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RainDog

(28,784 posts)

39. so you're telling men to sit down and shut up?

Sat May 4, 2013, 12:46 PM

May 2013

even when what they have to say is no different than what many woman also have to say.

personally, I don't think that accomplishes a whole lot. I would rather have people on my side who understand the long-standing misogyny that is part of revealed religion and support those who help to talk about this issue.

do you tell men to sit down and shut up on every issue related to feminism, or only those with which you disagree with them?

Should Obama sit down and shut up when he talks about rights for gblt people, since he is not one of them, too?

Should whites sit down and shut up when another white person engages in racist talk, or should blacks, only, be the ones to fight racism?

since gender is more aligned with issues related to racism, rather than religion (i.e. someone is born with certain characteristics) while those things you mention are cultural and behavioral issues, I have to wonder -

Where does the line begin and end, where someone may have an opinion?

I'm a white person but one of my biggest issues that concerns me is the treatment of minorities in this nation. I don't pretend I'm someone I'm not, but I can support those who are attacked merely because of the color of their skin. I don't presume to speak for them, but I can and do speak in support of them in a nation with a long history of racism that continues to play out in this society.

Should I sit down and shut up about those issues, too?

Would people who are impacted by racism prefer if I sit down and shut up, or would they prefer some solidarity for their struggle?

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Egyptian TV Host Riham Said REMOVES VEIL During Interview, CLASHES With Guest Cleric Yousuf Badri [View all] Segami May 2013 OP

How long until the "feminists" demand we stop being Western Imperialists for cheering this woman! backscatter712 May 2013 #1

link? bettyellen May 2013 #4

Used to be here... backscatter712 May 2013 #7

oh, so you were airing personal issues with something ONE DUer might have said, thanks! bettyellen May 2013 #9

Here's another one. backscatter712 May 2013 #12

a small number -like one? that is the same DUer. And that is a well written, very reasonable post. bettyellen May 2013 #13

I insult Islam because Islam insults women. I make no apologies. backscatter712 May 2013 #15

Insulting fellow DUers, smearing feminists here with this bullshit that is actually a grudge against bettyellen May 2013 #21

Whatever. backscatter712 May 2013 #24

just sorting out the nonsense that this is any more than some fight with one DUer you got going on bettyellen May 2013 #28

+1 BuddhaGirl May 2013 #46

It is precisely this immature and bombastic approach that makes people take issue with... bettyellen May 2013 #55

What do you do when you see injustice? Confront it. backscatter712 May 2013 #57

civil disobedience is great, saying you totally disrespect entire populations of humanity- that you bettyellen May 2013 #61

Keep putting words in my mouth. backscatter712 May 2013 #62

Why did you put feminists in quotes? nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #63

Because they demanded that FEMEN and Amina stop protesting in the way they felt was right. backscatter712 May 2013 #64

So, I'm not misrepresenting your position. ZombieHorde May 2013 #66

When they're telling a woman protesting for her rights to sit down and shut up, that's misogyny. backscatter712 May 2013 #67

talk about whether methods of protests are wise and useful happens all the fucking time among bettyellen May 2013 #72

Well said! redqueen May 2013 #82

the whole Femen thing was manufactured as an excuse for some guys here to administer a feminist bettyellen May 2013 #90

You are right, it was manufactured by few self-proclaimed "feminists" here to dictate what idwiyo May 2013 #94

"That and "them pig-man want to look at TITTIES"!!!!!,,11,,,!!!" Scootaloo May 2013 #133

YAY!!! Another person who think they have telepathic powers! How come you didn't notice some of them idwiyo May 2013 #164

OMG, I didnt see that before now. So certain men on DU made up Femen and Amina?!?!? ROFLMAO! stevenleser May 2013 #177

Would be nice if you learnt the difference between anti-Muslim and anti-Islamist. That is if you idwiyo May 2013 #112

link to these "demands" please... bettyellen May 2013 #74

exactly, I love it when guys do that. LOL. bettyellen May 2013 #73

+100 LiberalLovinLug May 2013 #75

And once again you misrepresent what was actually said. Poster did not say "all" DUers and they idwiyo May 2013 #107

Every patriarchal religion insults women. Confessed to a Catholic priestess lately? aquart May 2013 #105

Can't say that I have. You've got a good point there. backscatter712 May 2013 #106

you can't even *spell* atheist. HiPointDem May 2013 #129

The real test of sexism: what happens to a woman who 'chooses' not to adhere to a 'holy' dress code. ancianita May 2013 #135

Yep. Apophis May 2013 #44

Same poster told me I was a bigot if I could not see that the Catholic Chruch is a 'haven for gay Bluenorthwest May 2013 #65

Yep. We both know how this poster operates. n/t backscatter712 May 2013 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author HiPointDem May 2013 #127

there's a chain of deletions by two posters, fairly obviously they both chose to delete an exchange HiPointDem May 2013 #128

I applaud and support her calling out this cleric's hypocrisy & bullshit. Segami May 2013 #5

When we see a similar pushback against Christian ministers and priests here on women issues. Skidmore May 2013 #10

Takes a real man to tell women how to be real feminists, huh? ZombieHorde May 2013 #16

Some of us were encouraging Amina and FEMEN when they did their protests. backscatter712 May 2013 #17

If there is one thing Amina and FEMEN need, it's a man's approval for their way of thinking. ZombieHorde May 2013 #20

Who was telling them how they should and shouldn't protest? backscatter712 May 2013 #22

"How long until the 'feminists' demand we..." ZombieHorde May 2013 #33

It wasn't the (non-scare-quoted) feminists that were demanding that Amina put her hijab back on. backscatter712 May 2013 #58

links to DUers telling Amina to sit down and shut up please.... and hopefully there will be text bettyellen May 2013 #87

Every single one of self-proclaimed "REAL" feminists who was up in arms because FEMEN protest idwiyo May 2013 #95

no links, because it's inflammatory bullshit designed to smear good DUErs. bettyellen May 2013 #96

Yes, I am ashamed for you. idwiyo May 2013 #98

You've seen it already muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #114

saying you are "not shockingly grateful" does NOT equal "shut up and sit down"- not by ANY stretch.. bettyellen May 2013 #139

calling it a 'stunt' and claiming to be concerned about it affecting Tunisian elections muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #144

I totally think it was a stunt, but I support her RIGHT to do it. See how that works? bettyellen May 2013 #146

When did whether it's a 'right' come into this? This is about telling her muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #148

having an opinion about it, is NOT the same as telling her to sit down and shut up at all. bettyellen May 2013 #150

I can see you're embarrassed by DUers being the westerners telling Amina what she should do muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #151

no, I think it's a great topic for debate. and that many here are full of shit portraying it as bettyellen May 2013 #153

I did an experiment with a thread, demonstrating how UNconcerned DUers really are riderinthestorm May 2013 #152

aww, a bit jealous your thread got so little attention? I've also heard women here were jealous of bettyellen May 2013 #154

Jealous?! What a laugh. That thread demonstrated PRECISELY my point. riderinthestorm May 2013 #155

well jealousy about not getting attention was on your mind when posting about your sunken thread.... bettyellen May 2013 #156

I repeat, that thread did EXACTLY as I predicted. riderinthestorm May 2013 #168

you seriously think the number of replies your thread got says anything about anyone here? bettyellen May 2013 #170

well, approval and interest from men is paramount! if we don't please them by showing our tits then bettyellen May 2013 #25

Ha! nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #35

Please keep putting words in our mouths. backscatter712 May 2013 #59

show us the links of people "demanding" Amina put her top on. bettyellen May 2013 #91

They are very skilful of creating their own imaginary fiends. Or making up stuff about idwiyo May 2013 #97

Rule #1 when dealing with these characters: Call out their tactics. n/t backscatter712 May 2013 #102

