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In reply to the discussion: Spain says U.S. tipoff led it to query Bolivian flight [View all]Catherina
(35,568 posts)112. Oh my, so they admit the undeniable. "Vamos a hablar con nuestro amigos"
The little Spanish Ambassador who could, kept running back and forth for hours, refusing to grant Morales refueling rights, and consulting with "our friends". Everyone in the world knows who "our friends" means, especially Europeans and Latin Americans. It's quite the little nickname for the US.
And Spain was acting all indignant at the OAS meeting yesterday, trying to skate by on the technicality that they didn't close their airspace. LMAO! No, they just kept refused refueling rights for 13+ hours unless Morales agreed to let them inspect his plane. So sure, technically airspace open but with blackmail. What arrogance! What impertinence and disrespect.
And instead of saying we apologize, a simple request for any honest person, yesterday they tried to throw it on that Indigenous (wink, wink) who misunderstood their kind intentions and spurned their cup of coffee. These people kill me! ALL of Latin America remembers Spain's crimes and its arrogance in committing them for over 500 years. As the Bolivians put it, they will NEVER forget this latest insult.
The West isn't just inept and thieving. It's tone deaf. Deliberately so.
"Vamos a hablar con nuestro amigos"
From the RT Espanol Interview with President Morales
From the explanation Morales gave to his people:
(Video in Spanish, no subtitles, the quote below is at minute 5:15 where President Morales states what happened after we were told "we could not enter French territory, we were very surprised and decided to make an emergency landing in Vienna Austria"
And Spain was acting all indignant at the OAS meeting yesterday, trying to skate by on the technicality that they didn't close their airspace. LMAO! No, they just kept refused refueling rights for 13+ hours unless Morales agreed to let them inspect his plane. So sure, technically airspace open but with blackmail. What arrogance! What impertinence and disrespect.
And instead of saying we apologize, a simple request for any honest person, yesterday they tried to throw it on that Indigenous (wink, wink) who misunderstood their kind intentions and spurned their cup of coffee. These people kill me! ALL of Latin America remembers Spain's crimes and its arrogance in committing them for over 500 years. As the Bolivians put it, they will NEVER forget this latest insult.
The West isn't just inept and thieving. It's tone deaf. Deliberately so.
"Vamos a hablar con nuestro amigos"
From the RT Espanol Interview with President Morales
What exactly happened with the Spanish Ambassador in Austria?
First France closed their airspace, then Portugal right after that, then finally Italy. We were informed by the control towers. Then Spain let us know that if we wanted to refuel, as planned and cleared before, that they needed to inspect our plane. I said, why do you need to check the plane? I don't know that North American man (Snowden) or why you think we're carrying him. We're very responsible and respectful of international conventions.
That's when they informed you it was because of Snowden? Directly?
Yes, that's when they told us. I said to the airport officials, You cant search the Presidential plane. They said We cant unless you invite us for a cup of coffee so we can come on the plane. They wanted me to invite them for coffee inside the plane!" I said "No you can't, you can't come in the plane". If you want to enter by force, you can do so but I'm not inviting you on because this is not legal.
Did they get to inspect the plane?
No, not at all. I was informed that some agents walked around the plane outside.
My first thought was: how can European countries be so submissive to the US? I imagined these nations were big defenders of democracy, big defenders of human rights. Despite the history of slavery, colonialism, in Spain, France, other countries, and still I had some faith.
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/99364-morales-rt-avion-snowden-entrevista-exclusiva
First France closed their airspace, then Portugal right after that, then finally Italy. We were informed by the control towers. Then Spain let us know that if we wanted to refuel, as planned and cleared before, that they needed to inspect our plane. I said, why do you need to check the plane? I don't know that North American man (Snowden) or why you think we're carrying him. We're very responsible and respectful of international conventions.
That's when they informed you it was because of Snowden? Directly?
Yes, that's when they told us. I said to the airport officials, You cant search the Presidential plane. They said We cant unless you invite us for a cup of coffee so we can come on the plane. They wanted me to invite them for coffee inside the plane!" I said "No you can't, you can't come in the plane". If you want to enter by force, you can do so but I'm not inviting you on because this is not legal.
Did they get to inspect the plane?
No, not at all. I was informed that some agents walked around the plane outside.
