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magical thyme

(14,881 posts)

153. Forgiveness does not mean absolving of guilt or the need for justice

Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:59 AM

Mar 2013

It means simply do not harbor bitterness and hatred in your own heart and soul.

If you harbor bitterness and hatred, you do not obtain justice, nor do you punish somebody else. You only hurt yourself.

At a personal level, I find it is very easy to forgive those who haven't directly injured us or someone we deeply love. Too easy and, frankly, too pat to even worry about it. I don't go around all day every day hating Pinochet. I suspect you don't either. I hate the idea of what he did, I hate the idea that our Government aids and abets the overthrow of legitimate governments and installs puppet governments in their place. But I don't stew on it all day, every day and I don't refuse to engage with or speak to politicians because of their involvement in evil.

The Dalai Lama meets with the people he meets with due to his position in life and his goal to return Tibet to the Tibetan people. Not some conspiracy or hypocrisy, just doing the best he can to convince China to leave Tibet to the Tibetans.

Because it is only by engaging with the world that you can change it. The question is what will you bring to the party? More hate, bitterness and desire for revenge? Or more peace and equilibrium?

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The Dalai Lama, a sordid history of Nazi Mentors and forgiving Fascists [View all] Paul E Ester Mar 2013 OP

Hmmm. Interesting...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #1

Is this what we are doing now? Should I go out and find some insulting article about liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #2

Buddhist do not have a Deity upaloopa Mar 2013 #82

Most Buddhist do worship Gods FreeState Mar 2013 #85

Religion facts is wrong. TM99 Mar 2013 #97

there is no pure buddhism polluted by other traditions such as you imagine. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #120

You and I have gotten into such debates in the past. TM99 Mar 2013 #152

= 'yes, there are gods, but they're different.' 'medicine buddha' = lol. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #173

You obviously are lacking in TM99 Mar 2013 #182

Buddhism doesn't have a creator god because it doesn't have a creation. So what? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #183

All you have left is TM99 Mar 2013 #186

lol. you know nothing about me. i don't think anything like 'all buddhists are sweetness and light' HiPointDem Mar 2013 #194

VERY confusing article. They are not considered "gods" jazzimov Mar 2013 #170

'not god' is a label. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #195

That wouldn't be hard, but you can be sure the DU atheists will beat Cleita Mar 2013 #88

But, Buddhism isn't a "religion". jazzimov Mar 2013 #175

Agree, another thread Into the trash Katashi_itto Mar 2013 #168

Interesting story and website. The links go some of my favorite subjects. Thanks. freshwest Mar 2013 #3

Budhists never hate anyone. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #4

Indeed. Mika Mar 2013 #9

"Budhists never hate anyone" - How about some recent history Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #62

I didn't know Mao spoke in incoherent fragments. JVS Mar 2013 #65

If you don't try to live by Buddhist principals you are not a Buddhist upaloopa Mar 2013 #81

Well then most of the historic tibetan buddhist leadership weren't buddhists. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #191

The Dalai Lama is from the Mahayana tradition. BlueToTheBone Mar 2013 #83

The Dalai Lama is Vajrayana not Mahayana n/t FreeState Mar 2013 #89

He is from the Gelukpa tradition (yellow hats) BlueToTheBone Mar 2013 #90

But most modern thinking separates Vajrayana from Mahayana because of Lamaism FreeState Mar 2013 #93

Again, this is incorrect. TM99 Mar 2013 #98

Thanks for the book FreeState Mar 2013 #180

You are very welcome. TM99 Mar 2013 #181

... BlueToTheBone Mar 2013 #196

Lamaism FreeState Mar 2013 #197

There's a difference between "never" and "shouldn't"... Bradical79 Mar 2013 #66

baloney. buddhism has been just as militaristic as christianity in its long history. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #68

You might want to read up on the history of Sri Lanka and the role of Buddhist monks RFKHumphreyObama Mar 2013 #155

So the first link you posted is 13 years old... Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #5

I noticed that it wasn't a one time thing too. Here he is with EVIL personified. Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #7

Maybe I'm not getting your point... Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #8

I'm Rec'cing your post Hekate Mar 2013 #17

I'm Rec'cing your post too. (2) Melinda Mar 2013 #35

did jesus take money from them? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #69

