General Discussion

bobduca

(1,763 posts)

83. the fig leaf such as it is

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:35 PM

Jun 2013

intentional misunderstanding isn't misunderstanding, its willful complicity.

They are trying to hide behind the "automated collection is not collection" lie since it's only a "collection of books when you first check the book out."

To strain the analogy to the point of breakage:

If your community bought a library that was built by robots and 3d printers, those books are collections as soon as they are stacked on the shelf, not the very first time a human reads / sees the collection.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

137 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Bravo, Mr. Snowden !!! [View all] WillyT Jun 2013 OP

Du rec. Nt xchrom Jun 2013 #1

That, my friends, is the quote of the year! reformist2 Jun 2013 #2

That is a great quote Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author DCBob Jun 2013 #110

Instead of attacking Clapper Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #3

I really don't think that PDittie Jun 2013 #6

And Clapper deserves to be attacked iemitsu Jun 2013 #124

Watch this clip, bvar22 Jun 2013 #7

Clapper didn't knowingly lie Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #8

Lets see...the clip is 4 minutes and 5 secs long. bvar22 Jun 2013 #12

I'm not going through this again. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #13

Then my advice to you is don't ever play poker or buy a used car, bvar22 Jun 2013 #15

Read this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #22

Did YOU read it? bvar22 Jun 2013 #28

And I said not "knowingly". Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #30

he fucking admitted to lying when he trotted out the now infamous "least untruthful"remark.. frylock Jun 2013 #40

Lifelong bobduca Jun 2013 #72

Taken Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #80

And Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #33

And Bill Clinton LIED also. bvar22 Jun 2013 #42

actually, he never said that reusrename Jun 2013 #75

That argument makes no sense. reusrename Jun 2013 #76

I think he has a careless attitude, Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #77

Thanks for responding, and I agree. reusrename Jun 2013 #81

The keyword is "knowingly" Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #82

Yep, that's the key. reusrename Jun 2013 #86

the fig leaf such as it is bobduca Jun 2013 #83

But that's the meaning Clapper has Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #84

It seems like a purpose built limited hang-out,though no? bobduca Jun 2013 #85

When you take a book off the library shelf you do it to iemitsu Jun 2013 #125

"To me, collection of a U.S. person's data would mean taking the books off the shelf.... Th1onein Jun 2013 #35

Looks like more than 2 letters Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #37

Read this: Coccydynia Jun 2013 #50

Thufferin' thuccotash... bullsnarfle Jun 2013 #122

You mean his own personal "least untruthful" redefinition? Dragonfli Jun 2013 #16

So it deoends on what the definition of "is" is? LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #18

True Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #29

Of course he his it LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #31

Lol...I was thinking the same thing below. dkf Jun 2013 #53

Poor guy doesn't understand the English language. morningfog Jun 2013 #27

Ah, are we going to debate the meaning of the word "is" now? dkf Jun 2013 #52

Hey Clapper , words have meaning tech3149 Jun 2013 #92

The minnows were sitting in water until collected in the bait bucket Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #93

If they're on a government server, they've been collected. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #118

No, they have been collected and put into the file. iemitsu Jun 2013 #128

Duzy ;-) ReRe Jun 2013 #104

LMAO! Enthusiast Jun 2013 #108

He/She didn't watch it or ... Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #117

Clapper is a Boosh Republican. Need I say more? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #10

Oh... so off with his head Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #11

Good response. If I wanted REpublicans in charge of national security I would have voted for rhett o rick Jun 2013 #23

That is the big question. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #109

... Phlem Jun 2013 #41

oh, so, you like Republicans now? burnodo Jun 2013 #61

Do you always put words in someones mouth? Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #64

Why do you trust that Clapper didn't lie? burnodo Jun 2013 #66

Yes, if I thought he didn't knowingly lie. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #67

The White House supported Clapper's testimony. burnodo Jun 2013 #69

I didn't notice Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #70

Well, you did. sibelian Jun 2013 #115

Bad play. sibelian Jun 2013 #114

Clapper is a former CEO of Booz Allen, a multi-billion dollar Security Corporation and most likely sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #19

He lied to Congress because he is more powerful than they. He is so powerful, I wonder if rhett o rick Jun 2013 #24

Are we going to start mimi85 Jun 2013 #99

Conspiracy theories really hit hard with authoritarians that want you to ignore problems rhett o rick Jun 2013 #100

You honestly believe the spy agencies dont "conspire"? They have an unlimited budget and poor rhett o rick Jun 2013 #120

I don't need to like Clapper or like his political views to believe Clapper didn't knowingly lie. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #38

