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Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
29. No, and yes. I will elaborate
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 08:42 PM
Mar 2013

The word "aggressive"" (though I used it) is an over simplification.

Allow me to take a step back. Dogs are pack animals, some breeds are more dominant and aggressive in terms of how they test their position within that pack. This is, in my opinion, a major problem that people have with their Pit Bulls, and it is the reason why an animal that the owner sees as being a gentle loving bundle of cuddles can go from that to violent in seconds. The reality is this: it wasn't in seconds, it happened over weeks or months or years and the owner never noticed.

You HAVE to notice.

A dog like this needs a job to do and it needs a firm hand. Not a VIOLENT hand -- you don't need to hit the dog -- but a firm consistent hand. By this I mean you must ALWAYS be in control of that dog. If you tell the dog to do something and it balks you have to react. If, for example, you call it and it doesn't come you have to stop what you are doing and go get the dog immediately. Not call it again, get it. And this applies to everything you do. A dog like this will test you, and you have to remain in charge of you have problems. It CANNOT safely be stuck in the back yard or anywhere else and ignored. You have to work with it.

The smartest and toughest dog I have ever worked with was the GSD I bought in Germany. Both of its parents were champions in the german version of police trials. This dog was brilliant. I spent 3 hours a day, every day without fail, working with that dog, training her to compete. She was breathtakingly brilliant and an amazing performer in front of other people, she LOVED performing in front of people... but not a day went by when that dog didn't test me.

Every day. Seriously without fail. She loved me, but she tested me. In her case, spotting it was easy because it was sooo bloody obvious. For example, this was a dog that was trained to respod to hand signals at a distance, but if she decided to see what I would do, she might watch for the command to do whatever -- perhaps sit -- and she would instead stick her nose in the air and turn her back to you. She'd make a show of telling you to fuck off. She knew what she was supposed to do, and she loved doing it, but testing was her nature as a dog. (Note that she never screwed around when people were watching -- she was too proud for that. That was her nature too.)

(For the record, I eventually found the perfect way to deal with it. Every time she pulled a stunt like this I would treat her like a puppy and too stupid to understand what she was doing wrong. I'd baby talk her and we would go back to her first most basic training. This is how you sit puppy, aren't you such a smart little puppy... It was humiliating and She HATED it.)

But every breed like this will do the same, they are all watching your every move and thinking. And if they begin to feel like you aren't really in control, if they begin to question your position, you have a problem brewing. If you let it go on long enough and things are just wrong someone is going to get hurt.

Back to GSDs. They are a powerful dog bred to protect. Consider what this means: they were bred to be willing to attack anything or anyone to protect their family, and they can have a tendency to OVER protect -- this is a recognized tendency in the breed that you should be on guard for. Of course they are wonderful with children, that's their job. That's what they were bred to do. They would rather die than see your kid (or you) hurt. Seriously, and think about how amazing that is. That's how much it loves you. But that level of -- call it fanaticism -- comes at a cost. You have to be in charge all the time, you have to give it a job if possible, you have to give it excercise and something to excercise it's brain. You don't have to be perfect, and I don't advise people not to own these dogs, just understand what it is you own and do your best. Your best is good enough.

I guess, to make a long story short, it comes down to this. Even today, with dogs that I can read like a book and that I love like they are my own children, I am CONSTANTLY watching them and reading them and I never forget what they are. And this is why I am appalled any time I read a post from some Pit Bull (or similar) owner refusing to acknowlege the reality of the breed. When I read a comment from someone saying that a Pit Bull is no different than a Border Collie, I cringe a bit. It's just a complete denial of reality-- like denying evolution or teaching your kids the earth is only 6000 years old -- except if you do this with a dangerous animal it is entirely possible that someone will eventually get hurt or killed. And then the dog will get the blame.

This is really a silly over simplification, but there is it. My opinion based on a lot of years with puppies and a lot of books I read as a young man.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Pit bull/Pit bull mixes kill toddler. [View all] Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 OP
sad. Adults lost track of the child. Liberal_in_LA Mar 2013 #1
You are, of course correct.. 99Forever Mar 2013 #2
Oh for Christ's sake Floyd_Gondolli Apr 2013 #73
Oh FFS. 99Forever Apr 2013 #75
Plenty of evidence on DU Floyd_Gondolli Apr 2013 #76
No sale. 99Forever Apr 2013 #78
Or perhaps Floyd_Gondolli Apr 2013 #79
Or perhaps... 99Forever Apr 2013 #82
Poor little thing. Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #3
This quote -- "Why they (the dogs) got started I have no idea" -- is the one Auggie Mar 2013 #4
Dogs pack. yellerpup Apr 2013 #80
Spot on markpkessinger Apr 2013 #96
Once you've witnessed that behavior-- yellerpup Apr 2013 #100
The terrifying thing about Pit Bulls are the owners who insist they are just another doggie n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #5
I love dogs Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 #7
I absolutely love dogs... Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #10
I admire the aggressive breeds. Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 #13
I like most breeds outsied the little mini-dogs Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #19
No, no you don't. And given these statements, you certainly have no understanding of dogs. baldguy Mar 2013 #20
Okay :) Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #30
I'm always surprised when people say GSDs are an aggressive breed stopwastingmymoney Mar 2013 #22
No, and yes. I will elaborate Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #29
I understand what you're saying stopwastingmymoney Mar 2013 #32
I'm glad it made sense, some things are hard to explain n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #33
While I love pit bulls and I stick up for them OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #45
This is an absolutely excellent post Marrah_G Apr 2013 #67
My GSD Theo is in his teenage years (1 year, 4 months old) and is testing me at every opportunity ariesgem Apr 2013 #77
What a beautiful dog! nt Demo_Chris Apr 2013 #109
raised an arctic from a puppy till he had to be put down backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #39
In many respects the entire "debate" is ludicrous Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #41
Amen n/t OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #44
excellent post get the red out Apr 2013 #84
Instincts get the red out Apr 2013 #83
exactly right - how many are now going to post about their "sweet little angels" DrDan Mar 2013 #15
Horror as rescue dog kills and dismembers two-month-old baby while his father slept JoeBlowToo Apr 2013 #59
not sure what your point is . . . this is very tragic DrDan Apr 2013 #60
Point is, dogs are dogs... JoeBlowToo Apr 2013 #61
that's true - but some seem to inflict more injury than others . . . right? DrDan Apr 2013 #62
Cows and horses kill more people each year than dogs. baldguy Apr 2013 #63
cow attacks? horse attacks? there may be a difference DrDan Apr 2013 #64
You obviously don't have any compassion for the innocent victims of the equine & bovine scurge. baldguy Apr 2013 #65
plenty of compassion - even for innocent canine victims DrDan Apr 2013 #66
when is the last time you saw a fucking cow eat a baby? snooper2 Apr 2013 #69
Usually they fuck after dinner... JoeBlowToo Apr 2013 #70
in that context I was using fuck as an adjective not a verb snooper2 Apr 2013 #71
Well, it all depends on how you raise them. Doesn't it? baldguy Apr 2013 #85
The difference is if a cow snaps you can deal with it... snooper2 Apr 2013 #86
You think beagles aren't dangerous? baldguy Apr 2013 #87
I grew up country...and no beagles aren't dangerous but our english mastiff was snooper2 Apr 2013 #89
Not true at all (links) FreeState Apr 2013 #88
It doesn't matter how many people were *actually* killed, only that they were involved in some way. baldguy Apr 2013 #90
Well then dogs outweigh them all FreeState Apr 2013 #92
Then you must want to get rid of all the dogs, everywhere. baldguy Apr 2013 #93
Can you show me where I have made any assertion FreeState Apr 2013 #94
I posted a question about that very recently and didn't really get an answer: Orrex Apr 2013 #74
I own a pitbull mix GreenEyedLefty Mar 2013 #6
I would never own a dog Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 #8
Your dogs seem lovely... my dog would no doubt love them, too. GreenEyedLefty Mar 2013 #12
Exactly. easttexaslefty Mar 2013 #11
That's the only kind of pitbull I've ever encountered - big clowns. talkingmime Mar 2013 #23
"I haven't a clue what she was "bred" to do. " hedgehog Mar 2013 #25
I would leave ANY dog I ever owned backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #40
The assault rifle of dogs. nt Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #9
The grandchild of my neighbors was attacked by their dog when he was 18 mos old undeterred Mar 2013 #14
I agree. Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 #17
Cocker spaniels look gorgeous and are generally OK hedgehog Mar 2013 #24
That sounds right. This dog was also getting older and there must undeterred Mar 2013 #31
Something the child did? The child might have merely tried to pick up his own toy. pnwmom Mar 2013 #42
As I explained, the dog and child had been together since the child was a baby with undeterred Apr 2013 #105
Any dog that kills a baby is vicious. Non-vicious dogs don't kill toddlers pnwmom Apr 2013 #108
My husband has worked with dogs for 20 years. a la izquierda Mar 2013 #46
yes, i can attest to that shanti Apr 2013 #72
A friend was scarred for life (physically & emotionally) by a Lab DirkGently Apr 2013 #97
Nature/Nurture CobblePuller Mar 2013 #16
Boxers that are trained to fight, have been known to bite Sheepshank Apr 2013 #81
I am afraid this will turn into timdog44 Mar 2013 #18
They weren't controlling the dogs in any way. baldguy Mar 2013 #21
I agree. So much of everything is training. And shepherds and rotties have stronger bites. talkingmime Mar 2013 #26
And what breed are they even talking about? Staffies? American Staffies? Pits? DirkGently Apr 2013 #99
I don't fear any dog. The vast majority are totall cupcakes inside. talkingmime Apr 2013 #113
Never trust cat killers. Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 #27
More to do with how little people know about how to handle dogs and children liberal_at_heart Apr 2013 #51
"But she never did ANYTHING like this before!" bvar22 Mar 2013 #28
Incredible... Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2013 #37
And every pig farmer knows... defacto7 Apr 2013 #52
Or a Mastiff, Rottweiler, Shepherd, etc. Not especially "pit bulls." DirkGently Apr 2013 #101
I agree Agent William Mar 2013 #34
American Staffordshire Terriers are Pit Bulls TexasBushwhacker Mar 2013 #43
The American pit bull is banned in the UK Boudica the Lyoness Apr 2013 #48
It is disturbing to me BlueSpot Mar 2013 #35
Dogs don't exist primarily to kill humans. DirkGently Apr 2013 #103
Good grief PD Turk Mar 2013 #36
Everyone talks about what they were bred for OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #38
I think it's the pitt bull's tendency Boudica the Lyoness Apr 2013 #49
You're right OwnedByCats Apr 2013 #57
Well, they shouldn't have been breast feeding it in the smoking section of Olive Garden anyway. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #47
For the life of me, I can't understand why so many people are enamored with pit bulls. Zorra Apr 2013 #50
Ironically defacto7 Apr 2013 #53
Absolutely right. I'm a news editor and 99% of dog attacks reported here are pit bulls Liberty Belle Apr 2013 #54
Don't worry... sendero Apr 2013 #58
I've had 7 dogs in my life XemaSab Apr 2013 #55
People have genetics. Do we assume their personalities are hardwired from birth? DirkGently Apr 2013 #104
Were people selectively bred for hundreds of generations to have particular personality traits? XemaSab Apr 2013 #107
I think that the dogs were a pack had more to do with this than the breed nadine_mn Apr 2013 #56
The breed should be banned. The Link Apr 2013 #68
Cool, a fresh subject. Doremus Apr 2013 #91
Methinks this thread was started to stir shit. Apophis Apr 2013 #95
Yup. Texasgal Apr 2013 #98
Australian Shepherds can be vicious too. DirkGently Apr 2013 #102
I have an English shepherd XemaSab Apr 2013 #112
Incredibly sad story. Poor baby. n/t TDale313 Apr 2013 #106
look, a pit bull thread on DU GD! arely staircase Apr 2013 #110
In other news. Golden Retriever kills nobody. Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #111
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