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GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts) Tue Jul 23, 2013, 02:54 PM Jul 2013

In FL there are Blacks who shoot Whites and use SYG and get off. [View all]

The Tampa Bay Times http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/nonfatal-cases has been assembling the details of all shooting cases that involved SYG since the law was inacted. Some are fatalities, some are only woundings. The web site is interactive so you can set it to show whatever detail that you want to, including details of individual cases. Most shooting are between people of the same race. Setting the filter for black on white shootings, adding fatalities and woundings for total shootings we find:

Black on White - 4 convicted, 12 justified, 4 pending
White on Black - 3 convicted, 14 justified, 5 pending

Total of all SYG claims:
59 convicted, 143 justified, 35 pending

So SYG isn't used that often, is not a shoot anybody for free card, and is not for-Whites-only.

259 replies

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In FL there are Blacks who shoot Whites and use SYG and get off. [View all] GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 OP

I'm gratified to learn that anyone in Florida can shoot first Orrex Jul 2013 #1

Exactly Peaceplace80 Jul 2013 #2

Oh, I too feel better about the SYG law in FL now! rdharma Jul 2013 #3

Warning shots are illegal. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #4

I heard this same explanation on a radio show. Raine1967 Jul 2013 #6

I'm afraid he is! rdharma Jul 2013 #11

Here's a link Lurks Often Jul 2013 #12

SO ...... she had something against ceiling plaster, eh? rdharma Jul 2013 #14

Thank you for being an example of a poster no one should believe. Lurks Often Jul 2013 #73

Could not agree more Hangingon Jul 2013 #78

LOL! The gungeron has called out their posse, eh?!!!! rdharma Jul 2013 #81

She probably didn't want to go to jail for murder. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #85

Thank-you, our resident legal expert! rdharma Jul 2013 #88

Thank You. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #118

I missed it too. She confronted him a couple months AFTER the shooting incident. rdharma Jul 2013 #125

No, he isn't. X_Digger Jul 2013 #17

she wasnt supposed to go near them she was out on bond and was supposed to stay away from them leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #26

Link to that info? rdharma Jul 2013 #91

Here is your link: GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #99

From the link above: X_Digger Jul 2013 #100

This was AFTER THE SHOOTING! rdharma Jul 2013 #106

Irrelevant. Statute of limitations had not run. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #109

Had nothing to do with statute of limitations. rdharma Jul 2013 #122

I will research it better later. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #132

here's the link to that info (minus the rolling eyes smilie) leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #229

Wow. I have bookmarked that for the next time someone brings her up. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #231

She was also the Rick Scott special prosecutor gejohnston Jul 2013 #237

did you listen ro the interview? leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #238

It's a known fact about this case. Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #137

BULL SHIT. Go away. Raine1967 Jul 2013 #203

Of course, rather than a rational response you delete_bush Jul 2013 #220

Well that was well thought out. Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #235

elitist snobery leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #239

re: nothing in common NoGOPZone Jul 2013 #218

Do you get the fact that firing warning shots Just Saying Jul 2013 #19

Actually you hear support for such laws here from gun control advocates hack89 Jul 2013 #24

See post 17 above. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #31

Show us the link! rdharma Jul 2013 #93

Here is a story I found... npk Jul 2013 #98

She didn't have any sort of restraining order against her at the time of the shooting. rdharma Jul 2013 #131

She had a restraining order against him Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #139

She was on bond pending trial for the shooting incident a few months earlier. rdharma Jul 2013 #146

Maybe he used their children to lure/bait her into coming to the house........ TheDebbieDee Jul 2013 #227

See post #229. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #232

I'm not going to listen to a 29:00 minute audio clip of an interview TheDebbieDee Jul 2013 #236

So she should have hired mikeysnot Jul 2013 #111

There are other threads to discuss the Zimmerman case. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #114

I just stated she should have hired mikeysnot Jul 2013 #230

So its perfectly legal to shoot and kill someone but Drale Jul 2013 #79

The difference is in the intent. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #92

I disagree entirely Drale Jul 2013 #95

The law is not what you want it to be, but what it is. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #104

Great explanation. X_Digger Jul 2013 #112

It is a paraphrase from one of Massad Ayoob's books. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #117

Like following a neighbor's son home from 7-11 LanternWaste Jul 2013 #103

There are many other threads to discuss the Zimmerman case. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #105

