General Discussion

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)

28. Here's the New Yorker

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:05 PM

Jul 2013

“Mr. Snowden will not be tortured,” Attorney General Eric Holder wrote in a letter sent to Russia’s Minister of Justice on Wednesday. He added, as if saying so were adequate—as if it had, in recent years, been enough—“Torture is unlawful in the United States.” The letter, which the Department of Justice gave to the Times, is part of what appear to be discussions between the Obama Administration and the Putin government about where Edward Snowden, the N.S.A. leaker, might go next. He has been living in the transit zone of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport for some weeks now. Holder said that it wasn’t true that, with his passport revoked, Snowden couldn’t go anywhere without asylum: the government would gladly give him “a limited validity passport good for direct return to the United States”—and nowhere else. When he got here, Holder said, he wouldn’t be killed:

Holder said that he was writing to counter fears expressed in Snowden’s asylum application. What is striking, though, reading his letter, is how non-obvious these very obvious things have become. The United States has tortured, as much as the Obama Administration has disowned the practice. It has played fast and loose with the question of venues, keeping both American and non-American citizens out of the civilian courts where they belong. In just the past few weeks, lawyers for detainees at Guantánamo had to fight to keep from having their clients’ right to counsel undermined by the imposition of gratuitous genital searches before even simple contacts like phone calls to lawyers. (The Obama Administration did say Friday that it would begin the process of repatriating two Algerian prisoners; they are among eighty-six who are being held even though they’ve been cleared for release.)
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/07/holder-we-wont-torture-or-kill-snowden.html

If you really don't get it, what can I say?

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Sorry but the US promising not to seek the death penalty after extradition is not unusual [View all] Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 OP

Me gustan los desfiles!! Scurrilous Jul 2013 #1

No nation in our hemisphere nor any European nation executes anyone for anything Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #2

I think the death penalty should be outlawed Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #4

Ah, because I'm pointing out why that is, our peer nations are horrified that we Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #9

right. it's usual for the U.S.- not for most countries cali Jul 2013 #3

So if the US did not rule out torture? What then? Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #5

I doubt it, but that's hardly the point, which you're doing a lot cali Jul 2013 #16

"I doubt it" Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #24

Can you not admit that the USA is now a country known for torture? xfundy Jul 2013 #78

Pathetic and shameful that this nation has to make mention of torture much less Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #20

I agree. n/t Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #54

You do? Not being snarky, but that really surprises me. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #63

I remember this issue coming up in the case regarding Joran Van der Sloot Tx4obama Jul 2013 #6

She was murdered in Aruba, the US had no jurisdiction nor ability to extradict him Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #13

I believe the issue came up while he was in Peru - after he killed the second girl... Tx4obama Jul 2013 #72

But this is happening to St. Snowden!!!11 treestar Jul 2013 #7

Don't defame Lord Snowden. The UK has laws against libel, you know! freshwest Jul 2013 #90

thank you for finding that!!!1111111 treestar Jul 2013 #104

yeah, "extra special" alright. lol "Poll- boner's ratings are just above zimmer and snowden".. Cha Jul 2013 #101

OMG!!!!!1111 treestar Jul 2013 #105

I expected this thread to contain a similar case Enrique Jul 2013 #8

is your google broken? Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #11

It's not a first or even a thousandth Recursion Jul 2013 #12

We are the only western nation and the only nation in the Americas which has a Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #15

It's a "new low" to remind another country that we don't torture? Recursion Jul 2013 #18

Here's the New Yorker Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #28

What about any of that do you find objectionable? Recursion Jul 2013 #29

I was raised by a WW2 Vet, to me what is problematic is self evident Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #34

I was raised by a Vietnam vet and I am an Iraq vet Recursion Jul 2013 #36

So you served in the Abu Ghraib War. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #43

WTF? Recursion Jul 2013 #45

No, I am saying it we should not have created the need to announce we stopped Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #52

The detention of Bradley Manning has occured wholly during Obama's terms in office. Jerry442 Jul 2013 #82

And Manning was not tortured Recursion Jul 2013 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Jerry442 Jul 2013 #110

Amnesty International's letter to (then) Secretary of Defense Robert Gates re: Manning Jerry442 Jul 2013 #111

According to the Federal Government of the United States ... Laelth Jul 2013 #109

This is the Undercratic Demoground. OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #113

So what would you have had him say, then? randome Jul 2013 #21

It's like we're fully in bizarro-world Recursion Jul 2013 #31

Yes Bizzaro World, in which you and your few fellows here can't grasp what I and Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #38

Can you please try, at least? Recursion Jul 2013 #41

Because Bushco torture and we let them go as if it was just fine to torture. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #47

So your complaint is against Bush and Cheney, not Holder. Mine too. Recursion Jul 2013 #48

Leonardo DaVinci said 'He who refuses to punish evil commands it to occur' Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #55

Also I missed the part where you supported your assertion that the same pepole Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #57

Read DU some time Recursion Jul 2013 #58

I guess they were comfortable with the illusion of Snowden as a hero. randome Jul 2013 #40

it's the first Enrique Jul 2013 #49

Is Google broken today? Start with Abu Hamza Recursion Jul 2013 #53

there it is Enrique Jul 2013 #59

I thought the question was about a promise not to seek the death penalty, sorry Recursion Jul 2013 #60

OMG! kentuck Jul 2013 #10

It's pretty bad. n/t cali Jul 2013 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author davidn3600 Jul 2013 #14

The US does not have an extradition treaty with Russia davidn3600 Jul 2013 #17

Preach it, brother cali Jul 2013 #22

I don't think Snowden will even be extradited from Russia. Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #25

As Kerry pointed out, we did give them back some Russians we had in prison about 2 years ago. randome Jul 2013 #26

please read your post aloud into a recording device Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #37

If you're not capable of elucidating what you think is wrong with the post you're replying to... DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #70

Snowden hasn't been sent back to USA from the airport, Progressive dog Jul 2013 #61

OMG why don't you just move there? treestar Jul 2013 #62

But can we trust US? Cronus Protagonist Jul 2013 #23

I don't know why you bother. DevonRex Jul 2013 #27

They keep saying we have more prisoners than China treestar Jul 2013 #67

Funny that they trust China's and Russia's stated numbers, isn't it? DevonRex Jul 2013 #94

Some people really do believe in American exceptionalism. We are the Masters of the Universe! freshwest Jul 2013 #91

Isn't it ridiculous? DevonRex Jul 2013 #93

Well, you know, if you don't have that onboard camera disabled, they know if you're dressed. freshwest Jul 2013 #97

EEEEeeek!!! DevonRex Jul 2013 #98

Yep, the Kittehs would take the NSA out in a minute. They'd never see them coming: freshwest Jul 2013 #100

The only 'parade' that is being 'rained on' is yours and the goosestepping 'surveillance state'. Purveyor Jul 2013 #30

Announcing we promise not to torture him is fuckng shameful elehhhhna Jul 2013 #32

well, when people are running around like headless chickens Bodhi BloodWave Jul 2013 #42

Huh? We tortured people less than a decade ago. We don't anymore Recursion Jul 2013 #44

don't we? you sure? elehhhhna Jul 2013 #69

Pretty sure, yeah (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #71

Could "Pretty sure..." be compared to "reasonable doubt"? cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #75

Do you Guantanamo? RC Jul 2013 #84

It's hard for me to call keeping somebody alive torture Recursion Jul 2013 #86

One of our most insidious Catch-22s. OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #114

I still say, that ProSense Jul 2013 #33

If Russia houses him with Pussy Riot, would that be considered torture? (NSFW) freshwest Jul 2013 #115

Which of his charges calls for the death penalty? Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #35

espionage n/t Enrique Jul 2013 #46

It is prison time and a fine, you are following the wrong crowd. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #51

Espionage is not a capital crime. Snowden is looking at a few years in jail (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #56

Sure if 30 years is a "few" in your mind... davidn3600 Jul 2013 #68

Bad penmanship. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #65

None. It's just more dramatic to present it that way. No drama, no airtime. freshwest Jul 2013 #96

We have to promise because we're still paying for Bush trashing our JaneyVee Jul 2013 #39

Some here don't find that to be sad or don't understand it at all Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #50

Bush created the reputation, and Obama has done nothing to repair it. davidn3600 Jul 2013 #64

Better solution. Call off the dogs and give the whistleblower his passport back. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #66

Better solution: Arrest Snowden, have a pubic trial, then toss him in prison. n/t Tx4obama Jul 2013 #88

To what purpose? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #92

I trust a man vetted by millions of Americans and a ruthless press... TWICE, AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #73

K&R stonecutter357 Jul 2013 #80

yeah, and it seems a lot of the country feels the same.. Cha Jul 2013 #102

You are SO right. If I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #74

I know, but alas Iliyah Jul 2013 #76

I suppose promising not to torture him is normal also for the US. nt tsuki Jul 2013 #77

I assume most people knew this and that their "outrage" is completely disingenuous and manufactured tritsofme Jul 2013 #79

No - tritsofme Iliyah Jul 2013 #81

Thanks, but I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the OP or my response. tritsofme Jul 2013 #83

'charges Snowden faces do not carry a possibility of the death penalty, Holder told Min. of Justice' Tx4obama Jul 2013 #87

boy nothing is unusual to some people on DU. It's not unusual for US to spy, torture, and kill. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #89

The Attorney General's letter is only a big deal because it is a high profile case arely staircase Jul 2013 #95

Yr correct. I think most countries that have outlawed the DP refuse to extradite... Violet_Crumble Jul 2013 #99

Nope, not unusual at all just craven Riftaxe Jul 2013 #103

Craven not to execute? BainsBane Jul 2013 #107

that's because the rest of the world sees the DP as a human rights violation BainsBane Jul 2013 #106

It is thoroughly embarrassing that we have to make such a promise. Laelth Jul 2013 #108

The idea that Obama would seek to assassinate, torture or execute his critics baldguy Jul 2013 #112