General Discussion

reusrename

(1,716 posts)

81. Thanks for responding, and I agree.

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:28 PM

Jun 2013

As for the legality of what he's done, I have a disagreement with what is claimed in the Salon article. Because he is a public official he doesn't really need to reach the perjury threshold for his testimony to be a crime under 18 U.S.C. § 1001. There does not appear to be any materiality requirement like there is for perjury.

whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully ... makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation ... shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/47/1001

Note the enhanced penalty when dealing with national security.

I would not be comfortable if I were him. Politics will be controlling here, which is probably good for him. There are so many open crimes, even war crimes, that are not being prosecuted, I would think he is pretty far down on the list.

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Bravo, Mr. Snowden !!! [View all] WillyT Jun 2013 OP

Du rec. Nt xchrom Jun 2013 #1

That, my friends, is the quote of the year! reformist2 Jun 2013 #2

That is a great quote Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author DCBob Jun 2013 #110

Instead of attacking Clapper Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #3

I really don't think that PDittie Jun 2013 #6

And Clapper deserves to be attacked iemitsu Jun 2013 #124

Watch this clip, bvar22 Jun 2013 #7

Clapper didn't knowingly lie Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #8

Lets see...the clip is 4 minutes and 5 secs long. bvar22 Jun 2013 #12

I'm not going through this again. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #13

Then my advice to you is don't ever play poker or buy a used car, bvar22 Jun 2013 #15

Read this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #22

Did YOU read it? bvar22 Jun 2013 #28

And I said not "knowingly". Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #30

he fucking admitted to lying when he trotted out the now infamous "least untruthful"remark.. frylock Jun 2013 #40

Lifelong bobduca Jun 2013 #72

Taken Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #80

And Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #33

And Bill Clinton LIED also. bvar22 Jun 2013 #42

actually, he never said that reusrename Jun 2013 #75

That argument makes no sense. reusrename Jun 2013 #76

I think he has a careless attitude, Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #77

Thanks for responding, and I agree. reusrename Jun 2013 #81

The keyword is "knowingly" Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #82

Yep, that's the key. reusrename Jun 2013 #86

the fig leaf such as it is bobduca Jun 2013 #83

But that's the meaning Clapper has Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #84

It seems like a purpose built limited hang-out,though no? bobduca Jun 2013 #85

When you take a book off the library shelf you do it to iemitsu Jun 2013 #125

"To me, collection of a U.S. person's data would mean taking the books off the shelf.... Th1onein Jun 2013 #35

Looks like more than 2 letters Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #37

Read this: Coccydynia Jun 2013 #50

Thufferin' thuccotash... bullsnarfle Jun 2013 #122

You mean his own personal "least untruthful" redefinition? Dragonfli Jun 2013 #16

So it deoends on what the definition of "is" is? LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #18

True Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #29

Of course he his it LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #31

Lol...I was thinking the same thing below. dkf Jun 2013 #53

Poor guy doesn't understand the English language. morningfog Jun 2013 #27

Ah, are we going to debate the meaning of the word "is" now? dkf Jun 2013 #52

Hey Clapper , words have meaning tech3149 Jun 2013 #92

The minnows were sitting in water until collected in the bait bucket Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #93

If they're on a government server, they've been collected. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #118

No, they have been collected and put into the file. iemitsu Jun 2013 #128

Duzy ;-) ReRe Jun 2013 #104

LMAO! Enthusiast Jun 2013 #108

He/She didn't watch it or ... Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #117

Clapper is a Boosh Republican. Need I say more? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #10

Oh... so off with his head Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #11

Good response. If I wanted REpublicans in charge of national security I would have voted for rhett o rick Jun 2013 #23

That is the big question. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #109

... Phlem Jun 2013 #41

oh, so, you like Republicans now? burnodo Jun 2013 #61

Do you always put words in someones mouth? Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #64

Why do you trust that Clapper didn't lie? burnodo Jun 2013 #66

Yes, if I thought he didn't knowingly lie. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #67

The White House supported Clapper's testimony. burnodo Jun 2013 #69

I didn't notice Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #70

Well, you did. sibelian Jun 2013 #115

Bad play. sibelian Jun 2013 #114

Clapper is a former CEO of Booz Allen, a multi-billion dollar Security Corporation and most likely sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #19

He lied to Congress because he is more powerful than they. He is so powerful, I wonder if rhett o rick Jun 2013 #24

Are we going to start mimi85 Jun 2013 #99

Conspiracy theories really hit hard with authoritarians that want you to ignore problems rhett o rick Jun 2013 #100

You honestly believe the spy agencies dont "conspire"? They have an unlimited budget and poor rhett o rick Jun 2013 #120