Bull-Fucking-Shit this thread of yours we're in right now isn't because of the Zimmerman case. nt Electric Monk Jul 2013 #110

I am discussing SYG statistics, not Zimmerman. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #115

Question for you then Marrah_G Jul 2013 #133

Each case is different. No two are identical. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #140

So none? Marrah_G Jul 2013 #169

You are unlikely to find an exact parellel between any two cases. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #173

into the ceiling of her garage? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #134

See post 99. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #142

I thought she went into their attached garage JimDandy Jul 2013 #180

She went to the garage, got the gun, returned to the house, fired the shot. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #191

We're saying the same thing... JimDandy Jul 2013 #196

excpt the evidence doesnt show a warning shot. she fired at him and missd. the shot went thru the leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #23

What evidence was that? rdharma Jul 2013 #96

Here are pics.. X_Digger Jul 2013 #108

here's your linik leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #228

I wish people would do some research before repeating this crap Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #51

She was also given a plea deal for 3 years prison time and turned it down davidn3600 Jul 2013 #62

Yep Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #64

Link? rdharma Jul 2013 #97

It probably didn't help her cause much after her attorney said she fired a warning shot into the AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #128

so basically its legal for anyone to murder anyone in florida......wow bowens43 Jul 2013 #5

You may notice that there are a lot of convictions. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #25

One might think in non-fatal cases like these are, there might be 2 witnesses, not just 1 uppityperson Jul 2013 #7

I'll be the first one to recommend this. William769 Jul 2013 #8

oh bull. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #9

Thank you. gollygee Jul 2013 #15

How is the OP pro-Zimmerman? It says nothing at all about Z, TM, or the trial. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #20

You're being coy gollygee Jul 2013 #30

I take it that you don't like the facts. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #35

Yes, they certainly seem to have a vested interest in not understanding. Because, guns.... Electric Monk Jul 2013 #39

Another person who can't discuss the numbers has been heard from. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #42

The numbers have been addressed, Uncle Jimbo. See reply #9. Electric Monk Jul 2013 #48

See post 27, below. It shows the errors of post 17. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #58

Thanks for blowing this OP out of the water. hay rick Jul 2013 #16

You are using a very small statistical sample. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #18

it's the *same* sample as in the OP. and it's not a 'sample,' it's the entire universe of syg cases HiPointDem Jul 2013 #59

Percentages calculated on small numbers are misleading. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #61

not any more 'misleading' than absolute numbers where there are a 'small number of cases'. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #65

Absolute numbers give the entire picture. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #69

no; the percentages and absolute numbers give the *same* fucking picture. duh. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #72

You can't argue facts with this one... RetroLounge Jul 2013 #149

Here is the problem with that analysis hack89 Jul 2013 #27

no more problematic than using the absolute numbers. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #70

The difference is a single shooting. One. hack89 Jul 2013 #75

the difference is not just 'one,' because the difference is not just about the small # of b/w or HiPointDem Jul 2013 #94

I just showed you that whites have a higher conviction rates than blacks hack89 Jul 2013 #101

Nonsense. hay rick Jul 2013 #166

My concern is with the racial component in cross-racial shootings. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #172

By "concern" you don't mean actual concern. hay rick Jul 2013 #182

The numbers are close to even each way. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #193

And yet black shooters are favored over white shooters. hack89 Jul 2013 #181

SYG definitely favors the shooter. hay rick Jul 2013 #185

That same system disproportionately exonerates black men. hack89 Jul 2013 #188

If the victim is black, whites have a much better chance of being exonerated. hay rick Jul 2013 #223

i heard the %age as 35% of white on black syg goes free compared to 3% blk on why syg leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #28

Percentages calculated on small numbers are misleading. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #33

excpt you dont know how they came to these number and neither do i i heard this on the randi rhodes leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #37

I gave you the link. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #40

thanks .... nt leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #43

yes, i do. the op used the same tampa bay times sample. the op cherry picks it. and it's HiPointDem Jul 2013 #60

Since it is the ENTIRE UNIVERSE of SYG, then I didn't cherry pick. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #68

you took only b/w & w/b. which as you yourself acknowledge is a handful of cases. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #90

Because I am pointing out that the number are very similar for cross-racial shootings. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #107

oh hipoint , i was replying to green point's post and i was refering to the 35% to 3% numbers from leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #76

