General Discussion

True Earthling

(832 posts)

174. This absolutely IS murder

Reply to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:51 PM

May 2013

I'm pro-choice but the dynamics of this case are much different. She was expecting to birth this baby. She already had a name picked out. She was probably dreaming about mothering this child. Objectively anyone can say that it was a fetus...but in her mind this was a human being she was carrying. That's the important distinction. The loss of her baby has to be devastating... I doubt that anyone could convince her that "it's just a fetus". Based on the loss she suffered by this act I would equate it to murder. I believe this crime has to be judged from harm that was done to the victims - mother AND baby. This woman lost a baby that she wanted... to her the baby was real and that's how it should be viewed by those judging the severity of this crime.

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Pregnant girlfriend tricked into taking abortion pill; 'The baby was lost [View all] Baitball Blogger May 2013 OP

Trying to avoid paternity expenses, now he MineralMan May 2013 #1

More than some time. He's facing life in prison. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #19

That's pretty grim nt el_bryanto May 2013 #2

Wow. Well, with "Plan B" available over the counter, there will probably be more of this. IdaBriggs May 2013 #3

I thought the same thing. Puzzledtraveller May 2013 #4

Plan B is not an "abortion pill." Plan B prevents pregnancy. n/t BeeBee May 2013 #5

I know that Puzzledtraveller May 2013 #6

Yep... this is a "skeevy" story.. SoCalDem May 2013 #8

The article doesn't mention Plan B. EOTE May 2013 #11

In this case, the drug used was "Cytotec". IdaBriggs May 2013 #24

Plan B would do NOTHING HockeyMom May 2013 #154

Me, too. Idiots are everywhere, tho, and we can all see this coming. IdaBriggs May 2013 #15

Plan B does not cause an abortion. Brickbat May 2013 #7

Yes, I know that. Your average IDIOT (of which there are a lot) does not. IdaBriggs May 2013 #20

Plan B doesn't terminate pregrancy. ZombieHorde May 2013 #83

Maybe, but Plan B won't stop any preexisting pregnancies. n/t pnwmom May 2013 #97

Or your last name could be Castro Sheepshank May 2013 #9

This sounds fishy libodem May 2013 #10

Here's some info. Brickbat May 2013 #12

Thank you libodem May 2013 #14

Been around for years. Google: RU486 kestrel91316 May 2013 #30

thank you libodem May 2013 #32

AFAIK,there's not really an abortion pill. Plan B prevents pregnancy, so no abortion. librechik May 2013 #13

Guess what, there is CBGLuthier May 2013 #16

if true it must be quite dangerous to the woman librechik May 2013 #22

We "heard a lot more" about RU-486 when it became available back in the late 80s. Brickbat May 2013 #23

It is an option for unwanted pregnancies. Codeine May 2013 #170

There is a time limit on using misoprostol in Ilsa May 2013 #172

There is an abortion pill. Brickbat May 2013 #21

RU486 has been around for probably 20 years, IIRC. kestrel91316 May 2013 #29

No, there are two different pills. One causes abortions; the other is Plan B pnwmom May 2013 #98

I'm glad he's been charged with murder (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #17

Nye libodem May 2013 #35

OK, I see your point. Nye Bevan May 2013 #37

Some punishment is clearly libodem May 2013 #38

I am not. The "Protection of Unborn Children Act" is prolife bullshit PeaceNikki May 2013 #39

Exactly and thank you. It is assault against the woman. uppityperson May 2013 #165

Should be assault mwrguy May 2013 #44

I think the charge should be unlawful abortion treestar May 2013 #69

With all due respect. No way. PeaceNikki May 2013 #101

I as thinking more along the distinction of calling it something other than murder treestar May 2013 #164

Agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #167

He gets to be an inmate for most of his adult life instead of a father. geek tragedy May 2013 #18

This is like something out of South Park... TheMightyFavog May 2013 #25

He should've gotten the snip instead of going through all this trouble... Blue_Tires May 2013 #26

Because he's a cruel dumbass. Brickbat May 2013 #27

yeah what a sociopath...this story had more detailed background... Blue_Tires May 2013 #31

This is an important point. PotatoChip May 2013 #56

That's a touchy point. Xithras May 2013 #57

I am strongly pro-choice, PotatoChip May 2013 #62

Even though it has been twisted into an anti-abortion arguement Blue_Tires May 2013 #94

This crime will be used to try to deny it to all women. kestrel91316 May 2013 #28

That is what I'm afraid of libodem May 2013 #33

Agreed. The "Protection of Unborn Children Act" is prolife bullshit as are any/all 'fetal homicide' PeaceNikki May 2013 #40

I agree. This is aggravated battery. We don't need prolife BS to prosecute this. stevenleser May 2013 #48

