General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

156. The point is that any artificial risk you put in front of those bottom tier needs is meaningless

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:07 PM

May 2013

They are so basic to a human being that humans will ultimately risk anything to get them and so we should do our best to take any and all risk out of the way of those needs.

Over the course of history people have risked any and all kinds of things for sex and sexual intimacy. If a woman can absolve herself of the responsibility it is inherently unfair that a man cannot do the same.

We can discuss all kinds of hypotheticals that illustrate the point. If abortion was made illegal and the custody laws were changed so that men always got custody, would it be fair to say to women, sorry, for the sin of having sex and risking pregnancy, you are forced to bear the child and then pay for the man to be with the child if you dont want to be with the man anymore?

That's really the other way of saying this. You bad person you risked this sin and now you may have to pay. Haven't we evolved past that?

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Pregnant girlfriend tricked into taking abortion pill; 'The baby was lost [View all] Baitball Blogger May 2013 OP

Trying to avoid paternity expenses, now he MineralMan May 2013 #1

More than some time. He's facing life in prison. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #19

That's pretty grim nt el_bryanto May 2013 #2

Wow. Well, with "Plan B" available over the counter, there will probably be more of this. IdaBriggs May 2013 #3

I thought the same thing. Puzzledtraveller May 2013 #4

Plan B is not an "abortion pill." Plan B prevents pregnancy. n/t BeeBee May 2013 #5

I know that Puzzledtraveller May 2013 #6

Yep... this is a "skeevy" story.. SoCalDem May 2013 #8

The article doesn't mention Plan B. EOTE May 2013 #11

In this case, the drug used was "Cytotec". IdaBriggs May 2013 #24

Plan B would do NOTHING HockeyMom May 2013 #154

Me, too. Idiots are everywhere, tho, and we can all see this coming. IdaBriggs May 2013 #15

Plan B does not cause an abortion. Brickbat May 2013 #7

Yes, I know that. Your average IDIOT (of which there are a lot) does not. IdaBriggs May 2013 #20

Plan B doesn't terminate pregrancy. ZombieHorde May 2013 #83

Maybe, but Plan B won't stop any preexisting pregnancies. n/t pnwmom May 2013 #97

Or your last name could be Castro Sheepshank May 2013 #9

This sounds fishy libodem May 2013 #10

Here's some info. Brickbat May 2013 #12

Thank you libodem May 2013 #14

Been around for years. Google: RU486 kestrel91316 May 2013 #30

thank you libodem May 2013 #32

AFAIK,there's not really an abortion pill. Plan B prevents pregnancy, so no abortion. librechik May 2013 #13

Guess what, there is CBGLuthier May 2013 #16

if true it must be quite dangerous to the woman librechik May 2013 #22

We "heard a lot more" about RU-486 when it became available back in the late 80s. Brickbat May 2013 #23

It is an option for unwanted pregnancies. Codeine May 2013 #170

There is a time limit on using misoprostol in Ilsa May 2013 #172

There is an abortion pill. Brickbat May 2013 #21

RU486 has been around for probably 20 years, IIRC. kestrel91316 May 2013 #29

No, there are two different pills. One causes abortions; the other is Plan B pnwmom May 2013 #98

I'm glad he's been charged with murder (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #17

Nye libodem May 2013 #35

OK, I see your point. Nye Bevan May 2013 #37

Some punishment is clearly libodem May 2013 #38

I am not. The "Protection of Unborn Children Act" is prolife bullshit PeaceNikki May 2013 #39

Exactly and thank you. It is assault against the woman. uppityperson May 2013 #165

Should be assault mwrguy May 2013 #44

I think the charge should be unlawful abortion treestar May 2013 #69

With all due respect. No way. PeaceNikki May 2013 #101

I as thinking more along the distinction of calling it something other than murder treestar May 2013 #164

Agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #167

He gets to be an inmate for most of his adult life instead of a father. geek tragedy May 2013 #18

This is like something out of South Park... TheMightyFavog May 2013 #25

He should've gotten the snip instead of going through all this trouble... Blue_Tires May 2013 #26

Because he's a cruel dumbass. Brickbat May 2013 #27

yeah what a sociopath...this story had more detailed background... Blue_Tires May 2013 #31

This is an important point. PotatoChip May 2013 #56

That's a touchy point. Xithras May 2013 #57

I am strongly pro-choice, PotatoChip May 2013 #62

Even though it has been twisted into an anti-abortion arguement Blue_Tires May 2013 #94

This crime will be used to try to deny it to all women. kestrel91316 May 2013 #28

That is what I'm afraid of libodem May 2013 #33

Agreed. The "Protection of Unborn Children Act" is prolife bullshit as are any/all 'fetal homicide' PeaceNikki May 2013 #40

I agree. This is aggravated battery. We don't need prolife BS to prosecute this. stevenleser May 2013 #48

How? They have already "shot" themselves in the foot.. SomethingFishy May 2013 #81

Lowlife scumbag. He deserves a long sentence. badtoworse May 2013 #34

Yes libodem May 2013 #36

The father never prescribed it. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #41

The father didn't prescribe it. The son forged his signature. n/t RebelOne May 2013 #42

"Muldrow said Welden admitted to the court's pretrial services that he had used marijuana daily" KamaAina May 2013 #43

I think it should take both parties to agree before abortion can be done. cbdo2007 May 2013 #45

Disagree in the strongest possible way MadrasT May 2013 #46

To each their own. cbdo2007 May 2013 #47

See my post #56 upthread. PotatoChip May 2013 #58

BINGO. A man irresponsible enough to father a child he doesn't want brought child support on himself MotherPetrie May 2013 #60

Yet ideally, bayareamike May 2013 #146

And in most cases it is but any legislation to seek that it MUST be done is VERY dangerous. PeaceNikki May 2013 #147

Cry me a river MattBaggins May 2013 #61

Disagree Blue_Tires May 2013 #99

You are assuming the women are ok with this decision..... cbdo2007 May 2013 #103

I get your general sentiment Blue_Tires May 2013 #117

Of course it has no liklihood of ever being a reality.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #121

I'm just saying Blue_Tires May 2013 #126

If they can't come to an agreement, then mandatory abortion. Incredible. uppityperson May 2013 #176

One of the most asinine posts I have ever read on DU. IdaBriggs May 2013 #185

The answer to that is called "celibacy" - one of the risks of sex is pregnancy. IdaBriggs May 2013 #184

Sounds like a Repube, pro-life argument to me.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #187

That is utter bullshit. The person with the uterus gets to make the final call. Arugula Latte May 2013 #49

Hahahaha, nice. "The man can obstain or make sure the condom doesn't break." cbdo2007 May 2013 #51

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #52

She doesn't??? cbdo2007 May 2013 #54

Well, yeah. HappyMe May 2013 #59

Right. Make every effort to get good birth control. Arugula Latte May 2013 #63

the woman took the same chance treestar May 2013 #71

Men do have an absolute right to have sex without babies MattBaggins May 2013 #74

Not in the US now treestar May 2013 #85

Men can make it so they can not get a woman pregnant. MattBaggins May 2013 #86

And a woman can't? The Straight Story May 2013 #88

His body is not involved in the 9 month deal treestar May 2013 #90

Understood The Straight Story May 2013 #93

Hers for 18 years, too. treestar May 2013 #95

When the father has custody Mariana May 2013 #104

True, but she is the sole decision maker when it comes to affecting both lives The Straight Story May 2013 #114

There is one way treestar May 2013 #89

I know two guys who have conceived after a vasectomy. cbdo2007 May 2013 #96

Really!!! onpatrol98 May 2013 #135

Oh sure you have. If a guy got pregnant, it'd be on the news, uppityperson May 2013 #177

I know of several laundry_queen May 2013 #181

I know of one: he went straight home and tried out his new Ilsa May 2013 #188

And women can also make it HappyMe May 2013 #91

No, they can't jeff47 May 2013 #169

Yeah, to me this is where HappyMe May 2013 #87

He's also screwed where he wants the kid and she won't have it treestar May 2013 #92

I don't. Chan790 May 2013 #50

Excellent response!! cbdo2007 May 2013 #53

They should have some kind of agreement MattBaggins May 2013 #64

Yes. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #68

My best friend was the child of those kinds of nitwits. Chan790 May 2013 #73

I think that is probably most fair, but have no illusions about what this would cause. stevenleser May 2013 #55

Unfortunately I know what you mean... Chan790 May 2013 #67

Steven, it's not fair to the CHILDREN. pnwmom May 2013 #107

I agree. I meant most fair to the parents. stevenleser May 2013 #109

But when men decide to have sex, they know what the possible outcomes are. pnwmom May 2013 #113

So do the women. They also know the possible outcomes. stevenleser May 2013 #115

Yes, both men and women know the possible outcomes. pnwmom May 2013 #134

Most of what you wrote is right. But... stevenleser May 2013 #136

I'm not saying that, by virtue of having sex, a man is saying that he doesn't object pnwmom May 2013 #139

+1 onpatrol98 May 2013 #141

No, he hasn't put that objection aside either or accepted the risk. stevenleser May 2013 #142

Give me a break. Vaginal sexual intercourse isn't equivalent to breathing air or eating food. pnwmom May 2013 #148

I take my definition of what is and is not a need from Maslow, not you. He says it is a need stevenleser May 2013 #151