Did Jesus have a 2nd job? magical thyme Mar 2013 #74

Yes, I'm sure jesus was a covert agent of pharoah. But actually, I don't give a damn about HiPointDem Mar 2013 #87

not sure what you mean by magical thyme Mar 2013 #92

Special category of religion? kwassa Mar 2013 #142

You're casting a lot of stones... Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #80

An exiled head of state taking money directly from the CIA is not comparable to HiPointDem Mar 2013 #84

in this country, people use their wages magical thyme Mar 2013 #114

The Dalai Lama took money directly from the CIA. Your attempt at apologetics is completely HiPointDem Mar 2013 #116

What is wrong with the Dalai Lama taking money from the CIA? kwassa Mar 2013 #143

not 'wrong'. but not in accordance with the notion of an ethereal holy man whose only HiPointDem Mar 2013 #147

The Dalai Lama had no role in the resistance movement, not that there would be anything wrong kwassa Mar 2013 #158

the dalai lama was the *head* of the overseas resistance. i don't expect the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #176

Up until very recently he was the head of the country of Tibet BlueToTheBone Mar 2013 #199

'very recently' = 50 years ago HiPointDem Mar 2013 #201

You're giving mcCain way too much credit. He's GRUMPINESS personified. Scootaloo Mar 2013 #102

what a weak-assed point BuddhaGirl Mar 2013 #169

I gotta be honest all the back and forth hatred over religion or lack of is getting old Arcanetrance Mar 2013 #6

Here he is meeting with J�rg Haider Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #10

You're wasting your time Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #11

So? There's a pic of him meeting someone. The Dalai Lama isn't at a Nazi meeting Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #12

So here's a pic of Obama practically nuzzling a war criminal� Jackpine Radical Mar 2013 #31

LOL! nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #94

"George... Why do you smell like hot dog water?" Scootaloo Mar 2013 #103

LOL! Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #161

how about his cia funding? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #70

As someone who opposes his politics, I have a few questions about what you're saying. JVS Mar 2013 #13

nice try. but thank you for the interesting reading. a couple choice quotes: magical thyme Mar 2013 #14

I'm Rec'cing your post, too Hekate Mar 2013 #18

too bad there is no 'forgiveness' for the people pinochet *murdered* en masse. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #134

That and a $1.95 might buy you a cup of coffee. kwassa Mar 2013 #144

better than dying nameless and supposedly 'guilty' while pinochet dies a multimillionaire. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #146

and what does this have to do with the Dalai Lama? kwassa Mar 2013 #148

"forgive pinochet, says dalai lama" = part of the OP. any other obvious questions you need HiPointDem Mar 2013 #149

Forgiveness does not mean absolving of guilt or the need for justice magical thyme Mar 2013 #153

i don't forgive mass murderers, especially those posing as leaders & looking to rehabilitate HiPointDem Mar 2013 #154

if you spend your time stewing in anger and hatred for them magical thyme Mar 2013 #165

I question why the dalai lama wasted his time making such a statement, as HiPointDem Mar 2013 #166

you would need to ask the Dalai Lama that magical thyme Mar 2013 #167

you're spending a lot of time defending the dalai lama, though. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #172

Miguel Serrano - Creator of Esoteric Hitlerism/ and head of chile Nazi party Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #15

So... Nation of Islam for white people? n/t Scootaloo Mar 2013 #104

Whoa, this is better than SciFi channel. Could you post the link since it got cut off?? freshwest Mar 2013 #159

Do you really think going after the Dalai Lama is a useful thing to do? bemildred Mar 2013 #16

I don't know about useful, but one would think that going after a deposed theocrat wouldn't even... JVS Mar 2013 #20

Yeah, exactly, why are we worrying about this? bemildred Mar 2013 #22

What's legitimate about him? JVS Mar 2013 #25

You got me. bemildred Mar 2013 #29

Was he ever legitimate? Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #28

I'm not saying he is legitimate, I'm asking why do you care? bemildred Mar 2013 #32

Andy Devine was a divine actor. aquart Mar 2013 #79

I just realized, I've read Harrer's book, it was quite interesting. bemildred Mar 2013 #27

Heinrich Harrer bemildred Mar 2013 #37

"a deposed theocrat?" Buddhism does not have a deity magical thyme Mar 2013 #67

why do masters take money from the CIA? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #71

you would need to ask them magical thyme Mar 2013 #73

it's not just sects. it's all manner of supernatural beings and supernatural realms, all of HiPointDem Mar 2013 #76

the devas are not Gods in the sense that other religions have gods magical thyme Mar 2013 #91

Yes, correct! TM99 Mar 2013 #99

So, hairsplitting about Buddhist doctrine aside, what do we call that form of government? JVS Mar 2013 #101

Golly, it is not hairsplitting TM99 Mar 2013 #105

It's not misinformation. Should I have called him a deposed feudal lord? Is that better? JVS Mar 2013 #107

Yes, still misinformation, and no TM99 Mar 2013 #110

I'm going with theocrat until you let me know what a more accurate term is. JVS Mar 2013 #111

As you wish. TM99 Mar 2013 #113

"by groups adopting a combination of the two philosophies" = all (including the beliefs & HiPointDem Mar 2013 #117

in your interpretation of 'the philosophy overall'. but your interpretation is not 'the philosophy HiPointDem Mar 2013 #125

Theocracy is commonly used to mean a state ruled by a religious leader or hierarchy. Ergo, the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #187

Now they're going to lecture you on how Buddhism isn't a religion. JVS Mar 2013 #188

no, it's a 'philosophy.' and wealthy western atheistic buddhists personally taught by the dalai HiPointDem Mar 2013 #193

Interesting. What is your definition of "theocrat" jazzimov Mar 2013 #179

your knowledge is limited, apparently. theocracy is commonly used to describe governments run HiPointDem Mar 2013 #190

How many Nazi's must one hang out with...before one is guilty? Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #21

Your premise is wrong. bemildred Mar 2013 #24

Isn't that called "guilt by association" jazzimov Mar 2013 #42

Why yes, it is. I believe I mentioned that up above too. nt bemildred Mar 2013 #43

Yep, and there is a reason the guilt by association fallacy is listed as one of the more stevenleser Mar 2013 #72

the reason it's common is that in real life, it's so often not fallacious. My neighbor has a lot of HiPointDem Mar 2013 #203

The Nazis were as busy as the global corporations of today. If a person has ever gone to a school freshwest Mar 2013 #160

Heinrich Harrer - SS Officer Mentor to the young Dalai Lama, taught him to speak english Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #19

Was Harrer involved with the Ahnenerbe? JVS Mar 2013 #23

Never heard of Ahnenerbe Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #33

Obviously, you don't know what the word "mentor" means. jazzimov Mar 2013 #38

great reply AsahinaKimi Mar 2013 #100

Thank you, Ms. Asahini! jazzimov Mar 2013 #171

(cough) Robb Mar 2013 #26

Hmm. Quite interesting, now that you mention it. MH1 Mar 2013 #34

Yup. That's what I was thinking in reply #1... SidDithers Mar 2013 #45

LOL. By their hatred we shall know them. FSogol Mar 2013 #121

FFS. Obama bashing to commence in 4... 3... 2... 1... freshwest Mar 2013 #163

ZOMG! Not again. And here I thought I was getting some primo science fiction. freshwest Mar 2013 #162

Yeah, he's a huckster. Deep13 Mar 2013 #30

Why do you think he's a "huckster"? jazzimov Mar 2013 #40

So when the money he received from the CIA in the 1960s dried up... Deep13 Mar 2013 #95

You seriously want to compare him to TV Evangelists? jazzimov Mar 2013 #174

99% of religious leaders live off their followers. That's fundamental. And just because someone HiPointDem Mar 2013 #185

Forgiving someone doesn't mean allowing them to escape consequences Warpy Mar 2013 #36

I rode in a dressage clinic with a former Nazi from the German military magical thyme Mar 2013 #39

Dalai Lama: I love George W. Bush Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #41

Sometimes, emphasis is everything. jazzimov Mar 2013 #44

The Dalai Lama and the War in Iraq, in his own words. Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #126

who knew Bush the Dumber would paint cute dog pictures BlueToTheBone Mar 2013 #202

To the trash, your post goes.... Firebrand Gary Mar 2013 #46

Haters gonna hate, I guess. flvegan Mar 2013 #47

You know who else loved people ...? Denzil_DC Mar 2013 #48

Alferd Packer? Robb Mar 2013 #49

I'd skip the all-day breakfast n/t Denzil_DC Mar 2013 #50

No picture of him with that Nazi pope Ratwhateverhisname? 2 for 1 photo op if you can find it. lunasun Mar 2013 #51