I don't need to like Clapper or like his political views to believe Clapper didn't knowingly lie. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #38

Clapper is the current Director of Intel. Who should Snowden have referred to when speaking sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #44

I agree. I also think the best possible answer to that question would have been MADem Jun 2013 #54

Yeah, I don't think it was smart to answer the yes or no question Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #55

I doubt you'd feel the same way about Clapper and Mueller if we had a Republican president. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #119

Once again it's about the money. JEB Jun 2013 #103

the BOSS, let's go attack someone else, eh? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #45

Since we already know 300 million phone numbers are in a file Clapper is old history. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #49

"How about Congress finds out whats going on themselves?" burnodo Jun 2013 #63

I think I'd have to be joking judging by Congress... Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #78

The enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend. baldguy Jun 2013 #4

BAM!!! bvar22 Jun 2013 #5

What is apparent from the post here in DU is that the lines are being drawn. Those that have rhett o rick Jun 2013 #17

+1000000000 n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #21

+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #32

I see a lot of desperation in their posts. LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #39

Wow. What a nasty post!!! What broad brushed smears! You should be embarrassed. MADem Jun 2013 #56

Clapper and Mueller worked for Cheney. I dont give a damn what Glen Beck says. And the rhett o rick Jun 2013 #58

Well, the Teabaggers ARE siding with SNOWDEN. MADem Jun 2013 #60

Rand Paul and Glenn Beck and somebody else... burnodo Jun 2013 #65

When my partisan ideology is threatened, Billy Pilgrim Jun 2013 #134

How nice for you. MADem Jun 2013 #135

I thought it was quite to the point. Billy Pilgrim Jun 2013 #137

Excellent point! Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #127

Yes, the all-out effort to turn the affair into a tag team smear match got me convinced byeya Jun 2013 #20

I worked for military-industrial contractors thru the 80s Plucketeer Jun 2013 #43

**SNAP** 99Forever Jun 2013 #9

"The consent of the governed is not consent if it is not informed." Triana Jun 2013 #14

That is such a superb and succinct statement. tomg Jun 2013 #34

Nothing like being schooled by our children (first Manning, now Snowden) about HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #25

What has Snowden revealed that we did already not know about the Patriot Act? mzmolly Jun 2013 #26

Ditto! SoapBox Jun 2013 #48

see # 88 below n/t reusrename Jun 2013 #89

The bit about individual analysts having authority to listen in or read mail. reusrename Jun 2013 #88

Last year, the NSA requested secret warrants from FISA 1,987 times. bvar22 Jun 2013 #98

It terrifies me. I was simply trying to explain what Snowden has uncovered. reusrename Jun 2013 #105

My bad. bvar22 Jun 2013 #129

I've done the same thing myself, several times during this discusion. reusrename Jun 2013 #130

Any data from the past ten years? mzmolly Jun 2013 #133

Warrantless wiretapping? mzmolly Jun 2013 #102

Sure, ok. reusrename Jun 2013 #107

I don't get it, either. mzmolly Jun 2013 #132

"Truth is coming, and it cannot be stopped." JDPriestly Jun 2013 #36

I think Dick Cheney is right on this one. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #46

Cheney warrprayer Jun 2013 #51

In this case he is. Snowden is no hero, no whisleblower. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #57

the enemy? warrprayer Jun 2013 #59

Just because we have not declared war does not mean they are not the enemy. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #68

we think alike warrprayer Jun 2013 #71

We are so nice to our enemies. We gave them all our jobs. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #111

the enemy? marions ghost Jun 2013 #73

More and more, I am reminded of the last line of "Animal Farm" Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #79

Good post fujiyama Jun 2013 #96

is that the war criminal who wasn't prosecuted burnodo Jun 2013 #62

hey you either TRUST him or you just trust him. bobduca Jun 2013 #91

LOL, WTF? Trailrider1951 Jun 2013 #87

K & R AzDar Jun 2013 #47

This is the first post you have ever, EVER posted that I've rec'd. But Snowden gets a big assed Number23 Jun 2013 #74

"Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American," Trailrider1951 Jun 2013 #90

Hmmm, I hope it gives DU's authoritarians a little food for thought fujiyama Jun 2013 #94

That's so true! Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #97

Several in the above posts are saying exactly that. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #112

I agree Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #123

K&R MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #101

k&r... spanone Jun 2013 #106

I thought the messenger didnt matter... just the message. DCBob Jun 2013 #113

Boom, goes the dynamite! Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #116

K&R idwiyo Jun 2013 #121

That puts focus and perspective on the issue. still_one Jun 2013 #126

K&R nt limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #131

K&R nt Zorra Jun 2013 #136