Maslow is dead anyway. So what does he know? pnwmom May 2013 #153

The point is that any artificial risk you put in front of those bottom tier needs is meaningless stevenleser May 2013 #156

What is the "artificial risk" you're talking about? pnwmom May 2013 #159

An artificial risk is one that man created through laws, not a risk arising out of nature. nt stevenleser May 2013 #163

Women are 14 times more likely to DIE carrying a child to term vs terminating and you think it PeaceNikki May 2013 #143

Thats interesting but not related to the discussion. nt stevenleser May 2013 #144

Of course it is. PeaceNikki May 2013 #145

That still has nothing to do with what is being discussed. nt stevenleser May 2013 #157

It's absolutely pertinent to the discussion. See post 148. pnwmom May 2013 #149

It's not pertinent, unless what you were telling me earlier was something you dont believe. stevenleser May 2013 #158

The two aren't contradictory. pnwmom May 2013 #160

There are several obvious conflicts of interest. stevenleser May 2013 #162

Good thing the courts are concerned with the child MattBaggins May 2013 #65

They dont actually, if both parents agree. They can put the child up for adoption. nt stevenleser May 2013 #66

Abandonment laws do allow the parents to "walk away free and clear." cbdo2007 May 2013 #70

A child is better off if at least one of his parents loves him and doesn't abandon him. pnwmom May 2013 #111

I just see it as nature left it "unfair" as the woman is always the one to get pregnant treestar May 2013 #72

Physically bearing a child takes 9 months.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #75

It's not the timing treestar May 2013 #84

And it changes your body forever and in some cases can actually kill you. pnwmom May 2013 #150

Mother's responsibility goes on for far longer than 9 months. I'm thinking you must be messing with uppityperson May 2013 #179

Yeah, except for the millions of CHILDREN who would NOT benefit, pnwmom May 2013 #102

I agree, but only in the first few weeks. Xithras May 2013 #116

Good points!! cbdo2007 May 2013 #119

You'll still run into the roadblocks I mentioned in #117 Blue_Tires May 2013 #122

How, exactly, would you do that in practice? Mariana May 2013 #76

Thank you for asking.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #100

You're #3 is where the buck stops. Know why? PRIVACY!! PeaceNikki May 2013 #112

Hahaha, Good God, #3 wasn't even part of the original discussion.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #118

Thank Jeebus we don't live in Cbdo2007istan. PeaceNikki May 2013 #123

I know, right!! cbdo2007 May 2013 #132

Oh, here's another question. Mariana May 2013 #120

I'm happy to play along.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #127

Thanks for answering. Mariana May 2013 #152

Sure, since the pregnancy takes place inside both bodies. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #106

fuck that. PeaceNikki May 2013 #110

Are you allowed to tout anti-choice bullshit on DU? morningfog May 2013 #124

I'm all for abortion. You just can't tout pro-life bullshit on DU. cbdo2007 May 2013 #128

but you want to deny women autonomy? PeaceNikki May 2013 #140

You are anti choice. morningfog May 2013 #161

Haha, not really. I think it's just a different version of choice. cbdo2007 May 2013 #171

Yeah, the version of choice where the woman has none. morningfog May 2013 #173

Read some of the other responses above yours....I've explained it a few times cbdo2007 May 2013 #183

How does dictating "both parties agree before abortion can be done" in any way "Choice"? uppityperson May 2013 #175

the only time that a man should be involved in the decision... PeaceNikki May 2013 #130

Like when she has sex with him? cbdo2007 May 2013 #131

At most, the father should have the right to "abort" his paternity marshall May 2013 #133

or to stop a termination PeaceNikki May 2013 #137

Only if it's in his body marshall May 2013 #138

Agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author The DUzy Awards May 2013 #77

sorry, i needed to read article KittyWampus May 2013 #78

Does Florida have a statute that goes after MDs who lose control of their prescription pads? jmowreader May 2013 #79

Not that this is in any way the same situation Flying Squirrel May 2013 #80

In Ohio, that's aggravated (premeditated) murder. Deep13 May 2013 #82

It was NOT a baby. It was a 6 week along fetus. big difference. cali May 2013 #105

No. It's assault on the WOMAN. PeaceNikki May 2013 #108

Agreed. morningfog May 2013 #125

Aggravated battery on the woman. Perhaps sexual assault in that it involves her reproductive system. stevenleser May 2013 #129

Depends on the state law. Deep13 May 2013 #178

no it doesn't. a fetus is not a baby. It cannot conceivably survive outside the womb. cali May 2013 #182

How do they infringe on the woman's right to choose? Deep13 May 2013 #186

Does one have to be a certain age before being able to read between the lines in... Poll_Blind May 2013 #155

Maybe so. Mariana May 2013 #166

This absolutely IS murder True Earthling May 2013 #174

Depends on the state law. Deep13 May 2013 #180