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Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)

72. Self Defense is an affirmative defense. This means that it is not ASSUMED

Tue Jun 4, 2013, 09:24 AM

Jun 2013

The burden of proof shifts from the prosecution to the person making the claim. It's the defendent's job to convince the jury that it happened in this way and that because of this they felt in danger. Further, certain actions leading up to the encounter negate the claim. Zimmerman did not just follow this kid down the sidewalk. He followed him from the clubhouse all the wy to the corner, and when Martin became so alarmed that he ran Zimmerman left his car to run after him. They eventually met. Here, the physical evidence and the girlfriend's testimony both give the lie to Zimmerman's story.

So...

Now the burden is on him. He has to convince a jury that his actions were reasonable and that his version of events is accurate, he has to convince them that he is telling the truth and both the physical evidence and the witness testimony are not. And somehow he has to fulfill this burden without actually testifying himself -- because if he takes the stand he is going to get creamed.

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How are so many missing the biggest claim Zimmerman made about the shooting [View all] newmember Jun 2013 OP

The crime happened a long way from the truck he claimed to be right outside. alphafemale Jun 2013 #1

No newmember Jun 2013 #2

I have never heard that. alphafemale Jun 2013 #3

It was not newmember Jun 2013 #4

Heh, refuting Zimmerman's *claims* will be a cakewalk for the prosecutor. pacalo Jun 2013 #25

Yep. All those lies of his will definitely come back to bite him. (I hope). nt. polly7 Jun 2013 #101

Martin is to blame for exactly nothing. Zero. Sheldon Cooper Jun 2013 #73

Interesting Just Saying Jun 2013 #89

I remember Zimmy talking about Trayvon going for his gun, way back in the beginning. uppityperson Jun 2013 #106

The EMT's that treated him disagree with you. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #96

Officer's Cellphone Pics Show Zimmerman May NOT Have Been Punched the Night he Killed Trayvon Tx4obama Jun 2013 #157

That will be for the lawyers to argue and the jury to decide. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #160

In my opinion the most damaging and telling thing Zimmerman said... Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #5

Yup, listening to what he said, it is very telling. uppityperson Jun 2013 #7

The bottom line for me is his pursuit of Trayvon after the dispatcher told him to stand down. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #9

For you, maybe, but legally even someone disobeying a 911 operator has a right to self defense Recursion Jun 2013 #11

It's going to be hard because you have conflicting testimony from eye witnesses even newmember Jun 2013 #19

Exactly, though with a positive defense a tie doesn't necessarily go to Zimmerman Recursion Jun 2013 #21

you are of the "male" persuasion aren't you? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #105

I don't agree. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #23

You're right about the quality of Zimmerman's life after making such a poor choice. pacalo Jun 2013 #40

Freepers are stilly passing around the GZ donation web site and claim to be donating Sheepshank Jun 2013 #102

That's the type of riffraff I was talking about. pacalo Jun 2013 #118

In the 911 call, Zimmerman said Martin was running away Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #28

Z says otherwise Recursion Jun 2013 #31

The 911 call refutes it Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #33

That's impossible Recursion Jun 2013 #34

Nope Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #36

doesn't matter Recursion Jun 2013 #37

It sure does matter Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #41

we don't know that Recursion Jun 2013 #46

That's bullshit because the scene of the confrontation Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #52

That's exactly the bottom line. ryan_cats Jun 2013 #114

Zimmerman was ALREADY out of his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #97

As a female VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #108

Zimmerman's lies haven't done much for his credibility. What he "says" will have meant pacalo Jun 2013 #44

If he can get those introduced Recursion Jun 2013 #47

Zimmerman is the only eyewitness. How will his lawyer introduce his claims if he doesn't testify. pacalo Jun 2013 #50

Applause! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #109

Yes, we do. The physical evidence as it relates to Z's story, and... Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #71

"Zimmerman uttered a racial epithet " newmember Jun 2013 #38

I don't think he was actually cleared on that Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #49

No, Zimmerman was ALREADY out of his truck at that point. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #98

When you hunt down somebody while you are armed with a deadly weapon Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #55

Before God, yes. Before 12 of your peers, less so. Recursion Jun 2013 #56

well if you believe that...as a woman it makes me want to vomit! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #111