My first thought was: how can European countries be so submissive to the US? I imagined these nations were big defenders of democracy, big defenders of human rights. Despite the history of slavery, colonialism, in Spain, France, other countries, and still I had some faith.
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/99364-morales-rt-avion-snowden-entrevista-exclusiva
From the explanation Morales gave to his people:
(Video in Spanish, no subtitles, the quote below is at minute 5:15 where President Morales states what happened after we were told "we could not enter French territory, we were very surprised and decided to make an emergency landing in Vienna Austria"
On July 4, President Evo Morales related how Ambassador Alberto Carnero tried to commandeer his plane to check whether the former U.S. agent Edward Snowden was on the flight.
When Morales's plane landed on Austrian soil emergency, "suddenly appears the Spanish Ambassador to Vienna, Austria (Alberto Carnero) with two individuals from the Embassy of Spain. The first (the ambassador) tells me that we need to check the presidential airplane. I replied: 'Why do you need to check?'. (He answers me) "I've been in constant contact with the vice Vice-Chancellor of Spain". I replied that 'I do not know this gentlemen, I heard on the news reports that he is American agent'.
I told him that 'we are very respectful of international conventions, international agreements. Therefore I am not transporting anyone to Bolivia' I replied to his insinuations that I was transporting Snowden. Then, when I said that, he replied "I will go ask my Vice-Chancellor". He gets up, and leaves his little office where we were at the airport in Vienna, Austria. He returned and said, "No, we have an agreement among "Foreign Ministers to check your airplane". I told him that 'his chancellor had never informed me of this'. I said: 'You can NOT check. If you do not believe me, you are telling me that President Evo is a liar'. I said that '(our) presidents do not lie, and you know, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors cosmic law is now constitutionalized: Ama Sua (do not steal), Ama Llulla (do not lie) and Ama Quella (do not be idle), I not going to lie to anyone.'
(Minute 7:45) The ambassador comes back from asking his Vice Chancellor, and repeats, "you have to invite us into your plane to have a cup of coffee, to have a little coffee so we can check". I said, 'You're treating me like a criminal, only criminals can be checked, and I'm no criminal. And you are not going to inspect the Presidential airplane'. I mean, brothers and sisters, in this time, for them to control us, for them to check our plane ... I could not understand the colonialist mentality'. 'We had no defense (resistance) whatsoever, it was just me and the pilots. If you want to check, you can do so but only by force, we can offer no resistance. It's clear, how could we resist a military or police operation, but the only way to do so is to do it by force. He got scared and did not dare to check by force and then told me he's going to call his Vice-Chancellor again. He came back and said "Would you speak with my Vice-Chancellor?". I said 'no I have nothing to discuss with the Vice-Chancellor. If you want, call your president (Mariano Rajoy) and not his Vice-Chancellor'. And then finally he tells me, after speaking with (his Vice-Chancellor) another time, he tells me at 9 in the morning, " I can't tell you yet if you can leave or not, because we need talk to our friends." Who are these friends of Spain? Well, they have the right to speak their friends but I asked 'who are these friends? Portugal? France? Italy?' He did not say anything. I wonder who these *friends* are. Then, at 9 and 30, or 10 in the morning, he returned and said to me, a little worried, scared and nervous 'You are free to go" and stopped insisting to check (the plane).
"If I had accepted the inspection, we would have been out of there in an hour or two after landing, but we would not give pleasure to Spain, even more so to the the United States, to inspect our plane so we could leave quickly. We have dignity, sovereignty and we are proud of our country, of the Patria Grande and we will never submit to these forms of blackmail sisters and brothers.
He then goes on to how President Rafael Correa told the US to take its preferential trade deal and stuff it (cheers). and how Latin America is on the rise while the US is on the decline. They don't need this he says. Then he mentions how the US had the nerve to deliver an extradition request for Edward Snowden after he landed in Bolivia. It's all to intimidate. "Our real sin is to have an indigenous President, and to be anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist. That's our sin sisters and brothers. They can't accept that we can govern better than the neoliberals. They can't understand that. What I understood is that they used their agents to intimidate us, to shut us up, to badger, to chastise Latin America and the Caribbean . They do not want this liberation of the people led by anti-capitalist presidents, governments, parties"
When Morales's plane landed on Austrian soil emergency, "suddenly appears the Spanish Ambassador to Vienna, Austria (Alberto Carnero) with two individuals from the Embassy of Spain. The first (the ambassador) tells me that we need to check the presidential airplane. I replied: 'Why do you need to check?'. (He answers me) "I've been in constant contact with the vice Vice-Chancellor of Spain". I replied that 'I do not know this gentlemen, I heard on the news reports that he is American agent'.
