General Discussion

sarisataka

(23,144 posts)

26. we may agree and disagree at the same time

Tue May 14, 2013, 12:50 PM

May 2013

Agreement in that the lowest achievable homicide rate is a good thing and there are things we can do to lower it more that have not yet been done in the US. It is worthwhile examining what has worked in other countries which may be applied to the US.

We probably overlap and disagree on what those things are. Also we may disagree that an increase in violent crime is acceptable exchange for a lower homicide rate. In certain crimes it is a no brainer but would a tripling of incidences of rape justify a 75% decrease in homicide; IMO no. Not to say it would happen but we must consider unintended consequences.

Another issue with the UK (or any other country) v. US is differences in categorizing crime and how it is reported. Some use arrests to determine crime even if the accused is eventually acquitted; other use convictions as their criteria for reporting crime. So we must always keep in mind we not doing 1:1 comparisons. The US has a higher homicide rate but... The UK has a higher violent crime rate but... Japan has a higher suicide rate but... and so on.

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London: a case study in the effectiveness of gun control. [View all] DanTex May 2013 OP

So repeal the 2nd Amendment already. badtoworse May 2013 #1

What were the homicide rates before gun bans? Eleanors38 May 2013 #2

The most recent major tightening of gun laws in the UK was in 1997. DanTex May 2013 #4

which is a real testement to Londoners! zerosumgame0005 May 2013 #17

Britain has always been pretty tightly regulated visavis guns,. truebluegreen May 2013 #5

There are also a few other before/after case studies to look at. DanTex May 2013 #6

But how will Londoners fight back when the Queen takes away their rights? mainer May 2013 #3

Respectfully, premium May 2013 #7

The only way to get change is to challenge the status quo. DanTex May 2013 #8

That may be, premium May 2013 #9

I agree with you there. DanTex May 2013 #10

Hopefully we'll get there with UBC soon, premium May 2013 #12

It is pretty close to the truth. Democracyinkind May 2013 #11

True, premium May 2013 #14

Granted, agree. nt. Democracyinkind May 2013 #21

At least the US trend is fewer families have guns mainer May 2013 #18

Not quite sure if that's true, premium May 2013 #19

There Is A Way To Do It ChoppinBroccoli May 2013 #20

I agree, premium May 2013 #22

People need to decide human life has value BainsBane May 2013 #30

While I generally agree with you, premium May 2013 #33

I agree BainsBane May 2013 #35

They have a high amount of stabbings though..and you can always get a gun fairly easy HipChick May 2013 #13

Stabbings are much less lethal than shootings. Part of why the homicide rate is so low. DanTex May 2013 #15

True, very true. premium May 2013 #16

Say, that's pretty good! rrneck May 2013 #23

Is it just guns or does violence matter? sarisataka May 2013 #24

Exactly. Despite higher general levels of violent crime, the UK has far less murder. DanTex May 2013 #25

we may agree and disagree at the same time sarisataka May 2013 #26

I'm not arguing that the UK is overall a better place to live. DanTex May 2013 #27

London has a higher violent crime rate than *any* US city on your list. SlipperySlope May 2013 #28

That's not accurate. DanTex May 2013 #29

This is the Wiki data I am citing... SlipperySlope May 2013 #31

It's not clear that "violence against the person" as measured in the UK is at all the same thing DanTex May 2013 #34

ooookay. sibelian May 2013 #36

Consequences are a valid topic of discussion. SlipperySlope May 2013 #37

That's all very interesting, but it's not really the subject under discussion, is it? sibelian May 2013 #38

There is no mechanism whereby reducing guns would increase homicide rates. DanTex May 2013 #39

U.S. owners don't want to save lives. They want reduce SS expenditures. Dead is better for them. nt valerief May 2013 #32

Rising now, was lowest around early-mid 20th century One_Life_To_Give May 2013 #40

Yes, the gun culture in the US probably has something to do with it. DanTex May 2013 #41

Thank you so much for your posts on ths subject etherealtruth May 2013 #42