General Discussion

zazen

(2,978 posts)

86. actually, for the men who rape, it is experienced as sex

Thu May 9, 2013, 09:04 AM

May 2013

They learn to eroticize objectification and domination of women and condition their arousal to it. For them, it is sex.

People who are aroused by physically connecting with another person they love, or a playful consensual interaction with someone to whom they're attracted but have no other relationship, are also having sex. People who eroticize dominance and submission but would never dream of dominating another adult without their prior consent and then engage in consensual BDSM are also having sex.

I think you're referring to an idealized version of sex, with which I agree (well, I'd like to think it is the reality, but it's not), but it's critical to understand that how this behavior gets its additional justification by these bastards as well as propulsion is because it is experienced in their bodies _as sex._

They get off on it.

I'm paraphrasing Catharine MacKinnon on all of this. She's got a great chapter on it in _Feminism Unmodified: Discourses on Life and Law_ (1986).

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On rape culture discussions... [View all] Skidmore May 2013 OP

I just read this, I'm sorry it sunk. sufrommich May 2013 #1

It's why I stay out of GD during these times ismnotwasm May 2013 #2

back in the late 80's zerosumgame0005 May 2013 #88

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #3

Care to elaborate? siligut May 2013 #4

Doubtful. Hit and run. curlyred May 2013 #8

What I wanted to say would have banned me from the thread siligut May 2013 #10

As am I. curlyred May 2013 #12

Well at least the Jury was 6-0 ellisonz May 2013 #25

Good work! siligut May 2013 #27

I want to respond to michigandem58 and apologize to you for using your post Skidmore May 2013 #78

Skidmore, I am so sorry Sissyk May 2013 #87

This is eloquent and poignant siligut May 2013 #116

After I posted my response, I gave it some thought and elected to Skidmore May 2013 #117

that post sounded an awful lot like the pukes and nra nuts saying that nobody who is the victim niyad May 2013 #195

Possibly or just completely non-sequitur siligut May 2013 #197

here is just one of the comments, from inhofe (are we surprized?) niyad May 2013 #200

I'm convinced siligut May 2013 #201

all violent crime is a tragedy and i believe culture causes and culture can fix it galileoreloaded May 2013 #5

We are a culture that hides sex RobertEarl May 2013 #6

rape has got nothing to do with sex. n/t Whisp May 2013 #9

We know that, but the majority of society does not. nt siligut May 2013 #11

Rape does have at least something to do with sex. It uses sex as an expression of power and violence Gravitycollapse May 2013 #18

Thank you! nt raccoon May 2013 #49

I see what you are saying but Whisp May 2013 #50

Sex and intercourse are not the same. And if your definition is correct... Gravitycollapse May 2013 #52

If it's willing and agreed upon, then yes it is sex. Whisp May 2013 #53

actually, for the men who rape, it is experienced as sex zazen May 2013 #86

Yes. Absolutely. n/t Tansy_Gold May 2013 #103

Consider EMDR therapy? siligut May 2013 #7

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #13

I am astounded by your sensitivity and awareness... nt uriel1972 May 2013 #14

We all know where this is going, though, don't we? LittleBlue May 2013 #15

Men get raped too siligut May 2013 #17

why or how would anyone retaliate to this OP? G_j May 2013 #20

This thread isn't about gender... ellisonz May 2013 #22

Once again, it seems, discussing issues takes a backseat to personal beefs. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #31

DU reflects society pretty much (well with less Republicans). ellisonz May 2013 #33

I was referring to the unnecessarily snarky responses. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #35

Society can be pretty snarky. ellisonz May 2013 #36

I imagine that illustrating and discussing widespread violence... LanternWaste May 2013 #119

Thank you n/t HangOnKids May 2013 #129

Gosh. Sounds like this is a big old inconvenience for you. How could we all be so inconsiderate? Squinch May 2013 #177

if you think the subject has been done to death (although I fail to see how that is possible), you niyad May 2013 #196

Rape make life suck . bravenak May 2013 #202

Your post is disgusting. You should be ashamed. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #19

Some folks are so wrapped up in their own imagined grievances they can't see nomorenomore08 May 2013 #32

K&R Starry Messenger May 2013 #16

We arguably have a gun culture. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #21

Rape culture does exist. It is so massive that I find it hard to believe ANY ethical person... Gravitycollapse May 2013 #23

ty Whisp May 2013 #24

Ultimately millions of people suffer, who shouldn't have to suffer. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #34

It is not splitting hairs. It is identifying the source of the problem. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #37

I'll agree with that. But I was thinking more of the poster you replied to, who acknowledged nomorenomore08 May 2013 #42

It is apparent that most here consider it not hair splitting. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #187

I don't think anyone is outright blaming all men for the prevalence of sexual assault. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #198

You're either in denial or misunderstand what "culture" means in sociological terms. ellisonz May 2013 #29

Thank you for not holding your tongue. UtahLib May 2013 #39

If we have a rape culture, it is one that is diminishing, not growing. Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #43

There are some other indicators though that suggest it's a mixed bag in terms of progress. ellisonz May 2013 #44

Well, this is a 15-year trend through 2010. I don't know if there is more recent data. Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #45

Whether the numbers are "good" is a matter of expectation... ellisonz May 2013 #46

It is not a matter of if. We do have a rape culture. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #47

rape culture is growing by leaps and bounds in the military Whisp May 2013 #51

"Take some Sociology" opiate69 May 2013 #55

You're opposed to sociology as a discipline? ellisonz May 2013 #56

Well, to narrow it down, I'm more opposed to qualitative design as sociological research methodology opiate69 May 2013 #58

So you're arguing that "rape culture" can exist as a social fact because it's theoretically wrong? ellisonz May 2013 #59

I'm saying, at least in our (American) society... opiate69 May 2013 #60

I don't think you're well-read on this topic at all... ellisonz May 2013 #62

Ahh.. more logical fallacy from the soft-science cultists... opiate69 May 2013 #63

So in short - you haven't. ellisonz May 2013 #64

Oh, you're just too cute when you try to be condescending. opiate69 May 2013 #65

I'm gonna need a "Logical Fallacy Bingo Card" to keep this manure straight... opiate69 May 2013 #112

It's ad hominem. With an 'e'. redqueen May 2013 #135

Google probably did not point that out. Rex May 2013 #166

I imagine it is indeed, rather convenient to dismiss an academic discipline LanternWaste May 2013 #123

Yummy.. Ad Hominum, with a side of Association Fallacy. I'm almost at Bingo! opiate69 May 2013 #125

Nothing says "I barely made it out of high school" quite like dropping "logical fallacy" buzzwords.. DanTex May 2013 #127

... opiate69 May 2013 #128

Misspelling and unnecessarily capitalizing the terms doesn't exactly help, either. nt redqueen May 2013 #136

Such are the perils of posting from a cheap phone while at work.. opiate69 May 2013 #137

Yes, the phone made you misspell it. Twice. And it added the caps, too. redqueen May 2013 #138

Inattention and lack of a good spellcheck made me misspell it. opiate69 May 2013 #140

lol, yes, 'inattention' ... cause u and e are so close on the keypad. redqueen May 2013 #148

Paranoia... riiiiiight ... opiate69 May 2013 #188

lol. Democracyinkind May 2013 #152

LOL. That would be a "post hoc ergo propter hoc"... DanTex May 2013 #141

Yes .. because modern smart phones routinely have Latin in their spell check matrices.. opiate69 May 2013 #142

Spot on. Democracyinkind May 2013 #153

And that my friend... ellisonz May 2013 #155

Oh dear me, I've offended the epee..I mean degree measuring contest contingent! opiate69 May 2013 #157

"permapubescent Randians randomly selecting and re-vomiting buzzwords" redqueen May 2013 #158

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey May 2013 #171

Don't bother with this guy. This is the man who liberalhistorian May 2013 #164

You're right. ellisonz May 2013 #165

Everyone needs a hobby, I suppose. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #174

Followers? Cool! I thought I only had stalkers. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #173

If you don't like me telling the truth liberalhistorian May 2013 #203

Ignore? Heck no. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #204

It seems to me that benevolent chauvinists liberalhistorian May 2013 #205

You have no idea if rape has declined or if reporting it has declined. lunatica May 2013 #81

people are 85% less likely to self-report having been raped in the last 12 months compared to 1980. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #92

You do know that, even in this time, rapes go unreported. Skidmore May 2013 #83

Yes, and I hope that the progress that has been made continues into the future. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #106

How is it possible to disconnect rape from it's cultural underpinnings? Skidmore May 2013 #111

The same way the crime of bank robbery is disconnected from its cultural underpinnings. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #143

That is hogwash and doesn't hold together Skidmore May 2013 #154

What then is the relevant and objective number of rapes necessary... LanternWaste May 2013 #121

One... lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #144

Every woman in this country marions ghost May 2013 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author G_j May 2013 #26

"it's hard to get well when you don't recognize you are sick.." redqueen May 2013 #110

Was half thinking of a quote G_j May 2013 #160

Thanks for looking it up. redqueen May 2013 #169

K&R freshwest May 2013 #28

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you. ellisonz May 2013 #30

I don't think we fully understand what actually causes people to want to rape someone Hippo_Tron May 2013 #38

I agree. ellisonz May 2013 #40

I think some sub-cultures that encourage it and some explicitly tolerate it Hippo_Tron May 2013 #170