As a combat vet it makes me ill Recursion Jun 2013 #120

No actually it is not....in the military...rape victims cannot get a fair shake...your view is VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #132

Powerful, irrelevant statements Recursion Jun 2013 #133

not surprised you cannot see the forest for the trees when it comes to your opinions... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #137

Self Defense is an affirmative defense. This means that it is not ASSUMED Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #72

Not in Florida. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #99

just based on this thread alone GZ is pissed that "fucking*slur* keep getting away with it." Sheepshank Jun 2013 #103

Following someone in their vehicle. Deliberately confronting a person in public for no valid reason. Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #75

So you're saying you have a right to hit someone who does those things? Recursion Jun 2013 #76

All I need is for you to touch me. Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #78

I agree. I doubt Z touched him first Recursion Jun 2013 #80

In your post 75 you didn't list anything that involved touching. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #100

What is your point? Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #131

Trayvon is the one that could use self-defense here VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #113

You are not correct MattBaggins Jun 2013 #154

"They always get away", which provides Zimmerman's motivation in disregarding the pacalo Jun 2013 #27

Had similar thoughts. Great analysis. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2013 #66

i think you're right samsingh Jun 2013 #107

Zimmerman is a paranoid gun humper Skittles Jun 2013 #6

nice to see i'm not the only one JI7 Jun 2013 #26

he's not good at what he does Skittles Jun 2013 #51

:Lots of us have noticed! HangOnKids Jun 2013 #149

. newmember Jun 2013 #42

Ahh how cute! HangOnKids Jun 2013 #110

The gun should then have Martin's fingerprints on it, no? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #8

They didn't run any prints on Zimmerman's gun , and it also would have been too late newmember Jun 2013 #12

Again, that's what Zimmerman *claims*. He's been proven to be a liar. pacalo Jun 2013 #45

Zimmy also says Trayvon said "you got me" before dramatically falling dead. uppityperson Jun 2013 #112

Martin Went For The Gun That Zimmerman Had Not Pulled Out Yet? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #129

Yes newmember Jun 2013 #138

Which Is It? I Offered 2 Scenarios HangOnKids Jun 2013 #140

read the thread newmember Jun 2013 #146

He claims to have shot Martin because he feared Martin would attack him again Recursion Jun 2013 #10

No, it is not consistent with being attacked. It is consistent with he was injured in the face, uppityperson Jun 2013 #13

It's consistent that a fist fight happened newmember Jun 2013 #15

He could have been kicked in the face. Or been hit with a branch from a tree. Or fell face down. uppityperson Jun 2013 #17

There's eye witnesses that there was a fight between the two newmember Jun 2013 #22

You miss the point. SEEING someone do something means you saw them. Seeing blood on a uppityperson Jun 2013 #104

Well, yes, that is actually consistent with being attacked Recursion Jun 2013 #18

It "could be" not "is"? OK. That I will agree with. uppityperson Jun 2013 #20

I didn't say he wasn't attacked , but is it plausible that Martin went for his gun? newmember Jun 2013 #14

Is that part of the actual legal defense? Recursion Jun 2013 #16

How can it not be part of it? newmember Jun 2013 #24

They might make that claim but its unprovable vs the bloody nose and cuts on his head. dkf Jun 2013 #29

So you heard about this claim early on in the case also ? newmember Jun 2013 #32

At the time I thought it was too pat and awfully convenient. dkf Jun 2013 #39

Then the prosecution can make him out a liar if they back off of it newmember Jun 2013 #43

I'm thinking there is no way to prove or disprove that statement. dkf Jun 2013 #48

I'm no lawyer but I could trip him up in about 4 questions if I was allowed newmember Jun 2013 #77

so you understand lawyers cannot ask whatever they want? Recursion Jun 2013 #122

They can ask what ever they like but it will be objected to by the defense newmember Jun 2013 #139

HOW ELSE WOULD HE EXPLAIN KILLING AN UNARMED TEENAGER??? Skittles Jun 2013 #53

Because PR and legal defense are different Recursion Jun 2013 #30

It's going to be an interesting trial to follow newmember Jun 2013 #35

What? You think the bigoted gun lovers will riot if Zimmerman gets convicted of murdering unarmed Hoyt Jun 2013 #116

I think anything can happen newmember Jun 2013 #136

Well at least you understand how non-law-abiding gun lovers generally are, despite what they say. Hoyt Jun 2013 #143

It could go either way newmember Jun 2013 #147

That would be the case. Is that what you and your buddies think? Hoyt Jun 2013 #150

No either way frightens me newmember Jun 2013 #151

You've already said what you think, and it's a bunch of bigoted BS. Hoyt Jun 2013 #152

You are hurting my feelings now newmember Jun 2013 #153

Why are you so invested in arguing for Zimmerman? demwing Jun 2013 #57

Because Latino men are constantly accused of aggression falsely? Recursion Jun 2013 #58

thank you for the verification demwing Jun 2013 #60

Facts are precisely what we don't have Recursion Jun 2013 #61

You had a chance to answer differently demwing Jun 2013 #62

No, and you just revealed yourself by that Recursion Jun 2013 #63

Come on, be real demwing Jun 2013 #64

I don't defend Zimmerman at all. I hope he's convicted. I also think it's a hard case Recursion Jun 2013 #65

It must be difficult demwing Jun 2013 #67

No, it's easy: Zimmerman is a fucking liar Recursion Jun 2013 #68

Sorry. I was referring to your comments demwing Jun 2013 #69

Oh, nothing to say, then. I have no conflict reported. Recursion Jun 2013 #70

Zimmerman's lawyer is going to have to make the decision on whether newmember Jun 2013 #81

It would surprise me if Z takes the stand, because that opens up his whole history of bullshit Recursion Jun 2013 #85

To me it seems he wants to take the stand against his lawyers advice newmember Jun 2013 #92

That is my armchair lawyer take too Recursion Jun 2013 #95

He's not required to, but it's the only way Just Saying Jun 2013 #94

That's why I started this thread newmember Jun 2013 #83

why shouldn't "stand your ground" veganlush Jun 2013 #54

Z is not attempting an SYG defense Recursion Jun 2013 #59

He's claiming self-defense, which is pretty much the same. SYG just gives punks like Z Hoyt Jun 2013 #117

Oh no. Huge difference. Recursion Jun 2013 #121

He's claiming self-defense. SYG is just another way for gun lovers to protect themselves Hoyt Jun 2013 #125

doesn't matter. veganlush Jun 2013 #135

No, you can't use deadly force for simply "feeling" threatened. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #141

you're making shit up veganlush Jun 2013 #156

You don't understand self-defense or SYG. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #159

Zimmerson shot an unarmed kid warrior1 Jun 2013 #74

. orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #79

So the gunshot wound will show that Martin was shot in the back while in a standing position? Common Sense Party Jun 2013 #84

No, he spun around and got shot in the chest. orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #87

So the evidence shows that both men were in a standing position when Trayvon was shot? Common Sense Party Jun 2013 #115

Forensics are fascinating, a history of crime isn't . orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #123

Do you have evidence that both men were standing? Common Sense Party Jun 2013 #124

No, being one of the two wittinesses are dead, Conjecture will... orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #126

There are other witnesses. Common Sense Party Jun 2013 #127

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jun 2013 #130

Wasn't Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone with him? spinbaby Jun 2013 #82

There is audio but I think it was discredited. N/t Just Saying Jun 2013 #91

What Zimmerman said was Just Saying Jun 2013 #86

I wonder how many pursuers call 9/11 ? orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #88

He was playing cop Just Saying Jun 2013 #90

he had a record of making a lot of phone calls to cops including on some small black child JI7 Jun 2013 #134

Ones who want to shoot someone and get away with it. nt. Mariana Jun 2013 #119

You may be on to something! Just Saying Jun 2013 #128

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #142

Have you listened to the tapes? Just Saying Jun 2013 #144

Some gun owners fantasize about shooting a "bad guy". Mariana Jun 2013 #148

other than any public talk z did after he was read his rights..it doesn't matter his explaning 'why' Sunlei Jun 2013 #93

n/t Dwayne Hicks Jun 2013 #145

Poster is nothing if not consistent curlyred Jun 2013 #155

Officer's Cellphone Pics Show Zimmerman May NOT Have Been Punched the Night he Killed Trayvon Tx4obama Jun 2013 #158