General Discussion

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)

147. After Abu Ghraib, waterboarding and extraordinary renditions, the U.S. has

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 06:53 PM

Jul 2013

zero credibility left when it comes to our human rights record.

Why just a couple weeks ago, the U.S. pressured the sovereign nation of Panama to release CIA agent Robert Lady from Panamanian custody. Lady was being held for extradition to Italy under a valid Interpol warrant for crimes Lady committed in Italy that led to the kidnapping, rendition and torture of an Italian national.

Just a couple weeks ago, in case you were getting ready to lay this one off on the Bush administration. (Lady committed his crimes during the Bush adminsitration, but the warrant was executed on Obama's watch.) The U.S. has demonstrated its utter contempt for international law over and over and over again. So we can't piss and moan when others don't hop to when we command them to.

Screw that. That ship sailed on March 20, 2003 on a voyage with no certain return.

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Highlight:

A Shameful Day to Be a US Citizen [View all] Segami Jul 2013 OP

K&R forestpath Jul 2013 #1

K&R woo me with science Jul 2013 #2

Well, he could use the "I promised not to take Wall Street criminals to jail" route. Promise kept. Safetykitten Jul 2013 #3

"..We should not have to also endure yet another kangaroo court trial,... Segami Jul 2013 #4

That is what this brouhaha is all about in the first place. RC Jul 2013 #126

Recommend. KoKo Jul 2013 #5

Shame is the best face to put on this America. JEB Jul 2013 #6

Almost every day is a shameful day to be a US citizen for the past 25 years or so. n/t Triana Jul 2013 #7

yep heaven05 Jul 2013 #15

True. SammyWinstonJack Jul 2013 #66

+Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #95

Just because Snowden says so? treestar Jul 2013 #8

wow,. love it or leave it, eh. How about CARE about what it does in your name? Civilization2 Jul 2013 #14

Right wingers said that when we did not support the war treestar Jul 2013 #58

This is what John2 Jul 2013 #18

"We have nothing to be ashamed of here." I give you, especially, Exhibits A and B: WinkyDink Jul 2013 #27

So I post some photos of people jumping out of the towers treestar Jul 2013 #57

Because the Eight Amendment to our Constitution JDPriestly Jul 2013 #94

+1000 LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #91

While I generally agree with you, 7962 Jul 2013 #41

We do have a mixed history treestar Jul 2013 #63

No. Our own government created the situation and set it up. The whole kit and kaboodle. RC Jul 2013 #127

Noting to be ashamed of? Are you kidding me? totodeinhere Jul 2013 #53

This was about one issue and you've thrown in several treestar Jul 2013 #56

This thread is about a shameful day to be a US citizen, yet you want to compare us to Russia. totodeinhere Jul 2013 #62

Pretty much every country has much to be ashamed of treestar Jul 2013 #65

Makes up claims he will be tortured? My aren't you a trusting soul. totodeinhere Jul 2013 #70

That Snowden will be tortured meme is gettiing stale. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #75

And was the treatment of Manning as outlined by the special rapporteur alright with you? totodeinhere Jul 2013 #84

Thankyou LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #93

What part of Manning is military and Snowden isn't don't Progressive dog Jul 2013 #144

When people join the military they don't give up their human rights. Human rights totodeinhere Jul 2013 #156

They give up rights in every military everywhere. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #157

The US government should be ashamed for tracking our metadata and storing other data that JDPriestly Jul 2013 #96

Except that for decades we bragged to the world about our civil rights record, JDPriestly Jul 2013 #92

Wow Octoberfurst Jul 2013 #119

Let me just say NorthCarolina Jul 2013 #120

Absolutely ridiculous ProSense Jul 2013 #9

The SHAME comes from America having to make the claim "we will not kill or torture our citizen",. . Civilization2 Jul 2013 #12

Snowden said he would be tortured. He's lying Recursion Jul 2013 #132

Perfectly stated. nt SunSeeker Jul 2013 #16

Really? zeemike Jul 2013 #19

As usual, missing the point entirely. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #42

How do we know that those aren't assurances that have been previously negotiated? MADem Jul 2013 #79

