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flamingdem

(40,989 posts)

29. We're talking past each other, that's true.

Reply to MannyGoldstein (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:18 PM

Jul 2013

It's not that I can't see the other side, I can, that's exactly what makes the Civil War kind of intense.
But I've decided.

I've been a protestor in the USA since I was 10 years old, I lived with a European who was very anti-USA and is surely applauding these leaks. But, in the end, I am an American, that is very central to my identity even though I've been so critical for so many years. So an attack, an ill considered attack that reeks of manipulation, that damages us strategically, economically, is not welcome. I am focused on Snowden since he's the news, the knowledge of spying is not new. When I was an activist I dealt with the FBI. How many of the pro-Snowdens lived through those dark years?

That was back in the Reagan days, we older folks know what repression is in a different way than some younger folks, but I'm not sure that's the divide here.

It might be a part of it.

I dislike Libertarians. If someone is pushing a line like theirs I won't listen. I realize a lot of Civil Rights lawyers are legitimate, I know some of them and they are not Libertarians, but they usually dislike Obama and have been attacking him for a long time. I tune them out for their focus on a small slice of what matters to me.

I care, and some DUers like me care about the obstruction and destruction done by the Right Wing in our country. Tell me of a greater danger to our lives going forward. Koch Brothers fund Cato, there's your enemy, their ilk. Obama is our defense against those people. The pro-Snowden crowd is not out there screaming about the right wing and supporting Obama against their attacks.

So with something like that on your mind weigh the importance of this latest scandal, and that's how it looks, like another scandal meant to divide and conquer.

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I have to say... [View all] MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 OP

Yup, Snowden is a modern day hero, like Paul Revere riding to warn us quinnox Jul 2013 #1

There's old Paul warning the British that they can't take our guns. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #49

And like Revere, a bit of an incompetent. ieoeja Jul 2013 #67

And just like the war for Independence we must be willing to fasttense Jul 2013 #70

Benjamin Franklin most importantly said "An ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure" graham4anything Jul 2013 #2

We are so fortunate to have such an MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #5

bwahahahahaha usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #21

Can you reduce that picture to a thumbnail? Not Skidmore Jul 2013 #48

"everything else he said was less important"... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #33

you are smearing Bob Graham. and twisting my name. It refers to Bob Graham graham4anything Jul 2013 #42

Bob Graham voted Yes on DOMA, how is that for equality? idwiyo Jul 2013 #72

How about a pound of prevention for an ounce of cure? Union Scribe Jul 2013 #46

If it indeed was both of those two guys. truedelphi Jul 2013 #66

Forty tonnes of prevention and NO cure. sibelian Jul 2013 #76

And you have said it brilliantly! Thank you! n/t markpkessinger Jul 2013 #3

Unfortunately, I believe that we are too far gone. Link Speed Jul 2013 #4

well ya just blew that deal elehhhhna Jul 2013 #6

Hah! I broke into the library to post this. Link Speed Jul 2013 #13

THat was Donovan The Blue Flower Jul 2013 #24

My apologies Link Speed Jul 2013 #38

You know that your laptop has an address that can be recorded where ever you access? nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #74

I do know that Link Speed Jul 2013 #81

I am not being critical, just curious. Do you buy anything via the internet, maybe anti-spyware? n rhett o rick Jul 2013 #82

I do not Link Speed Jul 2013 #83

Sounds like you are about as far off the grid as possible. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #84

I'm curious as to what "off the radar" means. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #8

sorry Link Speed but tiredtoo Jul 2013 #73

i increased the size of my ignore list over this and I'm glad I did xiamiam Jul 2013 #7

Good point. This saps the life out of us. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #10

there are many talking like this right now xiamiam Jul 2013 #26

I think she would be a great president but I keep wondering about Howard Dean. reusrename Jul 2013 #41

So, again, we should all wish President Obama do as FDR did then? I am trying to understand now. graham4anything Jul 2013 #43

I think Congress is where to place all the energy now. One person cannot do what is needed even sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #51

I agree, I don't want to waste time on the pro-surveillance state contingency. We have to do sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #27

I fight like cats and dogs with a liberal friend of mine. Maedhros Jul 2013 #61

I don't think the rank and file Democrats are as easily fooled as they used to be. Hatred for sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #68

He's slowly coming along. Maedhros Jul 2013 #69

+100 nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #30

I have too. Le Taz Hot Jul 2013 #50

What if we hit the streets, 2003 Pre Iraq War Style? Maedhros Jul 2013 #62

There can be no prosperity without nationalizing shit leftstreet Jul 2013 #9

+1000 abelenkpe Jul 2013 #39

The VERY LEAST that should have been done was restoring Glass Steagal. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #45

Snowden's pal Rand Paul isn't a fan of Occupy: baldguy Jul 2013 #11

What makes you think that I thought he'd be? nm MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #14

Do you have anything to say about the OP? . sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #28

No, he doesn't... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #34

I'm not a fan of Rand Paul...........nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #47

Who cares what Snowden thinks of Rand Paul? Maedhros Jul 2013 #63

. jazzimov Jul 2013 #12

I deeply appreciate this post today. woo me with science Jul 2013 #15

Between Snowden and Zimmerman, DU's recruiters have been mailing it in. bluedigger Jul 2013 #16

Manny ya gotta work across the aisle a little better flamingdem Jul 2013 #17

Suggestions? nm MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #18

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #20

You have to state the view of the other side to show you understand flamingdem Jul 2013 #23

Do you think that's in short supply at this point? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #25

We're talking past each other, that's true. flamingdem Jul 2013 #29

Wow! Don't you see an accelerating rise in corporate-military police-state crap? Civilization2 Jul 2013 #78

I don't think Obama = Bush flamingdem Jul 2013 #79

No they are different people, however the same policies march on, and are expanded. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #80

K&R'd! snot Jul 2013 #19

Well I have to say that I can't figure out why the focus is on Snowden as there tnlefty Jul 2013 #22

The problem is that the US wasn't an empire in the 1860s or 1930s starroute Jul 2013 #31

So, the bigger they are, the harder they fall? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #44

The US wasn't an empire in the 1860s or the 1930s??? hootinholler Jul 2013 #53

The Spanish-American War was us dipping a toe into the waters of empire starroute Jul 2013 #54

Well ok, but there was also the Phillipines hootinholler Jul 2013 #55

The Philippines were part of the Spanish-American War starroute Jul 2013 #56

Ah yes, I was confusing the Mexican-American war with the Spanish-American war. hootinholler Jul 2013 #57

I completely agree with you about the expansionism starroute Jul 2013 #60

It's us. We are easily manipulated and anxious to do whatever to whomever to get what Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #65

Damn, Manny, that's inspirational. Thanks, I needed that. Zorra Jul 2013 #32

. blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #35

"Some of the best writing on DU"...it is true, zeemike Jul 2013 #36

I did not take occupy seriously enough, or rather the actions against occupy. dkf Jul 2013 #37

K&R!!! DeSwiss Jul 2013 #40

oh, fuck bigtree Jul 2013 #52

Most Excellent Post !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #58

Rec'd. Corruption Inc Jul 2013 #59

K&R JDPriestly Jul 2013 #64

K&R forestpath Jul 2013 #71

Your last statement is significant. timdog44 Jul 2013 #75

Great post. Honored to k&r. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #77