of us WERE up in arms here and elsewhere -- Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2011 #242

That's what I was going to say. Obama is just not Adlai Stephenson or Paul Wellstone. He is the guy The Wielding Truth Dec 2011 #201

It is NOT a game, it is a CON Vincardog Dec 2011 #7

A new con. You know - neo con. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #182

You so funny Vincardog Dec 2011 #190

The NDAA authorizes detention of OWS. It mentions them specifically. Robb Dec 2011 #9

I hear BHO will use it to lock up the 99%.... Scuba Dec 2011 #11

Until Levin shows a birth certificate, it's all conjecture. Robb Dec 2011 #12

Duzy! FSogol Dec 2011 #34

I bet you a dollar someone starts a thread along those lines, basing it on your post emulatorloo Dec 2011 #22

I think it's already been posted. Whisp Dec 2011 #29

Yep, the OP emulatorloo Dec 2011 #39

No law was needed to target OWS. It's already happening, with help from some surprising sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #52

Kinda makes this "equal justice under the law" and "the rule of law" indepat Dec 2011 #227

Section C mentions my Mother grantcart Dec 2011 #61

The NDAA mandates C sections?!? Robb Dec 2011 #65

What you need to do is get to work now, rooting out DINO's and vetting real Democrats... Scuba Dec 2011 #10

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2011 #15

That has been my cause, getting rid of Dinos julian09 Dec 2011 #31

Any advice on how to vet real Dems would be appreciated. n/t Scuba Dec 2011 #43

For incumbants their voting record on all issues , nothing speaks louder. julian09 Dec 2011 #113

Who gets to decdie who is a real Democrat and who isn't? totodeinhere Dec 2011 #81

Do as you want, it's a free country. But don't kid yourself. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #14

Moral purity means you can't consider the results of your actions. hack89 Dec 2011 #17

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Dec 2011 #19

A lot lower than anything President Obama has done. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #20

how much DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Dec 2011 #165

ok, you voted for gore DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #209

one has the strength of their convictions. LanternWaste Dec 2011 #179

Bless their pointy little heads Sheepshank Dec 2011 #246

"It's a free country". Yeah, ok, bub. provis99 Dec 2011 #45

Kidding one's self is essential to the 'no difference between the two' crowd. grantcart Dec 2011 #62

if we had a parlaimentary system i would vote for Green Party candidates arely staircase Dec 2011 #82

Sadly, that's the political reality...today. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #89

very good post, with only one problem arely staircase Dec 2011 #92

That's true....trying to game this out. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #108

"Only 1 helps Democrats and progressives." Charlemagne Dec 2011 #90

What option, other than voting for Obama, helps progressives? Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #119

Yep Charlemagne Dec 2011 #120

Yep Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #127

you guys Charlemagne Dec 2011 #128

Thanks! To use one of the Governor's favorite expressions, "He's an asshole". Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #134

Stop being such a realist! Martin Eden Dec 2011 #145

"Only 1 helps Democrats and progressives" vi5 Dec 2011 #153

So, I guess you'll be voting for Teddy Roosevelt next November? Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #167

Voting for a conservative democrat... vi5 Dec 2011 #174

You're a youngster!...I got 40 years under my belt. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #180

I don't base my opinions on how many people agree with me.... vi5 Dec 2011 #188

good for you fascisthunter Dec 2011 #16

It's your vote... one_voice Dec 2011 #18

"Evil"? Good thing you're here to tell us what other people believe. nt Chef Eric Dec 2011 #32

The OP told us what s/he thinks... one_voice Dec 2011 #35

No fair...now your making him think. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #77

or alternatively you could just read the OP where Obama is labelled 'evil'. grantcart Dec 2011 #63

If you can't bring yourself to vote in the presidential race... Capitalocracy Dec 2011 #21

yep arely staircase Dec 2011 #93

ok. when you find that perfect, flawless world, make sure to send us notice. Whisp Dec 2011 #23

THEN GO VOTE REPUBLICAH WHAAAAARGARBLE!!!1!!1!1! WilliamPitt Dec 2011 #24

Your second paragraphs reaches almost Beckian levels of Hyperbole. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #25

"a chill sweeps the land. we are all doooomed...." dionysus Dec 2011 #55

All we can do is set the stage for improvement of our choices in 2016 customerserviceguy Dec 2011 #26

I've seen your posts in the past, so I am willing to bet that you will vote for Obama karynnj Dec 2011 #30

well, we used to think that no Democrat would put cuts to Social Security and Medicare on the table, kath Dec 2011 #129

If you really care about those issues ... Martin Eden Dec 2011 #146

Is that your Formal Declaration? alcibiades_mystery Dec 2011 #33

Oh wow, that's so principled. frazzled Dec 2011 #38

It isn't the lesser of two evils, it's fair compared to horrible, pretty easy decision for me usregimechange Dec 2011 #41

too bad Gus Hall isn't around any more, you might like him demosincebirth Dec 2011 #47

Thou shalt try not to consider people douchebags. RiffRandell Dec 2011 #48

There is no alternative quaker bill Dec 2011 #51

I don't know where you got all of your ideas about the OP. I read it twice and A Simple Game Dec 2011 #78

oooh, the melodrama... dionysus Dec 2011 #53

Do what you wish. n/t NYC Liberal Dec 2011 #56

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000 Odin2005 Dec 2011 #57

May I Add Some More Zeros ??? WillyT Dec 2011 #60

that attitude is why we are in the sh*t we're in now. thanks for not voting and ellenfl Dec 2011 #59

Are you serious? ChadwickHenryWard Dec 2011 #130

how is letting one of the current crop of repub wannabes win because some refuse to vote help anyone ellenfl Dec 2011 #229

"If you participate in OWS activity's you better be prepared - Summer Hathaway Dec 2011 #66

Don't not vote: here's why Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2011 #68

+1 Meshuga Dec 2011 #70

And, even if there aren't any down ballot votes dflprincess Dec 2011 #86

I hope you enjoy your greater evil, then, and it looks like it may be pretty great. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2011 #69

I'll vote for Obama but I won't like it. L0oniX Dec 2011 #72

i disagree with your premise - that president obama is evil arely staircase Dec 2011 #74

check out Rocky Anderson's party. The Justice party. He's a progressive dem. Javaman Dec 2011 #83

Rocky just got in the race. El Prezidente Kaboom Dec 2011 #117

a progressive voting repuke. Right, have fun with that. Javaman Dec 2011 #154

Yes Titonwan Dec 2011 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author MineralMan Dec 2011 #238

Making no move IS in fact move in this game. nt Lex Dec 2011 #85

Very well said Charlemagne Dec 2011 #87

and yet another person who hasn't read the NDAA proudly displays their ignorance onenote Dec 2011 #95

I consider a vote for Obama to be a vote for the greater good. ZenLefty Dec 2011 #97

Quick question apples and oranges Dec 2011 #105

Its a bit ironic if you look at the OP's profile quinnox Dec 2011 #122

Gosh I miss the unrec. Liberal In Texas Dec 2011 #107

I think it's (past) time to focus energy on getting instant run-off. jtrockville Dec 2011 #109

Throwing away your right to vote? Don't complain about the outcome. -nt CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #111

Just another opinion airplaneman Dec 2011 #126

How did you ever make it this far into the baloney-fest? bhikkhu Dec 2011 #132

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing Scootaloo Dec 2011 #136

DUMB fringe "Stay home to punish the Dems" thinking. Are you an adult or a toddler? RBInMaine Dec 2011 #137

Would ProSense Dec 2011 #138

Then you shall have the GREATER of two evils DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #140

I will play the game JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2011 #141

You have to DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #148

Follow your own conscience pintobean Dec 2011 #143

It's good to see that the New DU Island Blue Dec 2011 #147

Let me think - will I vote for someone I agree with 90% of the time groundloop Dec 2011 #149

Write yourself in for President, then, and MineralMan Dec 2011 #157

I'll bet you didn't in 2000 either. WI_DEM Dec 2011 #160

You don't have a choice abelenkpe Dec 2011 #161

Ross 'Rocky' Anderson with the Justice Party Titonwan Dec 2011 #162

"he's taken quite enough, doncha think?" bull n/t Sheepshank Dec 2011 #247

Since as I've been told over the last three years here, the presidency is an impotent office, closeupready Dec 2011 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Kahuna Dec 2011 #169

then you can deal with the GREATER of two evils for the next eight years. pasto76 Dec 2011 #170

Yep. 90% of the 2000 Nader voters I know realized their mistake when Bush turned out much more stevenleser Dec 2011 #176

By S*A*Y*I*N*G you won't play whatever game, you're playing their game. patrice Dec 2011 #171

*sigh* I totally understand your frustration. But Occupying the inauguration of President Gingrich Zorra Dec 2011 #173

President Obama vs 1% Corporate Shill daggahead Dec 2011 #175

I, for one, will not give up. /nt HisTomness Dec 2011 #177

an average guy and a citizen vying for change. LanternWaste Dec 2011 #178

Yes K&R (nt) T S Justly Dec 2011 #183

Wow -- I feel the opposite. I plan to work my butt off for the democrats and Barack Obama because Emillereid Dec 2011 #184

I will vote, BUT... 99Forever Dec 2011 #185

I submit that voting for the lesser of two evils ultimately is no choice at all. wundermaus Dec 2011 #186

It's a good cop/bad cop sucker game to keep the establishment in power. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #187

In other words-- you're giving up in a hissy fit just because things didn't turn out... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #189

No, you bloody well won't. aquart Dec 2011 #191

You just did frazzled Dec 2011 #193

Thanks for the heads up and prediction. nt gateley Dec 2011 #194

"I will not play the lesser of 2 evil political game" Frances Dec 2011 #197

What a STUPID waste of time in defense of the spoiler effect, which is both harmful and unnecessary saras Dec 2011 #198

POTUS Gingrich will thank you for your non-vote KILL THE WISE ONE Dec 2011 #202

Then you'd better start a Revolution or sit down. Veracious Dec 2011 #203

If you don't vote, take a seat and watch Inchworm Dec 2011 #205

Another "Look at Me!" thread lunatica Dec 2011 #211

Thank you rsmith swilton Dec 2011 #213

So, let me get this right... SoonerShankle Dec 2011 #214

If you will not play the-lesser-of-two-evils game, how about playing Cal33 Dec 2011 #215

That is your decision. Please think about voting for congress critters at least. That will at least jwirr Dec 2011 #224

Amy voted for NDAA too n/t cyglet Dec 2011 #233

Sometimes we get the government we deserve. If you dont vote and we get Newt, you will deserve it nt stevenleser Dec 2011 #226

You could write in Sen. Bernie Sanders name on the ballot for President. nt NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #228

That's what I'm going to do cyglet Dec 2011 #234

That is also what my current line of thinking is. NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #236

I think this is an over-reaction and people should place the blame on those who put this in. proud patriot Dec 2011 #232

Thanks for letting us know up front. madokie Dec 2011 #235

Me neither. I ALWAYS vote for the Democrat. McCamy Taylor Dec 2011 #237

I have no time for this type of idiocy Sheepshank Dec 2011 #243

So instead you play the lesser of three evils political game in 2012 Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #244

Trying to Think of an Evil Democrat otohara Dec 2011 #245