Because Obama's popularity would tank in time if he obtained extradition of Snowden. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #97

I think that remains to be seen. Opinion is shifting. MADem Jul 2013 #98

I suspect that even more to the point is that Putin is... TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #116

Why wouldn't they milk it? Because revenge is a dish best served cold. MADem Jul 2013 #140

Didn't miss it I'm sure, just purposefully chose to ignore it NorthCarolina Jul 2013 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Jul 2013 #130

K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #10

We've had so many shameful days since 9/11 it's hard to calculate the damage done sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #11

For a while there in 2008, I had some "hope" for "change", bvar22 Jul 2013 #72

So did we all ... sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #76

Another one who had hope... DissidentVoice Jul 2013 #112

I doubt it's so sinister Tab Jul 2013 #13

I'm sure your analysis of Holder's motives is correct. Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #17

What does he know John2 Jul 2013 #20

It's that...what more does he have..and paparush Jul 2013 #61

its that kardonb Jul 2013 #71

"Dissent will not be tolerated" marions ghost Jul 2013 #87

It is ONLY to send a message to future whistle blowers usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #90

Did Snowden admit to stealing classified information? SCVDem Jul 2013 #21

If the U.S. Government broke John2 Jul 2013 #24

Aah, a majority were also "offended" before! Segami Jul 2013 #31

Because before, SCVDem Jul 2013 #69

Yes, I remember being one of them. JoeyT Jul 2013 #83

No Caretha Jul 2013 #89

The point is that America should not have to promise not to torture its own citizens Jamastiene Jul 2013 #105

when did this become about whether snowden 'was telling the truth'? pasto76 Jul 2013 #22

Transparency lofty1 Jul 2013 #59

Eric Holder is, in a word, evil. A poison pill in the O. Admin. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #23

Much of my life i heard the line 'it's the friends you have' nolabels Jul 2013 #124

...wingers say the same, many ignore both uponit7771 Jul 2013 #125

Feel free. My LEFT-wing credibility is well-established in the real world. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #150

k&r thanks for posting. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #25

People that keep harping on this statement from Holder are either completely disingenuous tritsofme Jul 2013 #26

The President needs John2 Jul 2013 #33

+1000 Segami Jul 2013 #35

It's downright creepy. Imagine if your wedding vows were spoken like this> BlueJazz Jul 2013 #28

I guess we have to impeach Obama.. Vietnameravet Jul 2013 #29

No, that is John2 Jul 2013 #38

No one disagrees we need a change and Obama has not been nearly as strong as I would Vietnameravet Jul 2013 #50

No, he did not. RC Jul 2013 #128

No. NOT the GOVERNMENT, NOT OBAMA! IMPEACH THE F'ing 1% FASCISTS! cascadiance Jul 2013 #48

Snowden is a TRAITOR ! penndragon69 Jul 2013 #30

Right Penn and Vietnameravet Jul 2013 #32

This is the business we've chosen OmahaBlueDog Jul 2013 #37

You mean the John2 Jul 2013 #40

If another terrorist attack happens, it won't be because of a single leak. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #47

Nothing new? HOW sir, would you sue the government without the documents he released? cascadiance Jul 2013 #54

That is the same thing that the "Royalists" said back in 1776. bvar22 Jul 2013 #73

OT (somewhat), but your post reminded me of a funny joke I once heard. Seems HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #99

Yes, shameful, but I am mostly neutral on Snowden himself, and I have an observation... Maineman Jul 2013 #34

If he had showed evidence of illegality or abuse, I would agree with you. randome Jul 2013 #86

You have had all the things that he has revealed spelled out for you Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #100

I agree with those posters who say that this is simply diplomatic rhetoric. searchingforlight Jul 2013 #36

We were shameful from Day One. Our beloved founders owned slaves. randome Jul 2013 #88

Sham followed by shame over and over again. I am reminded of another shameful day. sgtbenobo Jul 2013 #39

Bravo! And Carolina Jul 2013 #136

Thats funny because if he was a Russian he'd be sent off with the Pussy riot girls... Historic NY Jul 2013 #43