I would love to live as a universally adored and astronomically wealthy ascetic Orrex Mar 2013 #52

It is funny to read that forgiveness is a bad thing Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #53

It is so sad the amount of hatred & misinformation in this thread. TM99 Mar 2013 #54

There is nothing post modern about exposing a TOOL of the CIA, Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #55

Keep trying... SidDithers Mar 2013 #56

Conspiracy Theorists like yourself TM99 Mar 2013 #58

1.7 million a year = a piddly sum? in the 60s the population of tibet was about 1.3 million. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #75

What is the population of the United States? TM99 Mar 2013 #96

Tibet's economy is subsistence agriculture, and the Dalia lama was in exile. So your comparison HiPointDem Mar 2013 #115

Again, you are arguing straw men. TM99 Mar 2013 #151

you have no idea what kind of person he is. you see his public face, and that's all. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #184

Again, you did not read the words given to you. TM99 Mar 2013 #189

how much does it cost to be taught by the Dalai lama, 'intimately'? inquiring minds want to know. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #192

I would say a right wing tool of China magical thyme Mar 2013 #57

I note that you don't appear to attempt to address the post you reply to. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #60

Hardly. TM99 Mar 2013 #64

One's take on the politics of the situation are irrelevant to the fact that the Dalai Lama HiPointDem Mar 2013 #123

I did not state otherwise. TM99 Mar 2013 #150

Trash thread and probably block poster as well. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #59

You Better Believe it! FSogol Mar 2013 #122

Thin ice. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #124

somewhere datasuspect Mar 2013 #61

Oh, God, Not This Crap Again. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #63

I miss UNREC zappaman Mar 2013 #77

Agreed. Bring back the unrec! n/t FSogol Mar 2013 #119

guilt by association? upaloopa Mar 2013 #78

forgivness janlyn Mar 2013 #86

Haters have to hate. elleng Mar 2013 #106

I wish AsahinaKimi Mar 2013 #108

Thanks, Kimi. elleng Mar 2013 #109

Yes, and in the spirit of the Dalai Lama, jazzimov Mar 2013 #177

This is one of the most hilarious threads I have read on DU... defacto7 Mar 2013 #112

It was the UFO part that sucked me in. I love that stuff. Don't believe it, but dayum! freshwest Mar 2013 #164

Heinrich Harrer was a mountain climber who only joined the Nazi party in able to be chosen to go on FSogol Mar 2013 #118

he joined the SS the day after the anschluss began, so i doubt it. he was already famous HiPointDem Mar 2013 #127

Yeah, a famous climber who was left off of German expeditions because he wasn't in the party. FSogol Mar 2013 #128

1. He was austrian. 2. He was on the 1935/6 austrian olympic skiing team. 3. The anschluss HiPointDem Mar 2013 #129

Wow, he wanted to ski and climb. How evil can you get! FSogol Mar 2013 #130

and worked for the CIA post-war. no doubt for the chance to ski & climb. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #131

Didn't Harrer die about 5 years ago? What is the point of this? FSogol Mar 2013 #132

I didn't say harrar was 'evil'. In 1938, do you really imagine there were some neutral HiPointDem Mar 2013 #133

What intelligence was there to be gained by sending wave after wave of climbers FSogol Mar 2013 #135

my name isn't hannah. hitler did not send 'wave after wave' of climbers at the eiger. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #137

You are wrong about the Eiger (among other things). I recommend the FSogol Mar 2013 #141

no, i'm not wrong in saying that hitler didn't throw 'wave after wave' of climbers at the eiger. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #145

Fuck it. I'm reccing this because I'm sick of the hypocrisy. Catherina Mar 2013 #136

ditto. some of the very same posters screaming for the head of the pope are here talking HiPointDem Mar 2013 #138

I've been thinking of writing a factual post about how the CIA has been subverting Catherina Mar 2013 #139

that would be interesting & i encourage you to post it. every religious institution is political, HiPointDem Mar 2013 #140

Btw, "Orlando Yorio and I were not denounced by Father Bergoglio." Catherina Mar 2013 #156

interesting, thanks. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #157

throughout the entire colonial world in the 30's and 40's affinity Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #178

I'm curious. What is the purpose of this thread? mmonk Mar 2013 #198

He was a paid op of the CIA during the 60s and 70s Taverner Mar 2013 #200