Clapper is the current Director of Intel. Who should Snowden have referred to when speaking sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #44

I agree. I also think the best possible answer to that question would have been MADem Jun 2013 #54

Yeah, I don't think it was smart to answer the yes or no question Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #55

I doubt you'd feel the same way about Clapper and Mueller if we had a Republican president. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #119

Once again it's about the money. JEB Jun 2013 #103

the BOSS, let's go attack someone else, eh? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #45

Since we already know 300 million phone numbers are in a file Clapper is old history. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #49

"How about Congress finds out whats going on themselves?" burnodo Jun 2013 #63

I think I'd have to be joking judging by Congress... Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #78

The enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend. baldguy Jun 2013 #4

BAM!!! bvar22 Jun 2013 #5

What is apparent from the post here in DU is that the lines are being drawn. Those that have rhett o rick Jun 2013 #17

+1000000000 n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #21

+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #32

I see a lot of desperation in their posts. LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #39

Wow. What a nasty post!!! What broad brushed smears! You should be embarrassed. MADem Jun 2013 #56

Clapper and Mueller worked for Cheney. I dont give a damn what Glen Beck says. And the rhett o rick Jun 2013 #58

Well, the Teabaggers ARE siding with SNOWDEN. MADem Jun 2013 #60

Rand Paul and Glenn Beck and somebody else... burnodo Jun 2013 #65

When my partisan ideology is threatened, Billy Pilgrim Jun 2013 #134

How nice for you. MADem Jun 2013 #135

I thought it was quite to the point. Billy Pilgrim Jun 2013 #137

Excellent point! Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #127

Yes, the all-out effort to turn the affair into a tag team smear match got me convinced byeya Jun 2013 #20

I worked for military-industrial contractors thru the 80s Plucketeer Jun 2013 #43

**SNAP** 99Forever Jun 2013 #9

"The consent of the governed is not consent if it is not informed." Triana Jun 2013 #14

That is such a superb and succinct statement. tomg Jun 2013 #34

Nothing like being schooled by our children (first Manning, now Snowden) about HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #25

What has Snowden revealed that we did already not know about the Patriot Act? mzmolly Jun 2013 #26

Ditto! SoapBox Jun 2013 #48

see # 88 below n/t reusrename Jun 2013 #89

The bit about individual analysts having authority to listen in or read mail. reusrename Jun 2013 #88

Last year, the NSA requested secret warrants from FISA 1,987 times. bvar22 Jun 2013 #98

It terrifies me. I was simply trying to explain what Snowden has uncovered. reusrename Jun 2013 #105

My bad. bvar22 Jun 2013 #129

I've done the same thing myself, several times during this discusion. reusrename Jun 2013 #130

Any data from the past ten years? mzmolly Jun 2013 #133

Warrantless wiretapping? mzmolly Jun 2013 #102

Sure, ok. reusrename Jun 2013 #107

I don't get it, either. mzmolly Jun 2013 #132

"Truth is coming, and it cannot be stopped." JDPriestly Jun 2013 #36

I think Dick Cheney is right on this one. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #46

Cheney warrprayer Jun 2013 #51

In this case he is. Snowden is no hero, no whisleblower. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #57

the enemy? warrprayer Jun 2013 #59

Just because we have not declared war does not mean they are not the enemy. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #68

we think alike warrprayer Jun 2013 #71

We are so nice to our enemies. We gave them all our jobs. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #111

the enemy? marions ghost Jun 2013 #73

More and more, I am reminded of the last line of "Animal Farm" Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #79

Good post fujiyama Jun 2013 #96

is that the war criminal who wasn't prosecuted burnodo Jun 2013 #62

hey you either TRUST him or you just trust him. bobduca Jun 2013 #91

LOL, WTF? Trailrider1951 Jun 2013 #87

K & R AzDar Jun 2013 #47

This is the first post you have ever, EVER posted that I've rec'd. But Snowden gets a big assed Number23 Jun 2013 #74

"Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American," Trailrider1951 Jun 2013 #90

Hmmm, I hope it gives DU's authoritarians a little food for thought fujiyama Jun 2013 #94

That's so true! Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #97

Several in the above posts are saying exactly that. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #112

I agree Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #123

K&R MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #101

k&r... spanone Jun 2013 #106

I thought the messenger didnt matter... just the message. DCBob Jun 2013 #113

Boom, goes the dynamite! Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #116

K&R idwiyo Jun 2013 #121

That puts focus and perspective on the issue. still_one Jun 2013 #126

K&R nt limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #131

K&R nt Zorra Jun 2013 #136