This is shameful, but not just for this instance... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #44

I'm sure Holder left an out for the U.S. AndyA Jul 2013 #45

hopefully it will be enough to convince them to extradite him arely staircase Jul 2013 #46

Um, will that happen before or after Bush and Cheney have HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #101

one does not, nor should not, depend on the other nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #103

Well, Holder says 'torture is unlawful' but self-admitted torturers are HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #104

torturers should be prosecuted, agreed arely staircase Jul 2013 #106

Missing the point. Can't say torture is 'unlawful' as a reason to HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #107

president obama ended bushs torture program in 2009 arely staircase Jul 2013 #133

Who will pay for the crimes of our government, Snowden has exposed? RC Jul 2013 #129

Snowden hasn't exposed any crimes arely staircase Jul 2013 #137

bruahahahahahahaha... RC Jul 2013 #139

what crimes then did he expose? arely staircase Jul 2013 #141

Because our government says it is legal, though operating almost in total secret, it is OK with you? RC Jul 2013 #142

so you can't name a single statute that has been violated? arely staircase Jul 2013 #143

I posted a section of the supreme law of the land, from the United States Constitution and RC Jul 2013 #146

And I referenced Art. 3 of the Contitution and Marbury v. Madison which say the courts, not you make arely staircase Jul 2013 #148

How would you know? After all, the relevant laws are SECRET! nt Pholus Jul 2013 #151

I take "exposed" to mean made public. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #152

You still can't claim you have knowledge of what is legal and what isn't. Pholus Jul 2013 #153

I defer to statute and case law and common law. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #154

Then you apparently are not paying attention. nt Pholus Jul 2013 #155

No, it's not. Chan790 Jul 2013 #49

Excellent article. Thank you n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #51

Because Bush did torture Americans malaise Jul 2013 #52

Don't forget Bradley Manning who was tortured according to the UN. n/t totodeinhere Jul 2013 #55

True malaise Jul 2013 #60

K&R midnight Jul 2013 #64

K&R I'm ashamed and "concerned and disappointed". The last 2 words snappyturtle Jul 2013 #67

When George W Bush's slick lawyers justified water boarding Hubert Flottz Jul 2013 #68

So embarrassing truebluegreen Jul 2013 #74

K&R MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #77

how far we have fallen. nt Javaman Jul 2013 #78

Seriously...it was embarassing to this DU'er who grew up.. KoKo Jul 2013 #80

Indeed a shame, adding to a very tblue Jul 2013 #81

Bleh. You're comparing Holder's assurances re: death penalty and torture to Hanoi Christmas bombingo Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #82

I'd say it's a safe bet that Russia has much more to be ashamed of. randome Jul 2013 #85

This is the same Holder who declined to prosecute Bush and Cheney for HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #102

And that matters because....? Recursion Jul 2013 #135

Holder's letter to Putin says Snowden won't be tortured because torture HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #138

Meh. That's way too much of a stretch for me Recursion Jul 2013 #145

After Abu Ghraib, waterboarding and extraordinary renditions, the U.S. has HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #147

How would you feel if he had promised not to beat his wife when falsely accused of doing so? Hekate Jul 2013 #108

Ashamed of my Government? 1awake Jul 2013 #109

Here, this will help you catch up. RC Jul 2013 #134

Great post. K&R NealK Jul 2013 #110

Fucking embarrassing GlashFordan Jul 2013 #111

I don't know why we would negotiate at all he is a traitor. 4bucksagallon Jul 2013 #113

Everything Holder says has gigantic loopholes in it.... truth2power Jul 2013 #114

It's a shameful day alright...nt greytdemocrat Jul 2013 #115

Well said. blackspade Jul 2013 #117

Snowden says he will be tortured and executed if he's extradited Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #118

+1000. This "I'm ashamed" stuff CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #149

DURec leftstreet Jul 2013 #122

Holder is the laughing stock of Wallstreet and the banksters. The shame is that he was selected... L0oniX Jul 2013 #123

Yes, standing up against torture is shameful. Cheney was totally right! Torture is awesome Recursion Jul 2013 #131