Men weren't the only ones defending Amina and FEMEN RainDog May 2013 #26

I am not painting it as women vs. men. ZombieHorde May 2013 #34

so you're telling men to sit down and shut up? RainDog May 2013 #39

I think they were explaining we don't need to seek their approval and get a pat on the back. bettyellen May 2013 #41

I never saw a single man do that related to this issue RainDog May 2013 #42

no, just dozens of guys offering their approval and patting a feminist on the back for the first bettyellen May 2013 #78

really? RainDog May 2013 #80

truly, for some- this has been just a fun way of nursing their grudges. bettyellen May 2013 #85

There you go again. Presenting your ASSumptions as facts. Shameful. idwiyo May 2013 #100

not talking to you. why would I bother when you make accusations that you cannot back up? bettyellen May 2013 #101

Of course you don't want to talk to *me*. Last time you didn't either. You talked to your imaginary idwiyo May 2013 #103

well... RainDog May 2013 #123

I agree with you that a lot of people were caught in that weird crossfire bettyellen May 2013 #145

thanks for sharing your thoughts RainDog May 2013 #157

we surely agree there are too many personal attacks. bettyellen May 2013 #161

So, any man who stands with Amina or FEMEN are "patting a feminist on the back"? You sure idwiyo May 2013 #118

dozens= any man? seriously idwiyo- do you even think before posting? bettyellen May 2013 #138

My bad! Read it as "any man out of the dozens you are talking about". Is that better? :) idwiyo May 2013 #166

Consider the following two phrases from a non-Democrat: ZombieHorde May 2013 #49

Yup, which is exactly what male posters here do when they call us "feminists".... what bullshit. bettyellen May 2013 #51

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. redqueen May 2013 #69

I've had women tell me I'm not a real feminist RainDog May 2013 #77

Unfortunately, many groups eat their own. ZombieHorde May 2013 #92

and many just love an opportunity to exploit these differences of opinion for sport bettyellen May 2013 #99

I think the underlying point, which you have brought up here is The Straight Story May 2013 #108

except quite a few of Amina's most ardent supporters were faking it- they could not hazard a guess bettyellen May 2013 #111

More ASSumptions. How do you know they were "faking it"? Telepathic mind read? Or more likely idwiyo May 2013 #113

So, if Alan Keyes called out someone who was white RainDog May 2013 #121

Identity and policy are two different things. ZombieHorde May 2013 #140

so we're in agreement that men who have an opinion RainDog May 2013 #159

Yes, unless the opinion also involves telling women how to be proper feminists. ZombieHorde May 2013 #162

If someone thinks that religious dictates do not allow women choice RainDog May 2013 #165

When a man refers to some women feminists as feminists, and other women feminists as "feminists," ZombieHorde May 2013 #167

I think that came about RainDog May 2013 #169

In my opinion, those are valid disagreements on issues and tactics. ZombieHorde May 2013 #172

Please keep distorting my statements and putting words in my mouth! n/t backscatter712 May 2013 #60

I think we established that I have neither distorted your position nor put words in your mouth. nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #83

Let's see - accusing me of being racist against a billion people, backscatter712 May 2013 #86

I have not accused anyone here of being racist, and I have not mentioned Mardi Gras. ZombieHorde May 2013 #93

Not you specifically. But another person did, and made a spectacular ass of herself. n/t backscatter712 May 2013 #104

Femen appreciates support from their supporters. nt stevenleser May 2013 #110

That has nothing to do with what I was saying, but thanks for sharing. nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #116

Oh yes it does. nt stevenleser May 2013 #117

Then you have no idea what I'm saying. nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #137

The problem is that you have no idea what you are saying. You're making it up as you go along stevenleser May 2013 #178

Please point out something bad I have said about FEMEN and their supporters. ZombieHorde May 2013 #179

There is no conspiracy by male DUers to dictate to anyone who is and isn't a feminist. idwiyo May 2013 #125