How? They have already "shot" themselves in the foot.. SomethingFishy May 2013 #81

Lowlife scumbag. He deserves a long sentence. badtoworse May 2013 #34

Yes libodem May 2013 #36

The father never prescribed it. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #41

The father didn't prescribe it. The son forged his signature. n/t RebelOne May 2013 #42

"Muldrow said Welden admitted to the court's pretrial services that he had used marijuana daily" KamaAina May 2013 #43

I think it should take both parties to agree before abortion can be done. cbdo2007 May 2013 #45

Disagree in the strongest possible way MadrasT May 2013 #46

To each their own. cbdo2007 May 2013 #47

See my post #56 upthread. PotatoChip May 2013 #58

BINGO. A man irresponsible enough to father a child he doesn't want brought child support on himself MotherPetrie May 2013 #60

Yet ideally, bayareamike May 2013 #146

And in most cases it is but any legislation to seek that it MUST be done is VERY dangerous. PeaceNikki May 2013 #147

Cry me a river MattBaggins May 2013 #61

Disagree Blue_Tires May 2013 #99

You are assuming the women are ok with this decision..... cbdo2007 May 2013 #103

I get your general sentiment Blue_Tires May 2013 #117

Of course it has no liklihood of ever being a reality.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #121

I'm just saying Blue_Tires May 2013 #126

If they can't come to an agreement, then mandatory abortion. Incredible. uppityperson May 2013 #176

One of the most asinine posts I have ever read on DU. IdaBriggs May 2013 #185

The answer to that is called "celibacy" - one of the risks of sex is pregnancy. IdaBriggs May 2013 #184

Sounds like a Repube, pro-life argument to me.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #187

That is utter bullshit. The person with the uterus gets to make the final call. Arugula Latte May 2013 #49

Hahahaha, nice. "The man can obstain or make sure the condom doesn't break." cbdo2007 May 2013 #51

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #52

She doesn't??? cbdo2007 May 2013 #54

Well, yeah. HappyMe May 2013 #59

Right. Make every effort to get good birth control. Arugula Latte May 2013 #63

the woman took the same chance treestar May 2013 #71

Men do have an absolute right to have sex without babies MattBaggins May 2013 #74

Not in the US now treestar May 2013 #85

Men can make it so they can not get a woman pregnant. MattBaggins May 2013 #86

And a woman can't? The Straight Story May 2013 #88

His body is not involved in the 9 month deal treestar May 2013 #90

Understood The Straight Story May 2013 #93

Hers for 18 years, too. treestar May 2013 #95

When the father has custody Mariana May 2013 #104

True, but she is the sole decision maker when it comes to affecting both lives The Straight Story May 2013 #114

There is one way treestar May 2013 #89

I know two guys who have conceived after a vasectomy. cbdo2007 May 2013 #96

Really!!! onpatrol98 May 2013 #135

Oh sure you have. If a guy got pregnant, it'd be on the news, uppityperson May 2013 #177

I know of several laundry_queen May 2013 #181

I know of one: he went straight home and tried out his new Ilsa May 2013 #188

And women can also make it HappyMe May 2013 #91

No, they can't jeff47 May 2013 #169

Yeah, to me this is where HappyMe May 2013 #87

He's also screwed where he wants the kid and she won't have it treestar May 2013 #92

I don't. Chan790 May 2013 #50

Excellent response!! cbdo2007 May 2013 #53

They should have some kind of agreement MattBaggins May 2013 #64

Yes. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #68

My best friend was the child of those kinds of nitwits. Chan790 May 2013 #73

I think that is probably most fair, but have no illusions about what this would cause. stevenleser May 2013 #55

Unfortunately I know what you mean... Chan790 May 2013 #67

Steven, it's not fair to the CHILDREN. pnwmom May 2013 #107

I agree. I meant most fair to the parents. stevenleser May 2013 #109

But when men decide to have sex, they know what the possible outcomes are. pnwmom May 2013 #113

So do the women. They also know the possible outcomes. stevenleser May 2013 #115

Yes, both men and women know the possible outcomes. pnwmom May 2013 #134

Most of what you wrote is right. But... stevenleser May 2013 #136

I'm not saying that, by virtue of having sex, a man is saying that he doesn't object pnwmom May 2013 #139

+1 onpatrol98 May 2013 #141

No, he hasn't put that objection aside either or accepted the risk. stevenleser May 2013 #142

Give me a break. Vaginal sexual intercourse isn't equivalent to breathing air or eating food. pnwmom May 2013 #148

I take my definition of what is and is not a need from Maslow, not you. He says it is a need stevenleser May 2013 #151

Maslow is dead anyway. So what does he know? pnwmom May 2013 #153

The point is that any artificial risk you put in front of those bottom tier needs is meaningless stevenleser May 2013 #156

