General Discussion

FloridaJudy

(9,465 posts)

257. Exactly!

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:46 PM

Jun 2013

Looking at this young woman's testimony, the impression I'm getting is of some degree of cognitive impairment, combined with an abysmal education. She's way out of her comfort zone, surrounded by people who don't look or talk like her and being harried by intimating-looking authority figures. She's doing the best she can.

I feel painfully sorry for her. It's not her fault that she's not an intelligent, articulate woman, schooled in the intricacies of the legal system. Unfortunately, she's not doing the prosecution any favors, but she was the next-to-the-last-person to speak to Trevon alive, and they're stuck with her.

She doesn't come off as surly or defiant to me - just sad and confused. When Scalia rolls his eyes at Ginsburg, it's deliberate disrespect. When she rolls hers, it feels more like "WTF did he just say, and how am I supposed to answer?!"

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I dont think Trayvon's friend is helping the case much. [View all] darkangel218 Jun 2013 OP

you seem to be having a bit of difficulty yourself Skittles Jun 2013 #1

+1000 quinnox Jun 2013 #60

I agree. She needed to be continually asked to speak up and she seemed very annoyed. EOTE Jun 2013 #2

Parties aren't supposed to "prep" their witnesses. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #8

Isn't one of the attorney's maxims "Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to"? EOTE Jun 2013 #14

Of course she would have been prepped. Myrina Jun 2013 #207

thats not true qazplm Jun 2013 #54

My father was involved in a court case and he was "prepped", not fed answerers Raine Jun 2013 #97

Lawyers prep witnesses all the time... markpkessinger Jun 2013 #100

Not true. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #165

Oh but they do. Bake Jun 2013 #228

Of course they do. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #229

Nothing against the rules about it... WI_DEM Jun 2013 #243

Not only is it NOT against the rules ... Bake Jun 2013 #261

I think we're talking about two different things here. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #262

She's a kid. n/t ScreamingMeemie Jun 2013 #3

I'm pretty sure she's 19 which makes her, at least legally, an adult. nt EOTE Jun 2013 #15

I'm sorry, turning 19 doesn't magically gift you with the ability to speak like a grownup. A kid n/t ScreamingMeemie Jun 2013 #36

I've known plenty of 15 year olds who could speak like adults. EOTE Jun 2013 #39

Good for you. She's a kid. To expect her to sit on the stand and be perfect. Pfffft n/t ScreamingMeemie Jun 2013 #55

Again, not expecting her to be perfect. Just for her to have a bit of a clue as to why she's there. EOTE Jun 2013 #67

The average reading level in US for high schoolers Maximumnegro Jun 2013 #105

I'm not expecting eloquence. EOTE Jun 2013 #122

Not be perfect, but she didn't have to be rude either. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #115

I think she may represent a large chunk of that generation. gateley Jun 2013 #159

Don't get me wrong ... Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #175

And I was an absolute terror and wild child. But I was schooled by nuns and gateley Jun 2013 #266

I totally feel ya. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #269

Let's meet in the middle... Pelican Jun 2013 #123

So? The average youth under the pressure of a courtroom appearance pnwmom Jun 2013 #81

That's true. EOTE Jun 2013 #237

There are a number of jurors who are going through the same thing? Only much more so? pnwmom Jun 2013 #239

Trayvon was murdered almost a year and a half ago. EOTE Jun 2013 #245

I've seen her wiping tears a number of times. Is that because she's petulant, too? pnwmom Jun 2013 #246

Crying is fine, being an asshole is not. EOTE Jun 2013 #249

I am pretty sure this is a girl who has been traumatized Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #232

+1. nt pnwmom Jun 2013 #240

At 19, she *is* a grownup. Rod Walker Jun 2013 #61

At 19, she's several years away from having a fully developed brain, pnwmom Jun 2013 #82

That was surely evident. theHandpuppet Jun 2013 #85

Hm...harsh but fair. Rod Walker Jun 2013 #95

Hey now. This is FLORIDA we're talking Maximumnegro Jun 2013 #106

And the defense will try to show exboyfil Jun 2013 #140

I (and virtually everyone I grew up with) was *far* more articulate at age 19 than this woman. Rod Walker Jun 2013 #93