Treating women as equitable human beings... Gravitycollapse May 2013 #41

+1000 ellisonz May 2013 #156

K&R. nt DLevine May 2013 #48

i don't believe a "rape culture" exists. galileoreloaded May 2013 #54

"...special protections for some detract from us all." - What a load of manure. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #57

meh, your opinion. its all good man. galileoreloaded May 2013 #61

"That is a meme right out of the right-wing playbook." redqueen May 2013 #113

Used by those who wish to defend: geek tragedy May 2013 #114

Yes that's exactly how I've seen it used. redqueen May 2013 #131

Also not used to seeing at DU: geek tragedy May 2013 #132

Ugh, geez, I forgot about that one. nt redqueen May 2013 #134

What special protections? BainsBane May 2013 #66

I can't be the only one who thinks the special protections statement stinks to the high heavens? Gravitycollapse May 2013 #68

I don't even know what it's supposed to mean BainsBane May 2013 #69

i dont reduce human victims to a gender identity. pretty clear.nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #71

So what special protections? BainsBane May 2013 #72

re-read what you just wrote and find that intellectual leap in galileoreloaded May 2013 #74

explain what you mean then BainsBane May 2013 #76

men are 3 times more likely to be murder victims than females galileoreloaded May 2013 #89

Because it's other men doing those killings. Ergo not a gender issue. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #91

you just made my point. thank you. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #95

You have a point. An idiotic point, but you do have it. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #96

i point out your sexism and you call me an idiot. expected. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #98

yawn. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #101

No. redqueen May 2013 #115

Can you guess the movie reference? nt geek tragedy May 2013 #139

Nope, redqueen May 2013 #150

All About Eve. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #151

Now it's sexism to point out the fact that BainsBane May 2013 #147

nope. its in denigrating the victim because of the gender of the attacker. disgusting. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #161

Who did that? BainsBane May 2013 #162

besides, you said you didn't see gender BainsBane May 2013 #163

Because this is an OP about rape culture sufrommich May 2013 #94

right, its my problem. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #97

it does appear you have a problem in Whisp May 2013 #122

Your problem is you're afraid to say what you really think BainsBane May 2013 #149

Yep. nt redqueen May 2013 #159

So your issue is that we should not talk about a rape culture BainsBane May 2013 #145

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #207

Well then I guess I have a "personal agenda" as well, because Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #85

most likely you do have an agenda. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #90

As do you. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #93

lol. equalist. galileoreloaded May 2013 #99

Bullshit. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #102

this so-called equalist also pushes the notion that gender stereotypes geek tragedy May 2013 #105

Tells me all I need to know. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #107

Yep. Mandatory Rail Accident. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #108

! Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #109

bazinga nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #167

Bull shit BainsBane May 2013 #146

oooh, tell us about these "special protections for some" !! We need to know what "detracts from bettyellen May 2013 #67

i dont reduce human victims to a gender identity. pretty clear.nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #70

not even slightly BainsBane May 2013 #73

sheesh. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #75

Is it really so difficult to say what you mean? BainsBane May 2013 #77

If multiple people are in fact, unclear as to what you mean by "special considerations", LanternWaste May 2013 #126

Do not feed. geek tragedy May 2013 #133

Wow. "Issues with women" is putting it mildly. Bordering on psychopathic. DanTex May 2013 #190

who does protecting rape victims detract from- the perps? not clear at all. bettyellen May 2013 #199

What "special protections" do you object to, regarding rape? DanTex May 2013 #130

WTF are you on about? smirkymonkey May 2013 #172

well, you seem new and despite being rude, i'll educate on my ideas galileoreloaded May 2013 #175

You make absolutely no sense. smirkymonkey May 2013 #178

its how educated people talk.. what can I say (shrug) nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #182

LOL. No, that's not how educated people talk. It's gibberish. DanTex May 2013 #189

Educated? I would think that you had not have made it out smirkymonkey May 2013 #191

Despite about 10 requests for you to specify what special protections you are referring to, Squinch May 2013 #179

lol. musta squinched it outta my butt eh? sheesh. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #180

Still no answer, I see. Squinch May 2013 #181

i DID answer. you cant understand me. what else should I do? galileoreloaded May 2013 #183

Again, still no answer. Squinch May 2013 #184

Again, i cant help it if you cant understand. good luck. nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #185

Sigh. And STILL no answer. Squinch May 2013 #186

rape culture is about attitude toward a crime BainsBane May 2013 #192

"So what about rapists do you feel needs protecting?" won't work on me. galileoreloaded May 2013 #193

Word salad. Nothing you say makes any sense. smirkymonkey May 2013 #206

I too am a child rape survivor lunatica May 2013 #79

We must because not doing so Skidmore May 2013 #80

And keeping it hidden and a secret lunatica May 2013 #82

Indeed. And it can become Skidmore May 2013 #84

K&R redqueen May 2013 #100

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2013 #104

Rape is a dominance issue, not sex. haele May 2013 #118

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2013 #120

One rapist can affect many victims. haele May 2013 #124

I am so sorry this happened to you, Skidmore. Lunacee_2013 May 2013 #176

I am so very sorry you suffered such a horrifying experience. niyad May 2013 #194