I told him that 'we are very respectful of international conventions, international agreements. Therefore I am not transporting anyone to Bolivia' I replied to his insinuations that I was transporting Snowden. Then, when I said that, he replied "I will go ask my Vice-Chancellor". He gets up, and leaves his little office where we were at the airport in Vienna, Austria. He returned and said, "No, we have an agreement among "Foreign Ministers to check your airplane". I told him that 'his chancellor had never informed me of this'. I said: 'You can NOT check. If you do not believe me, you are telling me that President Evo is a liar'. I said that '(our) presidents do not lie, and you know, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors cosmic law is now constitutionalized: Ama Sua (do not steal), Ama Llulla (do not lie) and Ama Quella (do not be idle), I not going to lie to anyone.'
(Minute 7:45) The ambassador comes back from asking his Vice Chancellor, and repeats, "you have to invite us into your plane to have a cup of coffee, to have a little coffee so we can check". I said, 'You're treating me like a criminal, only criminals can be checked, and I'm no criminal. And you are not going to inspect the Presidential airplane'. I mean, brothers and sisters, in this time, for them to control us, for them to check our plane ... I could not understand the colonialist mentality'. 'We had no defense (resistance) whatsoever, it was just me and the pilots. If you want to check, you can do so but only by force, we can offer no resistance. It's clear, how could we resist a military or police operation, but the only way to do so is to do it by force. He got scared and did not dare to check by force and then told me he's going to call his Vice-Chancellor again. He came back and said "Would you speak with my Vice-Chancellor?". I said 'no I have nothing to discuss with the Vice-Chancellor. If you want, call your president (Mariano Rajoy) and not his Vice-Chancellor'. And then finally he tells me, after speaking with (his Vice-Chancellor) another time, he tells me at 9 in the morning, " I can't tell you yet if you can leave or not, because we need talk to our friends." Who are these friends of Spain? Well, they have the right to speak their friends but I asked 'who are these friends? Portugal? France? Italy?' He did not say anything. I wonder who these *friends* are. Then, at 9 and 30, or 10 in the morning, he returned and said to me, a little worried, scared and nervous 'You are free to go" and stopped insisting to check (the plane).
"If I had accepted the inspection, we would have been out of there in an hour or two after landing, but we would not give pleasure to Spain, even more so to the the United States, to inspect our plane so we could leave quickly. We have dignity, sovereignty and we are proud of our country, of the Patria Grande and we will never submit to these forms of blackmail sisters and brothers.
He then goes on to how President Rafael Correa told the US to take its preferential trade deal and stuff it (cheers). and how Latin America is on the rise while the US is on the decline. They don't need this he says. Then he mentions how the US had the nerve to deliver an extradition request for Edward Snowden after he landed in Bolivia. It's all to intimidate. "Our real sin is to have an indigenous President, and to be anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist. That's our sin sisters and brothers. They can't accept that we can govern better than the neoliberals. They can't understand that. What I understood is that they used their agents to intimidate us, to shut us up, to badger, to chastise Latin America and the Caribbean . They do not want this liberation of the people led by anti-capitalist presidents, governments, parties"
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I always thought that was the point of having a comments thread - discussion, by any other
leveymg
Jul 2013
#82
I wish I could track DU's PMs. They'll be here as soon as they have a unified front. n/t
cherokeeprogressive
Jul 2013
#7
I posted below SEVERAL articles below & in a separate thread which refute the bullshit OP.
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#74
I was told the whole thing was a racist libertarian lie made up by racist libertarian Evo Morales
kenny blankenship
Jul 2013
#8
One group is full of shit and has been since day one. Nothing has changed, except
morningfog
Jul 2013
#10
My theory is that it was a case of a rumor and a confusion over the extradition request
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#11
Well you have to prove that fact with a link. That's not what the Spanish guy said
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#15
He said "among other things." As in, "the US told us Snowden was on board, AMONG OTHER THINGS."
morningfog
Jul 2013
#19
They cleared him to pass after denying passage. Both are accurate statements.
morningfog
Jul 2013
#31
I don't think one article is enough to go on. Why hasn't someone brought up this guys name?