I'm sure you were a regular Dr. Bombay. savalez Jun 2013 #104

I always preferred Uncle Arthur, actually. Rod Walker Jun 2013 #107

She wasn't picked because she was so articulate. pnwmom Jun 2013 #119

and thank you!! Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #234

+1 cyberswede Jun 2013 #242

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #138

It's not theater. She's not going to get any awards for her testimony. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #4

exactly. wtf... Whisp Jun 2013 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Jun 2013 #34

I meant to say , prosecution shouldve coached her a bit. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #37

coached her on what? her voice she was born with? Whisp Jun 2013 #44

Omg! On answering the questions, not her voice! darkangel218 Jun 2013 #49

Whisp??? onpatrol98 Jun 2013 #146

"she isn't helping the prosecution with the right group" I am wondering if those appalled by her bettyellen Jun 2013 #201

^^^this is why Zimmerman is trying to claim that Martin ambushed him magical thyme Jun 2013 #231

Coaching is against the rules, will indicate they may have told her what to say. uppityperson Jun 2013 #47

Telling her to try to be clear with her answers is not agaisnt the rules. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #53

I agree, was misunderstanding. uppityperson Jun 2013 #58

That's illegal. The best thing to do is tell witnesses... JVS Jun 2013 #111

She is the closest thing to Martin the Jury will see BlueStreak Jun 2013 #139

Except the actual **CONTENT** of the testimony supports the prosecution's picture Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #141

This didn't strike me as a "My Cousin Vinnie" moment BlueStreak Jun 2013 #153

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #149

The witness should've spoken more clearly CreekDog Jun 2013 #203

It feels like she got no prep... Agschmid Jun 2013 #5

She's not supposed to be prepped. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #11

Yes but she was appearing in court... Agschmid Jun 2013 #16

Some witnesses will have their own attorneys. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #18

Got it. Agschmid Jun 2013 #22

What? premium Jun 2013 #20

An attorney can tell you what to expect in questioning. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #29

Ok, then. premium Jun 2013 #32

"Preparing a witness to testify" and "instructing them how to answer" jberryhill Jun 2013 #33

That's false. Parties can prep witnesses. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #116

She's a teenager Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #6

Maybe it's just me, premium Jun 2013 #7

Thats my take too. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #13

Yup. n/t Agschmid Jun 2013 #17

What specifically is she saying that weakens or undermines the prosecutions' case? LanternWaste Jun 2013 #21

The recollection of events is not strong... Agschmid Jun 2013 #26

I don't really see how testimony that neither weakens not invalidates the prosecution's case LanternWaste Jun 2013 #71

You are dealing with live human jurors ... Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #117

Disagree. I caught the prosecution's questioning. I think she presented a vivid account. pinto Jun 2013 #9

Here's how I see it justiceischeap Jun 2013 #10

Absolutely. I'm a fucking expat who hasn't spoken english in months Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #30

I've spoken English pipi_k Jun 2013 #166

Yes, it isn't all that clear, but it is intelligeble. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #167

I agree with you, she isn't being very clear or forthcoming Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #12

It's not a theatrical performance. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #25

I'm not hoping to be entertained Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #35

Her story was actually pretty clear. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #42

He seems to be putting words in her mouth Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #68

she is telling her account. Whisp Jun 2013 #19

I had to turn it off olddots Jun 2013 #23

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #143

She completely destryoed Zimmy's version of events. nt Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #27

I think this is far outside her way of communicating. And she's young and scared and upset. nolabear Jun 2013 #28

I think she is holding up well. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #31

I actually enjoy seeing her get in his face a little. nolabear Jun 2013 #38

she is doing great. Under that kind of pressure and emotion Whisp Jun 2013 #41

Thats your opinion, Whisp, otbers have the right to disagree with you. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #45

The Queen's English would be very refreshing, under the circumstances. Rod Walker Jun 2013 #112

you mean Ann Romney's English? wtf are you talking about? n/t Whisp Jun 2013 #172

Ann Romney? What in the world does she have anything to do with the subject at hand? Rod Walker Jun 2013 #219

'the Queen's English' Whisp Jun 2013 #227

Well nothing other than I think you Kingofalldems Jun 2013 #260

Yeah how dare she speak a dialect?!?! bobduca Jun 2013 #267

The Queen's english? Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #130

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #142

LOL. Give me a break. What are you people expecting? Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #145

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #147

Fuck and shit have been english words for a long time, now, right? Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #148

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #154

Your questions have been answered by other people in this thread. Do read up. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #158

Cursive is a relic, useless and used less for decades now CreekDog Jun 2013 #206

Do tell. Foreigners? HappyMe Jun 2013 #155

It seems his "Ebonics-to-Foreign language" clinic has already been shut down. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #162

I could barely stand to HappyMe Jun 2013 #163

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #196

classicism? ...... oldhippie Jun 2013 #168

Classism. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #169

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #199

And back "he" is. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #200

Shouldn't one goal of High School be to teach the Queen's English? (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #180

It is should be, and is a goal. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #181

do you mean Ann Romney speaking to 'you people'? Whisp Jun 2013 #189

No. I mean standard, grammatical, understandable English. (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #191

so for another example, anyone with a foreign accent Whisp Jun 2013 #194

What does a "foreign accent" have to do with being grammatical? Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #197

and some don't. eom Whisp Jun 2013 #198

Nye thinks our high schools should teach us to speak and write as the British are taught CreekDog Jul 2013 #284

if Margaret Thatcher were on the stand, you'd be defending her CreekDog Jun 2013 #212

Wow. The Margaret Thatcher thing really, really bothered you, didn't it? Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #213

In a country without a "Queen"? CreekDog Jun 2013 #209

OK, the President's English (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #211

so a 19 year old whose friend was murdered needs to speak like a Harvard Law grad? CreekDog Jun 2013 #218

No. Clear, grammatical English would be just fine. Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #225

but you defended Thatcher against any criticism CreekDog Jun 2013 #226

I don't intend this to insult, LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #248

Well, the President is black and I just praised his English (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #251

I wasn't referring to racism or bigotry, but more to culture and ethnic identity. LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #252

In her own way, she's basically calling him full of shit. DevonRex Jun 2013 #46

I agree. HappyMe Jun 2013 #144

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #150

I think she's doing fucking great. She stands up to that asshole defense attorney. DevonRex Jun 2013 #40

what does this line of questioning have to do with anything? Beaverhausen Jun 2013 #43

I'm guessing the Defense is going to try to argue that the Martin family used her to concoct a story Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #48

The legal analyst on MSNBC, alsame Jun 2013 #78

He's trying to make her seem like a alsame Jun 2013 #52

The prosecution should be objecting, then. Are they? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #73

No, she admitted she lied and alsame Jun 2013 #79

The whole thing is difficult, isn't it? uppityperson Jun 2013 #50

LOL! True dat. nolabear Jun 2013 #56

There's the trap. He's drawing parallels between two things she said that weren't true. nolabear Jun 2013 #51

i thought it made her appear more honest, like she was telling the truth JI7 Jun 2013 #57

Frustrating to watch indeed Duer 157099 Jun 2013 #59

her timeline was accurate n/t riverwalker Jun 2013 #80

I can't believe Don West is spending 5 minutes over friend vs. girlfriend. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #62

I think her reticence is working in the prosecution's favor frazzled Jun 2013 #63

I agree, elleng Jun 2013 #69

I completely agree. Lisa D Jun 2013 #74

Interesting that we women seem to agree on this frazzled Jun 2013 #77

we talked about the exact thing last night, very typical teenager..."I don't want to be bothered" uponit7771 Jun 2013 #151

And WTF is up with the defense comment about Duer 157099 Jun 2013 #64

Hundreds and hundreds of texts this lawyer asks. That is what kids do. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #65

This dude doesn't know anything about teens, I think all american girl Jun 2013 #170

I agree!I bet the jury found it mind numbing. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #171

I've gotten kind of fond of her during the course of this. It's a look into a teenager's world. nolabear Jun 2013 #66

Yes, fond of her and sorry for her elleng Jun 2013 #70

Yes, her instinct for wanting to be anonymous was a good one. This stuff eats you alive. nolabear Jun 2013 #76

I'm enjoying this and I think she's doing quite well Autumn Jun 2013 #75

She's young and nervous Just Saying Jun 2013 #72

This. Right here. Brickbat Jun 2013 #88

I think you're making a very important point here. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #101

+1 davidpdx Jun 2013 #137

Given the OP's track record, I feel good knowing about the witness knowing she feels bad about it CreekDog Jun 2013 #214

the parents crying probably sealed his fate arely staircase Jun 2013 #83

She's doing very well..in fact I think the defense's treatment of her is poorly msanthrope Jun 2013 #84

She is doing horribly and a poor witness ksoze Jun 2013 #87

This isn't Law and Order..she's doing just fine. nt msanthrope Jun 2013 #89

Fine for the defense ksoze Jun 2013 #90

being questioned for hours is not the same as observing for hours magical thyme Jun 2013 #96

But she is the star prosecution witness ksoze Jun 2013 #98

did the prosecution call her their star witness? magical thyme Jun 2013 #118

I agree ... thinly veiled beneath her "Yes sir"s are simmering "Fuck the hell off". Myrina Jun 2013 #217

how long has she been on the stand? magical thyme Jun 2013 #86

I believe they suspended her testimony until tomorrow. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #91

I love her exasperation when she heard she'd have to come back csziggy Jun 2013 #108

If she is 19 now and still in high school Duer 157099 Jun 2013 #92

The defense attorney was fine with her. She tripped herself up. ksoze Jun 2013 #94

I'll alert the prosecutor re your concerns Kingofalldems Jun 2013 #99

Ill tell my pet cat what you said. nt darkangel218 Jun 2013 #103

before or after the self delete? CreekDog Jun 2013 #220

agree - horrible witness - has given contradictory responses DrDan Jun 2013 #102

at the time KT2000 Jun 2013 #109

She is doing fine...I would have cussed that prick of a lawyer by now HipChick Jun 2013 #110

Which would make you a great defense witness ksoze Jun 2013 #113

She was deposed by him before and understandably finds him annoying. She is sick of him. Glimmer of Hope Jun 2013 #121

I came home after work and told my girlfriend the same thing. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #114

All the racists are attacking this young woman on the freeper sites RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #120

My OP wasnt racist and i didnt see any racist posts in this thread. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #124

Yeah, I read freeper sites RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #125

Good for you. Youre ignored. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #131

Oh noes! RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #133

The first two were self-deleted. nt bike man Jun 2013 #186

lol RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #270

What a sickening comment to make. EOTE Jun 2013 #126

She's not a pro RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #128

What a ridiculous bunch of strawmen bullshit. EOTE Jun 2013 #129

Maybe you watch too much TV RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #132

Maybe you're far too quick to throw out sickening accusations of racism. EOTE Jun 2013 #134

There are OPs calling people racist if they do not agree with Obama all the time. djean111 Jun 2013 #135

I'd hope so, but it seems like the bulk go unchallenged. EOTE Jun 2013 #156

Nobody is asking for an actress WI_DEM Jun 2013 #247

Slow down Comrade. Opinions not yours are not auto-racist ksoze Jun 2013 #127

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #152

This pipi_k Jun 2013 #160

She did fine. BklnDem75 Jun 2013 #136

I thought much pipi_k Jun 2013 #157

I just hope she tells the unvarnished truth. JohnnyRingo Jun 2013 #161

Trayvon Martin's friend's name is Rachel Jeantel and my heart breaks for her. graham4anything Jun 2013 #164

wait. I thought she was his girlfriend adric mutelovic Jun 2013 #174

I am not confused about anything. I hold these truth's to be self-evident. graham4anything Jun 2013 #179

Yes. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #230

She is a nightmare witness LittleBlue Jun 2013 #173

I think she is a terrible witness. She mumbles way to much. southernyankeebelle Jun 2013 #176

