General Discussion

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)

158. Thanks for completely misrepresenting what I was saying

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:52 PM

Jul 2013

In no way shape or form does considering extended periods of solitary confinement torture lead to the conclusion that imprisonment itself is torture.

Extended solitary confinement deprives a person of social contact and mental stimulus for months or even years. That's proven to have a detrimental effect, at best, and the more extreme form of it, Death Row Phenomenon, has been known to cause complete insanity. In fact, DRP is a big part of why EU nations won't extradite to the US if the person is going to face a capital offense.

Simply being in prison does not deprive someone of social contact or mental stimulation. It can be traumatic for some people, but it's in no way even remotely as damaging as extended solitary confinement.

ESC is torture. Every respectable human rights organization on the planet has said as much. Prisoners who have suffered through it have described it as such.

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ERIC HOLDER TO RUSSIA: We Will Not Torture Or Seek The Death Penalty For Edward Snowden [View all] ProSense Jul 2013 OP

We''ll treat him just like Bradley Manning.... think Jul 2013 #1

Yawn. nt BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #2

Yawning at Bradley Manning's treatment is what I'd expect from a Pug think Jul 2013 #3

It is what I'd expect in a military brig as opposed to the civilian system Snowden will face. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #5

The UN chief on torture said Manning's treament was inhumane think Jul 2013 #6

I haven't seen any evidence his treatment was unusual given his circumstances. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #8

Yes, I doubt you would... think Jul 2013 #13

thanks for providing arely staircase Jul 2013 #22

likewise think Jul 2013 #28

I'm sure you looked real hard... bobduca Jul 2013 #16

i looked real hard in your post arely staircase Jul 2013 #25

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un think Jul 2013 #32

I have read all of that before. Calling Manning's treatment torture is an insult to arely staircase Jul 2013 #44

Is that the informatioin you are using to condone what they did? think Jul 2013 #49

it is the info I'm using to call bullshit on the Manning was trotured meme nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #55

"Cruel and inhuman" So you are fine with cruel & inhuman treatment. Just not torture..... think Jul 2013 #58

no. i don't agree with your premise - that he was subjected to anything cruel or inhumane. arely staircase Jul 2013 #60

My premise? It is the UN special rapporteur on torture that is making the statement! think Jul 2013 #63

I have made clear that I disagree with him. arely staircase Jul 2013 #65

If you disagree that 11 months of solitary without a trial isn't cruel and inhuman think Jul 2013 #67

his "solitary confinement" was this: arely staircase Jul 2013 #69

Why did a Amnesty International complain if his treatment was so wonderful think Jul 2013 #70

I might agree with "harsh and punitive" arely staircase Jul 2013 #72

Who said torture where? And No I still think his treatment was CRUEL & INHUMAN!!!!!! think Jul 2013 #73

It is what the OP is about: Holder said Snowden won't be tortured arely staircase Jul 2013 #86

Yes. Apparently being cruel & inhumane is acceptable to many here think Jul 2013 #96

so you do or do not think manning was tortured? arely staircase Jul 2013 #98

Cruel and inhuman! That is what I've repeatedly said. think Jul 2013 #99

ok, thanks. I will go with Amnesty International and say arely staircase Jul 2013 #102

Amnesty calls for protests over Bradley Manning�s treatment think Jul 2013 #106

and they were successful arely staircase Jul 2013 #109

Obviously not everyone is as sure as you since Holder had to write a letter think Jul 2013 #111

he wote the letter because Snowden is asking for asylum and specifically saying he will be tortured arely staircase Jul 2013 #120

Why does Holder feel the need to address such claims if they are without merit? think Jul 2013 #123

because a fugitive from justice has based his claim for asylum on it arely staircase Jul 2013 #151

This message was self-deleted by its author LanternWaste Jul 2013 #139

If he killed himself, then of course that would be others' fault, too. treestar Jul 2013 #155

Suicide watch in the military is an absolute trainwreck NuclearDem Jul 2013 #159

Exactly arely. Calling bradley's treatment "torture" is Cha Jul 2013 #167

Manning's torture was largely brought on by extended periods of solitary confinement NuclearDem Jul 2013 #14

+100 nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #42

His "solitary confinement" was one in which he could speak to other prisoners arely staircase Jul 2013 #61

If you're going to define that as torture treestar Jul 2013 #154

Thanks for completely misrepresenting what I was saying NuclearDem Jul 2013 #158

You'd excuse torture under a system of martial law, then. n/t cprise Jul 2013 #53

no. manning was never tortured nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #62

Slight quibble: The term 'brig' is used for Navy prisons only. KamaAina Jul 2013 #59

that is correct nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #66

So your agreeing torture was ok for Manning. As for Civilian...Jose Padilla, yeah no torture there Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #93

manning wasn't tortured nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #95

Bwhahaha...your funny Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #140

*crickets* cprise Jul 2013 #150

he was never tortured. arely staircase Jul 2013 #156

Righhtt...keep dreaming Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #157

Well, "Dem" has a whole new meaning here at the "Underground...." villager Jul 2013 #56

Hyperventlating about a non-analogous case is something that Rush Limbaugh does BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #75

yawn... think Jul 2013 #77

Yeah, they couldn't care less.. "Bradely Manning/Torture!!!`1111" Cha Jul 2013 #168

Double yawn. AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #20

Yeah fuck Manning that little traitor, now back to dreaming about how exceptional USA is! bobduca Jul 2013 #23

Double the torture love. Double the fun.... think Jul 2013 #26

Manning's military, Snowden's not. n/t tammywammy Jul 2013 #4

So it's ok to torture someone if they are in the military? hootinholler Jul 2013 #9

Manning was subjected to cruel and inhumane treatment according to think Jul 2013 #10

Torture in United States Prisons Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #19

There have been multiple articles on this board over the years Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #43

No - Manning was military, Snowden is not karynnj Jul 2013 #12

So what they did to Manning is acceptable to you? think Jul 2013 #17

*Anything* is acceptable to the propaganda team, woo me with science Jul 2013 #33

^^this PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #39

Bullshit. ProSense Jul 2013 #79

Whoa. randome Jul 2013 #171

No it isn't - and many people like me were upset by the reports and karynnj Jul 2013 #81

The defense here speaks for itself. woo me with science Jul 2013 #84

Sorry - your logic is completely underwhelming karynnj Jul 2013 #115

Yep. It's all about which jersey the player is wearing. QC Jul 2013 #104

If someone had shown me text of some of the arguments here, fifteen years ago... woo me with science Jul 2013 #145

The corollary appears to be just as valid... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #141

I know! NOTHING is acceptable to these people! woo me with science Jul 2013 #143

No - and I never said it was - in fact I posted against it back when it was an karynnj Jul 2013 #80

The defense here speaks for itself. woo me with science Jul 2013 #83

That is because you are seeing things not there karynnj Jul 2013 #114

I can't believe you are the third one saying this cui bono Jul 2013 #47

Pointing out an obvious fact is now against decency?? karynnj Jul 2013 #78

Yes, many here have lost their way. Broward Jul 2013 #82

The doubling down is particularly creepy. woo me with science Jul 2013 #119

As with the tripling up... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #142

Imagine taking a consistent stand against torture. woo me with science Jul 2013 #144

Did you read this? He's going to have a civilian lawyer in a civilian trial. pnwmom Jul 2013 #35

This really speaks volumes hootinholler Jul 2013 #7

We don't torture! Well, except for the goumet meals being served by tube to prisoners in Guantanamo Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #11

you suggest we let the hunger strikers starve arely staircase Jul 2013 #29

I suggest that they be tried or released and not tortured. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #31

I agree with that. But if that isn't happening I wouldn't let anyone starve to death. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #36

Force feeding, especially when done brutally and exceptionally harmfully, is torture. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #34

I couldn't let anyone starve to death arely staircase Jul 2013 #38

It is always kinder for the cat to keep his captured victim alive as long as possible Dragonfli Jul 2013 #50

Good god. We are seeing some jaw dropping headlines lately woo me with science Jul 2013 #15

It's sad that there's so much disinformation out there that we have AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #18

It's sad that the US has tortured enough times that our AG has to claim publicly cui bono Jul 2013 #51

Bingo /nt think Jul 2013 #54

Yep Solly Mack Jul 2013 #74

Right, and St Snowedem, the Martyr, and Greenwald, the nasty villain, are putting it Cha Jul 2013 #172

"entirely" without merit? Does ANYONE buy that? hughee99 Jul 2013 #21

No. woo me with science Jul 2013 #27

Well... Are They Not Merciful... WillyT Jul 2013 #24

It's fucking surreal. woo me with science Jul 2013 #30

Agreed... And I Thought We Were Through The Looking Glass With GW... WillyT Jul 2013 #37

LOL. We won't torture SNowden. bvar22 Jul 2013 #40

He's already been tortured... kentuck Jul 2013 #64

Yeah, and the NSA program is worse than Watergate. ProSense Jul 2013 #71

If you think watergate is worse than this spying, no one should ever listen to you. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #160

If you think what you just said makes sense, then "no one should ever listen to you" ProSense Jul 2013 #162

ProSense deploys "I know you are, but what am I?" DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #164

So how is dystopian mass surveillance by a completely rogue, unaccountable branch of government NuclearDem Jul 2013 #165

Well one is a legal program and the other was a crime. ProSense Jul 2013 #170

Just because something is legal doesn't make it even remotely right. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #175

Wow, ProSense Jul 2013 #181

What the fuck are you talking about? NuclearDem Jul 2013 #182

Watergate was a crime. The NSA program is a legally conducted program. ProSense Jul 2013 #183

Fucking unbelievable. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #184

You made a bogus claim. You can be outraged because you were called on it. ProSense Jul 2013 #185

Again, you completely miss the point. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #186

No, the point was bogus. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #187

...I know you think that. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #188

He should come back to the US and make his case. Public opinion is shifting against him. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #41

He would be an idiot to do so.nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #45

He would be an idiot to stay in Russia. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #46

A agree. Rex Jul 2013 #97

oh.... oh... warrprayer Jul 2013 #48

I don't believe what Holder says. The Link Jul 2013 #52

Of course we won't seek the death penalty. KamaAina Jul 2013 #57

Eric Holder doesn't know the difference between torture and the hole The Second Stone Jul 2013 #68

I bet he does. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #76

"The US government does torture and assassinate. And it spies on all of its citizens. " chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #87

Nonsense. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #90

Fitting "rebuttal." DIck Cheney couldn't have sneered it better himself. chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #100

More nonsense. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #101

it is sad we have to promise not to torture Liberal_in_LA Jul 2013 #85

Despite the ProSense Jul 2013 #88

No, it marked an end to people publically defending torture as EIT. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #94

What can anyone say to this except, Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #89

We'll see what the Russians do. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #91

Well this might be the reason for the delay flamingdem Jul 2013 #92

And you under the illusion that this headline LondonReign2 Jul 2013 #103

I hope Russia understands that we have something called ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #105

No, ProSense Jul 2013 #107

Bradely Manning. ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #113

As I said ProSense Jul 2013 #116

Like I said, the US culture is so violent that even peace loving people ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #122

So Obama's complete inaction to stop the force feeding of prisoners at Gitmo? NuclearDem Jul 2013 #132

Torture is unlawful in US? Go tell that to prisoners who spent decades in solitary. Never even mind idwiyo Jul 2013 #108

Yes, ProSense Jul 2013 #110

If its unlawful, then why is it still going on?? darkangel218 Jul 2013 #117

Solitary confinement as practiced in US is torture. No buts about it. idwiyo Jul 2013 #118

Bullshit ProSense Jul 2013 #121

Solitary confinement as practiced in US is torture. Any admin that allows it, allows torture. idwiyo Jul 2013 #124

Wait ProSense Jul 2013 #125

Deal with it. :) idwiyo Jul 2013 #127

Holy crap. great white snark Jul 2013 #128

Obama's is just the latest one of the admins that allowed it to continiue. Every single one of them idwiyo Jul 2013 #130

Yes, every past administration did support torture in that aspect NuclearDem Jul 2013 #131

"Previous administrations may have been guilty of supporting torture that way... ProSense Jul 2013 #134

Yes, I'm saying that the lack of supporting evidence does partially absolve the previous ones NuclearDem Jul 2013 #136

Yes it does. Solitary confinement as it currently practiced in US is torture. idwiyo Jul 2013 #163

You're defining it for yourself. treestar Jul 2013 #153

Regardless of what you want to believe, solitary confinement as currently practiced in US is torture idwiyo Jul 2013 #174

What kind of solitary confinement do you NOT consider torture? randome Jul 2013 #176

Less than 14 days, daylight, free access to books, education, exercise, lawyer, NHS or equivalent, idwiyo Jul 2013 #179

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure they won't. forestpath Jul 2013 #112

So he's stating this to the world just so he can do the opposite? great white snark Jul 2013 #126

Yeah, just like he claimed he would protect whistleblowers when he was campaigning. forestpath Jul 2013 #129

Well, ProSense Jul 2013 #133

That is true, we get third world countries to do our torturing. Rex Jul 2013 #135

LULZ!! darkangel218 Jul 2013 #137

We won't torture or kill him IF we get him back to the US... hughee99 Jul 2013 #138

Did he have his fingers crossed behind his back? Rex Jul 2013 #146

Clearly, he should have written: ProSense Jul 2013 #147

I'm new here. Is there a way to negative rec a post? hueymahl Jul 2013 #148

In a related story, Holder also issued a guarantee to Charlie Brown that Lucy would not pull the Karmadillo Jul 2013 #149

If Russia sends him back, they might expect us to do the same for a real... gulliver Jul 2013 #152

Snowden is safer in Russia than in his home country Redford Jul 2013 #161

NO Worries! St snowedem will never let go of his Martyrdom.. Cha Jul 2013 #166

I'm thinking he never had a real relationship with his parents nor his girlfriend. randome Jul 2013 #169

Something 'odd' about you I think... for attempting to analyse Snowden's head without a bit Purveyor Jul 2013 #177

I didn't make a public spectacle of myself. randome Jul 2013 #178

LOL. eom Purveyor Jul 2013 #180

Because... Um... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #173

Snowden "hated Social Security, peddled NRA's garbage about Cha Jul 2013 #194

If torture is illegal in the U.S., then why are Bush and Cheney walking HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #189

I seriously ProSense Jul 2013 #190

After Konovalov, Medvedev and Putin have finished laughing, they will HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #191

We'll see. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #193

Putin already said they will not extradite. Peskov confirmed there will be no extradition. idwiyo Jul 2013 #195

We won't torture him AnnieBW Jul 2013 #192