I have not made any conspiracy claims. ZombieHorde May 2013 #141

I agree with you about forcing them to wear it. Cleita May 2013 #36

muslims kardonb May 2013 #53

I was being sarcastic. backscatter712 May 2013 #54

What the hell are you talking about? efhmc May 2013 #142

Hijab SamKnause May 2013 #2

Well done! good to see the hypocrisy exposed. bettyellen May 2013 #3

Doesn't that cleric look like the Muslim version of Pat Robertson? backscatter712 May 2013 #6

LOL! Segami May 2013 #8

Yes, he does! Newest Reality May 2013 #30

I couldn't have said it better myself! n/t backscatter712 May 2013 #70

He only mistake when she walked off is Auntie Bush May 2013 #11

I thought about that too, or pulling that hat off his head. Costumes signifying nothing. freshwest May 2013 #88

Burn all the bras and hijabs. randome May 2013 #14

Please add hobbling stiletto heels to that list. Skidmore May 2013 #19

I really wish we could discard all this pointless packaging and try to see each other, instead. randome May 2013 #31

^THIS RIGHT HERE. +100,000,000,000,000 LadyHawkAZ May 2013 #119

I have refused to wear those for fifty years. n/t Cleita May 2013 #37

Not the bras. I like mine, thanks. DevonRex May 2013 #56

No offense, then. I meant metaphorically, of course. randome May 2013 #89

The bottom line is that it's demeaning and stupid and ridiculous. reformist2 May 2013 #18

she made a wonderful point that if she covered up, it would be for God, and not him. bettyellen May 2013 #32

"I will wear it for god, not for you." No 'if'. redqueen May 2013 #71

there are lesbian muslims who wear the hijab JI7 May 2013 #171

Brava! RainDog May 2013 #23

Save us from the clerics Liberal In Texas May 2013 #27

I like her last lines about peddling lunasun May 2013 #29

"No, I am the one who is leaving" GiveMeFreedom May 2013 #38

He needs to go to his heaven and have those 72 virgins promised him Cleita May 2013 #40

She exposed his hypocrisy and I'm glad. Apophis May 2013 #43

Nicely done, Riham Said! n/t ljm2002 May 2013 #45

Wow wow wow. I love this woman!!!!!! dkf May 2013 #47

I think I just fell in love with this woman Blue Palasky May 2013 #48

Carry on my lady. blackspade May 2013 #50

she is awesome! rollin74 May 2013 #52

in your FACE, old man! Kali May 2013 #76

A real journalist Paulie May 2013 #79

Listen to that fucking asshole blathering "Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram!" MADem May 2013 #81

She's great. Called on his foolishness, he plays the victim! Typical blowhard conservative tantrum. freshwest May 2013 #84

LOL! 1+ Segami May 2013 #124

K&R BRAVO! idwiyo May 2013 #109

What a brave woman Generic Other May 2013 #115

Well done her! in my humble Western imperialist warmongering opinion n/t LadyHawkAZ May 2013 #120

way to deliberately misunderstand an argument BainsBane May 2013 #122

congrats to you RainDog May 2013 #158

I'm too tired and too high for arguments LadyHawkAZ May 2013 #173

She tried to get me ppr'd when I got tired of her lies RainDog May 2013 #174

1) not a veil. 2) apparently what she did was ok with the tv station. 3) this seems to be HiPointDem May 2013 #126

One undeniable fact is that FEMEN raised consciousness of this issue and helped bring light to it. Bonobo May 2013 #130

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #131

he got angry when she brought up how he got paid to appear on the show JI7 May 2013 #132

Just as women in this country have had to carve out their own freedom. alphafemale May 2013 #134

religion heaven05 May 2013 #136

A wonderful video of a woman standing up for her rights.... Marrah_G May 2013 #143

+10000000. nt riderinthestorm May 2013 #149

Poor little man. gtar100 May 2013 #147

fucking awesome smackdown. i love how she handles him.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #160

Good for her! nt Honeycombe8 May 2013 #163

How terrible this thread was hijacked by a foolish first comment. JackRiddler May 2013 #175

I'm not sure that qualifies as hijacking. Its an extremely similar topic. stevenleser May 2013 #176