She cant read cursive,because......its not taught in school anymore Gin Jun 2013 #177

That's the Florida school system for you. lpbk2713 Jun 2013 #182

See my response #184. Both grandsons read cursive, both in Florida bike man Jun 2013 #185

Collier County has stopped it HockeyMom Jun 2013 #190

I'd venture to guess your grandsons didn't attend Miami inner city schools, as did Ms Jeantel. lpbk2713 Jun 2013 #224

So is it the Miami inner city schools, or the Florida school system, as post 182 suggests? bike man Jun 2013 #259

Odd. I have one 19 yr old grandson, just finished first yr college, and he reads bike man Jun 2013 #184

Found this on google...Wahingotn Post article.....but there are many other sources. Gin Jun 2013 #188

They will print it HockeyMom Jun 2013 #192

Some of them must be getting it from somewhere. Where would we place the blame for bike man Jun 2013 #193

Check their ages again. Then ask a 10-year-old. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #216

Don't need to check their ages, I've known them since they were babies. And here bike man Jun 2013 #256

and I happen to know a 19 year old Sheepshank Jun 2013 #250

Exactly! FloridaJudy Jun 2013 #257

The 19 yr old in your example probable would not be a prosecution witness, either. bike man Jun 2013 #258

The fact that you didn't grasp the idea that there is a spectrum Sheepshank Jun 2013 #272

As is assigning all sorts of reasons to justify poor performance. No one here bike man Jun 2013 #273

and your constant appearance on the stand Sheepshank Jun 2013 #275

I WOULD LIKE EVERY DU'ER TO READ YOUR POST. Too many defend this practice. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #215

If this person is the prosecution's "star witness", the prosecution is in big trouble. Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #178

I admit, I did a lot of face palming, but ecstatic Jun 2013 #187

The context of the question was if she recognized that map Lisa D Jun 2013 #210

I thought the same thing and I watched B Calm Jun 2013 #183

She's doing a pretty good job pushing back against West's attempts.... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #195

I agree with you Samantha Jun 2013 #268

I'm not sure who's harder to listen to .... Myrina Jun 2013 #202

Rule of thumb while being questioned by the opposing attorney: Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #204

LOL nt Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #205

... and you went to law school, where? Myrina Jun 2013 #221

:) Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #238

More of that conversation... SlipperySlope Jun 2013 #233

LOL pokerfan Jun 2013 #244

I've been a witness on behalf of the presecution in court, several times Sheepshank Jun 2013 #253

i don't think z's lawyers are helping him much arely staircase Jun 2013 #208

+1, they cant make RJ less credible now...they're droning for no reason uponit7771 Jun 2013 #223

considering your posts are full of malaprops and errors CreekDog Jun 2013 #222

Lmao! is that all you could come up with? darkangel218 Jun 2013 #241

She did hurt the case as far as I'm concerned. Boudica the Lyoness Jun 2013 #235

If you lost someone who you think was trying to rape you.... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #236

sometimes "crackers/pedos" need to be taught a lesson grok Jun 2013 #254

Say what???? Who is this "they" of which you speak? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #255

You forgot the sarcasm smile, buddy darkangel218 Jun 2013 #263

I thought i was being obvious... grok Jun 2013 #264

Because stalkers or creeps are usually scared off easily. Boudica the Lyoness Jun 2013 #280

Sorry, I don't buy that for a minute. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #283

I like her. She's obviously not going to take crap from that horrid defence attorney. applegrove Jun 2013 #265

The defense crushed her credibility hack89 Jun 2013 #271

What a bullsh*t accounting. Given Brietbart is on their arthritisR_US Jun 2013 #274

So you have a transcript that says something different? hack89 Jun 2013 #276

There's very little transcript in your link Just Saying Jun 2013 #278

The inference is that the state influenced her to get the statement they wanted hack89 Jun 2013 #279

I have no idea. Just Saying Jun 2013 #281

When you have other prosecution witnesses confirming Zimmerman's account hack89 Jun 2013 #282

In the end... atreides1 Jun 2013 #277