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#49
NO HE DID NOT. Here is the one word he supposedly uttered in a SPANISH newspaper…
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#120
This is ancient history. Die Presse was the only source and if Eacho did that it should be
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#36
So you already knew the USA told Austria that Snowden was on the plane. awesome!
limpyhobbler
Jul 2013
#41
Seems important that the US ambassador told Austria that Snowden was on the plane.
limpyhobbler
Jul 2013
#45
I read a fact in the news. USA told Austria that Snowden was on the plane.
limpyhobbler
Jul 2013
#54
Do we actually know that for a fact? Austria had the day before summoned Eacho to demand
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#80
Guess Bolivia did not scare Spain, Spain still is control their air space and it probably
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#32
Bolivia will have to deal with whatever the country whose airspace is being used, I don't think
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#37
It could be, if AF1 was hauling someone like Snowden around and Snowden had made the statements
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#43
US government planes kidnapped people and took them for torture in other countries
muriel_volestrangler
Jul 2013
#95
That was one of Bush's many serious crimes IMO, and sadly most of Europe
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#102
Good for them, they need to stand on their own, I don't care who they trade with but if someone does
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#55
That would be fine, if you were right. This was against International Immunity
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#94
No way! The dozen or so indoctrinated told us it wasn't so in blue link!
galileoreloaded
Jul 2013
#39
... Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, insisted today that Spain never closed
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#48
Las Palmas is in the Canary Islands. It's 1300km beyond Lisbon. I think the Bolivians
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#56
Yes, absolutely agree that they tried to bluff their way. They didn't quite believe the Portugese
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#59
There were multiple strikes in June. I think there was a pilots strike 6 June,
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#63
Not sure, but I don't think they actually had a strike on 2 July: I think they may have had
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#67
... So Spanish government authorization was obtained to stop in the Canary Islands ... At that time
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#86
And they couldn't get there without going through French airspace, which was closed.
morningfog
Jul 2013
#100
They didn't grant permission until they had a written guarantee from the Bolivian foriegn minister
muriel_volestrangler
Jul 2013
#96
... So Spanish government authorization was obtained to stop in the Canary Islands ... At that
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#98
Funny, as of Tuesday, Garcia-Margall is reported as NOT referring to the origin of info.
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#60
Oh sure, but other than evidence, confessions, and apologies, you Paulites got *nothing*
MannyGoldstein
Jul 2013
#61
I cannot find the full quote from the press conference. Inter alia is a latin term. "Interarea"
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#62
Yes, that was it. In other words there was a bunch o' stuff said and we got cornfused!
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#65
so you are happy to believe a lie even though I posted several links that prove the OP is bullshit?
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#79
yes, please post links proving the US ambassador to austria did not make a request..
frylock
Jul 2013
#81
WTF? I am responding to the bullshit OP. Garcia-margallo said alert came inside Europe
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#84
Here is your question… which is irrelevant to anything I posted about in this thread
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#90
the FUCKING US Ambassador to Austria made the FUCKING call from FUCKING inside FUCKING Europe
frylock
Jul 2013
#91
Hello? The OP is about Garcia-Margallo's press conference. It purports G-M as saying the alert came
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#92
for the record, if the press conference transcript does end up having G-M saying alert came from USA
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#93
Is this what you've sunk to? Claming that if an American says something while in Europe
muriel_volestrangler
Jul 2013
#97
I am embarrassed for them. More information will come out for them to embarrassingly deny, too.
morningfog
Jul 2013
#99
I just posted multiple Spanish sources which CONTRADICT THE OP. Can't you read?
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#117
WRONG. I posted the ACTUAL ONE WORD QUOTE IN SPANISH.And MULTIPLE sources contradicting Reuters
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#125
Can you please provide a quote where Garcia-Morallo says that the alert came from the USA
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#136
I post multiple sources PROVING the OP is wrong & you keep the circlejerk going. Here's the info one
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#121
You didn't even read the MULTIPLE CONTRADICTING STORIES FROM SPANISH NEWS ARTICLES.
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#118
the OP is blatantly false… and you nor anyone else in your clique can post any proof
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#127