Thank you for ADDRESSING THE NUMBERS uppityperson Jul 2013 #116

He didn't address the numbers, he used percentages to distort them. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #120

Uh huh. Annoys you when someone else does it? uppityperson Jul 2013 #183

Gun nuts make me sick. nt countingbluecars Jul 2013 #10

Relevance? Chan790 Jul 2013 #13

Many here have claimed that SYG can't be used by blacks. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #47

oh I was already aware of its use by people of non-white ethnicities. Chan790 Jul 2013 #80

Man, you're fighting a losing battle here 7962 Jul 2013 #259

Also from the Tampa Bay Times: Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #21

It's legal murder gollygee Jul 2013 #29

They why were so many convicted? GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #36

Which is to be scared gollygee Jul 2013 #41

Nope. You can't shoot all the witnesses either. That won't fly. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #45

It is a get out of jail free card gollygee Jul 2013 #46

So there are criteria that have to be met. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #52

It is a get out of jail card if there are no witnesses gollygee Jul 2013 #53

Lots of murders get convicted with no eyewitness Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #57

Well that's the thing about making up stories gollygee Jul 2013 #63

The law says you have to REASONABLY fear for loss of life or serious bodily injury davidn3600 Jul 2013 #49

Anyone can come up with a story where it sounds reasonable to be afraid gollygee Jul 2013 #50

Yes and that is what many people claim when they commit a murder davidn3600 Jul 2013 #54

Notice that there are a lot of convictions. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #55

There were probably witnesses in those cases gollygee Jul 2013 #56

That is speculation. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #89

Straight out of Jimcrow era arguments ..... pkdu Jul 2013 #206

That's where the DEFENSE was SYG. SYG language is used in jury instructions even when defense blm Jul 2013 #22

Excellent point BainsBane Jul 2013 #190

anything to justify your sickness Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #32

So you have no argument against the numbers. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #34

I didn't even analyze the numbers. It is a stupid premise. the thing I care about? Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #38

I'd do my best to rationalize a crap law and deflect the attention to that too... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #44

Confirmation Bias Man says: "Remember, kids, posts like this aren't race-baiting!" Robb Jul 2013 #66

ROFL gollygee Jul 2013 #67

Another poster who can't discuss the numbers has been heard from. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #71

Do you need to have it explained to you? Robb Jul 2013 #82

actually, those folk DO need it explained Skittles Jul 2013 #156

The numbers speak for themselves. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #164

Today you are not a dingbat :) Marrah_G Jul 2013 #74

LittleGreenFootballs Trajan Jul 2013 #77

Did you say "Little Green Footballs"? Is that the source of their info? rdharma Jul 2013 #84

I gave the link. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #86

Were any of these fatalities? surrealAmerican Jul 2013 #83

The link has details of each event. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #87

So if someone should shoot you using SYG your family upaloopa Jul 2013 #102

Depends upon if it was a valid SYG. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #113

You could be doing nothing and be killed using SYG upaloopa Jul 2013 #240

REPEAL SYG HockeyMom Jul 2013 #119

Why shouldn't people be able to defend themselves? N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #121

In American there are whites who kill blacks who get the death peanlty BainsBane Jul 2013 #123

I am discussing FL SYG statistics, not the DP. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #136

The application of both is the same BainsBane Jul 2013 #141

And whites get killed too. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #144

11 to 1 is the ratio BainsBane Jul 2013 #147

I AM looking at ALL FL cases of SYG. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #150

235 cases BainsBane Jul 2013 #154

My interest is in cross-racial SYG shootings. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #157

What you are doing is denying facts BainsBane Jul 2013 #145

I have posted facts. You just don't like them. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #148

I posted facts BainsBane Jul 2013 #152

I think my computer has a virus etherealtruth Jul 2013 #124

Amazing, isn't it. Argh! nt babylonsister Jul 2013 #129

I need to quit reading here tonight. etherealtruth Jul 2013 #130

I try not to babylonsister Jul 2013 #135

sad but true nt NoGOPZone Jul 2013 #219

I totally read the title of this thread wrong JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #126

Gawd this is insane! ananda Jul 2013 #127

SYG is racist BainsBane Jul 2013 #138

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #143

If she wishes not to be bothered countingbluecars Jul 2013 #151

Has nothing to do with SYG. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #155

And jury instructions? rdharma Jul 2013 #158

I posted results. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #159

Can you give the post #? rdharma Jul 2013 #186

I am only looking at results, not jury instructions. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #194

I was talking about the Zimmerman trial jury instructions. nt rdharma Jul 2013 #199

I don't want to derail this thread by discussion of Z. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #201

It's all about SYG....... no? rdharma Jul 2013 #215

Wrongo. 99Forever Jul 2013 #153

My interest is in cross-racial SYG shootings. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #162

Your "data" is incomplete. 99Forever Jul 2013 #165

Take that up with the Tampa Times. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #168

Well shit... 99Forever Jul 2013 #175

Evidence on SYG that gunnners willfully ignore BainsBane Jul 2013 #160

An increase in justifiable homicides is not a bad thing. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #167

"Some of them folks just needs a killin." Wow, is your world view ever fucked up. Electric Monk Jul 2013 #170

If you think that violent criminals are only doing it for money then you are naive. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #178

I think your world view is seriously screwed up. kwassa Jul 2013 #224

What about dead innocent teenagers? countingbluecars Jul 2013 #171

Legal concealed carry saves more innocent lives than it takes. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #177

NRA and Texas bullshit countingbluecars Jul 2013 #179

So you can't dispute the numbers, you throw insults. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #197

what a joke! Execution capital of the US! Texas has no credibility. kwassa Jul 2013 #222

"Florida's Stand Your Ground Defense More Likely To Succeed If Victim Is Black: Study" DevonRex Jul 2013 #161

Oops. Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #163

There's actually a better article on it, too. the stats are even worse DevonRex Jul 2013 #174

I watched a trial today on Tru TV Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #176

Of course. DevonRex Jul 2013 #184

Can you remember more details. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #189

He showed the gun in the holster and then walked away. Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #198

Witnesses claim he drew the gun first. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #200

Uh I watched the trial this morning Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #205

Here is the Tampa Bay link. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #214

He pulled the gun from the holster Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #216

In this thread, Dooley is all I am going to talk about. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #225

why 20yrs for marissa alexander? c588415 Jul 2013 #187

We debated this in depth above davidn3600 Jul 2013 #192

post a link on your source of info concerning M A c588415 Jul 2013 #204

Multiple links were posted in the discussion up thread. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #208

What about Zimmerman's criminal record? c588415 Jul 2013 #244

It wasn't a warning shot. She was shooting at him and missed. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #245

It was a warning shot according to all of the links I have researched via GOOGLE c588415 Jul 2013 #247

See posts 229, 99, 108, 128. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #248

Marissa was in a abusive relationship c588415 Jul 2013 #249

See posts 229, 99, 108 & 128. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #254

Z's father was never a judge. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #202

Is there a Z fan club somewhere? Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #207

This message was self-deleted by its author GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #209

Uh huh. Annoys you when someone else does it? uppityperson Jul 2013 #210

Never posted that. Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #211

You are right. You didn't post that. c588415 did. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #212

So of course because of one poster, you had to start a thread about it. Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #213

Actually, this is funny, he is saying two wrongs make a right in his book! Rex Jul 2013 #251

there seems to be one right here on DU nt NoGOPZone Jul 2013 #217

Maybe we could request a forum davidpdx Jul 2013 #226

Careful, you will get accosted by someone swearing Rex Jul 2013 #252

In Matters of Stereotype and Emotion, On the Road Jul 2013 #195

Excellent info...SYG like the 2A is for everyone. ileus Jul 2013 #221

Reading is fundamental. GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #233

Blacks are mostly shot by other blacks. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #234

Zimmerman wasn't justified - those other 143 are suspect lame54 Jul 2013 #241

That is how the law has ruled. You don't get to overturn those rulings. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #257

My point is to dump the law - black white green or plaid - it's bad lame54 Jul 2013 #258

Is it just me or did the line-up of SYG faces look pretty sketchy? Generic Other Jul 2013 #242

This stat has nothing to do with the Trayvon Martin murder. totodeinhere Jul 2013 #243

It isn't supposed to. I am discussing cross-racial SYG shootings. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #246

So two wrongs equal a right in your book. Rex Jul 2013 #250

This thread isn't about Z. It is about over 200 SYG shootings. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #255

How 'bout this... get some fucking pepper spray or mace if you need to buy some time for a retreat Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #253

There are big problems with relying on pepper spray as an only defense. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #256