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LostOne4Ever

(9,767 posts)
106. Lots of Abstracts
Mon May 20, 2013, 04:31 AM
May 2013

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull [div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]A 9-year (1979–88) review of fatal dog attacks in the United States determined that, of the 101 attacks in which breed was recorded, pit bulls were implicated in 42 of those attacks (42%). A 1991 study found that 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked, compared to 43% for other breeds. A 5-year (1989–94) review of fatal dog attacks in the U.S. determined that pit bulls and pit bull mixed breeds were implicated in 24 (29%) of the 84 deaths in which breed was recorded.

This again ignores that pitbulls are made of 4 different breeds (thus the percentage is 10.5%) and ignores population. Its also based on media reports which I showed in my previous link were unreliable.

For Source 27 I can not find more than an abstract to the study cited. That said they have more german shepards identified as attacking than pits in the first place (and treat all pits as a single breed). But 33 pits hardly sounds like a good sample size. I will concede that this suggests that they are more likely to attack unprovoked but I feel the sample size is too small want to find a copy of the full report before making any judgments

For the 5 year study they lump all 4 breeds of pitbull along with pitbull mixes to get their results and again ignores population. Again news sources were used to ID the dogs.


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]"A 15-year (1991–2005) review of dog attack fatalities investigated by the Kentucky Medical Examiner determined that pit bulls were implicated in 5 of the 11 fatal attacks (45%). Another 15-year (1994–2009) review of patients admitted to a Level I Trauma Center with dog bites determined that pit bulls were most often involved in these attacks: of the 228 patients treated, the breed of dog was recorded in 82 attacks, and of these, 29 (35%) of the attacks were by pit bulls (all other dogs combined accounted for the remaining 65% of attacks). In 45% of the attacks, the dog belonged to the victim's family. The authors wrote:

Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites. "

The 15 year reviews once again only shows the abstract however, even the abstract admits that they only did Forensic odontological examinations on the suspected dogs in 4 of the 11 cases from source 29. Any information beyond that requires access to the full article. The other says the breed was identified but not how. Again, further information requires access to the full article. Did these sources get their sources from Vets or from the News Media? But again treats pit bulls as a breed and does not take population into account, it uses a median numbers rather than means (why? Were there outliers? If there were Outliers on what side of the bell-curve were they?), and the mortality rate is too low to even get a representative sample.

I also want to note the EXTREMELY small numbers in this study. In 15 years they had 83 cases of attacks and only 3 fatalities. This is far from a representative sample.

FURTHER note what it says here:

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]However, concerns about the reliability of the study's data, its conclusions, its methodology, and its use of citations were raised in a later letter to the editor of Annals of Surgery, by Karen Delise, founder of the National Canine Research Council, a pit bull advocacy organization.

The next paragraph includes its own criticism in what you cited but from the source material you can once again only get the abstract. But from that we see that pitbulls are once again being treated as a single breed and ignoring population.

Paragraph after that again ignores breed/population and include part-breeds all of which throw off the results.

The second to last paragraph confirms what I have been saying about news based results, and the last paragraph is talking about the need of experts in legislation and the reliability of DNA testing.

So all in all, the info from source 27 is the only one that I admit shows any type of problem with the breed, and I still question their sample size and I still have not found a free version of the full article to see how they determined breed, their methodology, etc. If you have access to this information I will review it, till then I will have to look on the net for the full article.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

nurture brings out the true nature Voice for Peace May 2013 #1
Another... GoCubsGo May 2013 #2
Hearing Ira Glass talk about Piney is amazing. PeaceNikki May 2013 #3
So cute - the whole batch! Nt xchrom May 2013 #4
K&R With one comment. Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #5
Fionna Apple and Janet: The Letter (Hanky Alert!) demmiblue May 2013 #6
Here's another great link - Pit Bull heroes Hall of Fame PeaceNikki May 2013 #7
Yes, I suppose they can afford to go without homeowners insurance too ErikJ May 2013 #8
Automatically? Wednesdays May 2013 #9
HA! Like health insurance. They wont pay out if youre sued a couple Mill. ErikJ May 2013 #10
Will they pay if you are sued for what your st bernard did? uppityperson May 2013 #11
Probably. ErikJ May 2013 #22
Prove it. Show us any link to any national insurance carrier baldguy May 2013 #25
Many 'pitbulls' are not large. roody May 2013 #29
Exactly. uppityperson May 2013 #31
But insurance company might define them as such. It's going to depend on the company. baldguy May 2013 #32
He's lying. baldguy May 2013 #17
That's simply not true. PeaceNikki May 2013 #12
Sorry it is. Top 10 dangerous dogs disqualify ErikJ May 2013 #13
No, it's not. PeaceNikki May 2013 #15
THat's odd-State Farm asked me if I had any dangerous dog. ErikJ May 2013 #24
you can use the Internet for research too... snooper2 May 2013 #73
Of course you know that's a lie. baldguy May 2013 #16
My insurance company has never asked roody May 2013 #27
Well they sure do in my state. States have different standards I guess. ErikJ May 2013 #40
agents have their own standards. PeaceNikki May 2013 #43
Wil Wheaton's Seamus looks just like our dear departed Jocko. Whisp May 2013 #14
Wil has Marlowe too. baldguy May 2013 #33
Awesome! BainsBane May 2013 #18
my next dog. Jon Stewart lives his stuff. My hero, that roguevalley May 2013 #19
Yeah, for anyone who missed the slide show on HuffPo PeaceNikki May 2013 #21
Is it bad quakerboy May 2013 #20
The point is 99.9999999% of dogs that look like Pit Bulls **DON'T** and **WON'T** bite people. baldguy May 2013 #30
where did you get your information? Pit bulls bites are by far the most in number and BREMPRO May 2013 #77
First off LostOne4Ever May 2013 #79
Well, that pretty much puts all that to bed (to sleep?) DirkGently May 2013 #88
ok. so here's a more objective wikipedia link that sites numerous studies that support their BREMPRO May 2013 #89
You do realize that any numbnuts with an internet connection can edit Wikipedia? baldguy May 2013 #96
sure from dogbites. but the study was performed by JAMA, well respected for their adherence BREMPRO May 2013 #105
Probably because of the media LostOne4Ever May 2013 #107
Lots of Abstracts LostOne4Ever May 2013 #106
I delivered papers as a kid dsc May 2013 #110
Dogsbite,com is an anti-Pit Bull propaganda site, full of outright lies. baldguy May 2013 #82
are you saying their statistics are wrong? or simply misleading? BREMPRO May 2013 #85
According to Wikipedia LostOne4Ever May 2013 #108
Bullmastiffs (from the UK) and Presa Canarios (from Spain) are two entirely separate breeds Celerity Jun 2023 #111
Josh Hutcherson adopts pit bull ErikJ May 2013 #23
And as we all know whatchamacallit May 2013 #26
How many of these people are now dead from mauling since the pics were taken? Buzz Clik May 2013 #28
u forgot the sarcasm emotie. dogs are like people. good or bad, it's all in how they are trained. ellenfl May 2013 #35
Surely I didn't need the little sign! Buzz Clik May 2013 #36
Seems the genocidal dog haters lack the sarcasm gene. baldguy May 2013 #48
i thought you were being serious. sorry. eom ellenfl May 2013 #90
Now for a reality check: ErikJ May 2013 #41
And media reports are notoriously inaccurate when in reporting the breed in dog attack stories. baldguy May 2013 #42
there are plenty of threads shitting all over pits. kindly shit in one of those PeaceNikki May 2013 #44
There are plenty of shit on pit bull... one_voice May 2013 #50
Dog breeders are shit-STOP the insanity ErikJ May 2013 #51
And spreading lies about the majority of normal, well-adjusted, happy family dogs is evil. baldguy May 2013 #52
I was talking most specifically about the English Bull Dog but it does apply to other breeds as well ErikJ May 2013 #58
No, you weren't. You're just spreading shit. baldguy May 2013 #59
Breeding dogs to kill other dogs is equally bad or worse. ErikJ May 2013 #60
Look at the OP again. Just like 99.99999% of all dogs, not a killer in the bunch. baldguy May 2013 #61
Post removed Post removed May 2013 #63
The animal abusers are doing what you want them to do: punishing your guilty party. baldguy May 2013 #66
Yes! PEOPLE are the evil ones breeding killer dogs. ErikJ May 2013 #68
And 99.99999% aren't killers. Yet you want to do away with them anyway. baldguy May 2013 #69
Pit bulls are a product of MAN! NOT GOD! ErikJ May 2013 #70
So are horses. And they kill more people than dogs do each year. baldguy May 2013 #72
you should look into how many in the op were rescued. PeaceNikki May 2013 #53
Dog breeders you say? one_voice May 2013 #55
And if you look up further in the thread LostOne4Ever May 2013 #62
Oh boy, is the NRA branching into Pit bulls now? nt ErikJ May 2013 #64
If you think LostOne4Ever May 2013 #65
Too Absurd ErikJ May 2013 #67
You know those numbers are based on incorrect & inaccurate media reports. baldguy May 2013 #71
Your premise is absurd. flvegan May 2013 #74
That would require the NRA to have a sense of ethics. Scootaloo May 2013 #76
0% BainsBane May 2013 #46
OH MY GAWDS THOSE EVIL DAWGS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH!!! 1111 Apophis May 2013 #34
Why don't you just buy into the pitbull hysteria like everyone else!? Rex May 2013 #37
I've got this little girl to keep me grounded in reality. baldguy May 2013 #38
aw she's a beaut!!! Skittles May 2013 #80
She looks cute and dorkly! especially her ears! x darkangel218 May 2013 #81
Beautiful dog, I can tell you take great care of her. Rex May 2013 #93
she's beautiful! eom ellenfl May 2013 #94
Torrey Smith does fundraising for our Baltimore animal shelter shireen May 2013 #39
My baby girl pit does that too, and I call it "helicopter hinee" dorkzilla May 2013 #83
Welll golly gee willikers... 99Forever May 2013 #45
here`s a favorite of mine.. opiate69 May 2013 #47
Rachel Ray's dog looks like my Baby Girl susanr516 May 2013 #49
Ten minutes after the photoshoot, all of them died!!!!!! ZombieHorde May 2013 #54
Worse-their faces were ripped off. ErikJ May 2013 #56
Aaaahhhhh! nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #57
Sweet! I didn't know what to expect before I saw the photos... Quantess May 2013 #75
Our pit is the sweetest damn animal you'd ever wanna meet ... brett_jv May 2013 #78
Bless you, BaldGuy! dorkzilla May 2013 #84
So baldguy, if abuse is the reason these dogs become violent whatchamacallit May 2013 #86
Tragically, these are the last known photos of the victims ... DirkGently May 2013 #87
Are you sure those are pit bulls? GaYellowDawg May 2013 #91
Ut oh... 99Forever May 2013 #92
I call them Pit Bulls simply because their owners do. baldguy May 2013 #97
Insufficient. Where are the papers? GaYellowDawg May 2013 #99
The breed only matters when dumbfucks are looking to place blame on someone. baldguy May 2013 #100
OR when you're being hypocritical about it. GaYellowDawg May 2013 #102
What is a breed other than a race of dog? baldguy May 2013 #103
It's very different. And where are the papers? GaYellowDawg May 2013 #109
Our Border Collie "Mix" Rescue Dog Turned Out To Be A "Pitbull" Tace May 2013 #95
More guns!!! Iggo May 2013 #98
Cute puppehs! nt tblue37 May 2013 #101
It is not the dog that is the problem. It is the people that care for them. LiberalFighter May 2013 #104
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