What is the "artificial risk" you're talking about? pnwmom May 2013 #159

An artificial risk is one that man created through laws, not a risk arising out of nature. nt stevenleser May 2013 #163

Women are 14 times more likely to DIE carrying a child to term vs terminating and you think it PeaceNikki May 2013 #143

Thats interesting but not related to the discussion. nt stevenleser May 2013 #144

Of course it is. PeaceNikki May 2013 #145

That still has nothing to do with what is being discussed. nt stevenleser May 2013 #157

It's absolutely pertinent to the discussion. See post 148. pnwmom May 2013 #149

It's not pertinent, unless what you were telling me earlier was something you dont believe. stevenleser May 2013 #158

The two aren't contradictory. pnwmom May 2013 #160

There are several obvious conflicts of interest. stevenleser May 2013 #162

Good thing the courts are concerned with the child MattBaggins May 2013 #65

They dont actually, if both parents agree. They can put the child up for adoption. nt stevenleser May 2013 #66

Abandonment laws do allow the parents to "walk away free and clear." cbdo2007 May 2013 #70

A child is better off if at least one of his parents loves him and doesn't abandon him. pnwmom May 2013 #111

I just see it as nature left it "unfair" as the woman is always the one to get pregnant treestar May 2013 #72

Physically bearing a child takes 9 months.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #75

It's not the timing treestar May 2013 #84

And it changes your body forever and in some cases can actually kill you. pnwmom May 2013 #150

Mother's responsibility goes on for far longer than 9 months. I'm thinking you must be messing with uppityperson May 2013 #179

Yeah, except for the millions of CHILDREN who would NOT benefit, pnwmom May 2013 #102

I agree, but only in the first few weeks. Xithras May 2013 #116

Good points!! cbdo2007 May 2013 #119

You'll still run into the roadblocks I mentioned in #117 Blue_Tires May 2013 #122

How, exactly, would you do that in practice? Mariana May 2013 #76

Thank you for asking.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #100

You're #3 is where the buck stops. Know why? PRIVACY!! PeaceNikki May 2013 #112

Hahaha, Good God, #3 wasn't even part of the original discussion.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #118

Thank Jeebus we don't live in Cbdo2007istan. PeaceNikki May 2013 #123

I know, right!! cbdo2007 May 2013 #132

Oh, here's another question. Mariana May 2013 #120

I'm happy to play along.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #127

Thanks for answering. Mariana May 2013 #152

Sure, since the pregnancy takes place inside both bodies. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #106

fuck that. PeaceNikki May 2013 #110

Are you allowed to tout anti-choice bullshit on DU? morningfog May 2013 #124

I'm all for abortion. You just can't tout pro-life bullshit on DU. cbdo2007 May 2013 #128

but you want to deny women autonomy? PeaceNikki May 2013 #140

You are anti choice. morningfog May 2013 #161

Haha, not really. I think it's just a different version of choice. cbdo2007 May 2013 #171

Yeah, the version of choice where the woman has none. morningfog May 2013 #173

Read some of the other responses above yours....I've explained it a few times cbdo2007 May 2013 #183

How does dictating "both parties agree before abortion can be done" in any way "Choice"? uppityperson May 2013 #175

the only time that a man should be involved in the decision... PeaceNikki May 2013 #130

Like when she has sex with him? cbdo2007 May 2013 #131

At most, the father should have the right to "abort" his paternity marshall May 2013 #133

or to stop a termination PeaceNikki May 2013 #137

Only if it's in his body marshall May 2013 #138

Agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author The DUzy Awards May 2013 #77

sorry, i needed to read article KittyWampus May 2013 #78

Does Florida have a statute that goes after MDs who lose control of their prescription pads? jmowreader May 2013 #79

Not that this is in any way the same situation Flying Squirrel May 2013 #80

In Ohio, that's aggravated (premeditated) murder. Deep13 May 2013 #82

It was NOT a baby. It was a 6 week along fetus. big difference. cali May 2013 #105

No. It's assault on the WOMAN. PeaceNikki May 2013 #108

Agreed. morningfog May 2013 #125

Aggravated battery on the woman. Perhaps sexual assault in that it involves her reproductive system. stevenleser May 2013 #129

Depends on the state law. Deep13 May 2013 #178

no it doesn't. a fetus is not a baby. It cannot conceivably survive outside the womb. cali May 2013 #182

How do they infringe on the woman's right to choose? Deep13 May 2013 #186

Does one have to be a certain age before being able to read between the lines in... Poll_Blind May 2013 #155

Maybe so. Mariana May 2013 #166

This absolutely IS murder True Earthling May 2013 #174

Depends on the state law. Deep13 May 2013 #180