General Discussion

Vanje

(9,766 posts)

95. Erosion of gay rights in Russia has been a major topic in DU's LGBT group.

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:02 PM

Aug 2013

For quite some time.
Its been in the news. LGBT oriented news sources have been addressing it
The rapid acceleration of government crackdown on gay rights in Russia is troubling.

Its news. Its been news for a while.
Calls for possible Olympic boycotts, have thrown the issue into the mainstream (Straight) news, but the story has been lively in DU's LGBT group.

I dont believe Snowden has been discussed in LGBT group at all.

Its not about Snowden.

Click here to purchase valentine hearts!

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

165 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Can anyone truly deny we're on the path to a new Holocaust? [View all] Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 OP

Yow, especially considering the source Posteritatis Aug 2013 #1

The Olympics should be pulled from Russia, Russia is clearly moving on a path back in time. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #36

Russia has something of a history where mass murder is concerned. Oakenshield Aug 2013 #2

K & R for more exposure. LeftofObama Aug 2013 #3

there is always a genocide ongoing. cali Aug 2013 #4

The Holocast was a specific historic event against which there are no valid comparisons. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #5

Disregarding size, the 1994 Rwandan Genocide. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #6

And just so we don't forget there was Cambodia and of course Uganda (the Ibo). 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #11

yes, comparisons should be made, but dipsy is quite right cali Aug 2013 #15

I half way think you're right, but the other half says no 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #30

It hasn't. Not by historians. The Holocaust refers to a discrete historical event cali Aug 2013 #35

I think the word holocaust should be retired from the English language. leveymg Aug 2013 #44

Before it came to be associated with the Nazis, "holocaust" referred to NuclearDem Aug 2013 #148

So you're saying that the expression "nuclear holocaust" is invalid? Doctor_J Aug 2013 #52

uh, no. I'm saying that "The Holocaust" is a specific reference to the Nazi genocide cali Aug 2013 #53

The other popular meaning of "state-sponsored extermination of a group" is clear enough. (nt) Posteritatis Aug 2013 #56

The word "holocaust" dates from the mid-13th century MNBrewer Aug 2013 #114

Which started with, wait for it.... dbackjon Aug 2013 #121

+1. Nicely put. n/t Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #81

You are also disregarding the expression used - The Holocaust. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #13

Ah okay. I misread this entire OP and your response. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #18

The denial Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #32

no it doesn't. It would be offensive to deny that they're genocide. It's accurate cali Aug 2013 #37

So one of the groups victimized in the Holocaust Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #41

huh? Are you suggesting that there's an ongoing genocide in Russia targeting cali Aug 2013 #49

"Are you suggesting that there's an ongoing genocide in Russia targeting GLBT folks?" Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #63

making that claim isn't evidence. cali Aug 2013 #78

oh, and claiming that YOU frickin' KNOW that there will be a genocide cali Aug 2013 #38

I frickin' KNOW Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #40

horseshit. Find one single human rights group that designates genocide against cali Aug 2013 #50

You have obviously never studied the history of the Holocaust. Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #62

Actually, I have. Extensively. cali Aug 2013 #71

Prove it. Creideiki Aug 2013 #83

prove what? cali Aug 2013 #85

This is not about snowden LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #113

That is today's DU dbackjon Aug 2013 #124

Concern over Gay rights in Russia Vanje Aug 2013 #92

+++ 1,000 +++ n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #39

Why? enlightenment Aug 2013 #48

Ah yes, the "how dare anyone suggest similarities?" school of denial Posteritatis Aug 2013 #55

Your continued defense of Russia, Putin and the GAY HOLOCAUST dbackjon Aug 2013 #122

Comparing genocides requires agreement on the basis of the comparisons HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #28

^^This^^ leftstreet Aug 2013 #51

I keep seeing ^^This^^ dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #57

^^That^^ leftstreet Aug 2013 #58

Oh. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #59

He did say a "new" Holocaust. Although he did use the upper case H DevonRex Aug 2013 #66

WE WERE VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST. HOW FUCKING DARE YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE HERE, Zorra Aug 2013 #116

The fact you were the victims of persecution as were the Roma. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #118

That proves it BillStein Aug 2013 #119

Yep. Read: "You were imprisoned, tortured, experimented on, and murdered by the Nazis during the Zorra Aug 2013 #137

Never forget Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #131

This message was self-deleted by its author happynewyear Aug 2013 #152

But he did not say The Holocaust. He said a New Holocaust. DevonRex Aug 2013 #160

So very wrong. As a child I was taken to Yad Vashim, Shoah Memorial in Jerusalem Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #164

On top of which, gays were never "liberated" from the camps Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #129

That's sick. Can you imagine how crushed, devastated, those poor gay internees must have been? Zorra Aug 2013 #138

Paragraph 175 of the German Criminal Code. Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #140

false, there has been a genocide or ethnic cleansing every year since 1945... Deep13 Aug 2013 #128

I would not say every year nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #155

some of them took a long time. Deep13 Aug 2013 #156

I know, when I was in college we just did the big ones nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #158

You do know the Holocaust included more than Jews right? nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #151

Of course we're not, don't be so stupid. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #7

Russia has gay rights laws? Fumesucker Aug 2013 #9

In Russia, it's currently not legal to murder gay people. In some countries, it is. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #14

It's not so much wrapped up in religion in Russia, not so sure about Uganda Fumesucker Aug 2013 #20

Isn't it? My impression was that it was at least partly a post-communist Orthodox resurgence. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #22

I think the perception is that it's more national machismo (good phrase) Fumesucker Aug 2013 #23

Could be and could also be regional. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #25

In Russia they just don't give a shit. nt DevonRex Aug 2013 #69

so nothing to see, everybody move along arely staircase Aug 2013 #73

How did you get to there from "not a prelude to genocide"? Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #79

Oddly enough, they are a lot easier to notice when you are the one in the crosshairs Fumesucker Aug 2013 #8

oddly enough, if genocide happens in the Congo, no one ever notices cali Aug 2013 #12

No one? Fumesucker Aug 2013 #17

oh, I think you know what I mean. cali Aug 2013 #19

Oddly enough, Congo isn't hosting the Olympics. Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #33

oddly enough, they *are* trading partners of ours. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #153

Yeah, but they're just black people JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #47

But they're black. bravenak Aug 2013 #54

Russia is a conservative hatehole. nt Zorra Aug 2013 #10

Quite novel dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #21

Stalin bred it, and Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church feed it. Zorra Aug 2013 #26

The USSR was a fascist state that used the rhetoric of communism Scootaloo Aug 2013 #29

Why? dbackjon Aug 2013 #125

Jesus, the ignorance is breath taking nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #133

yes. if you're saying that there is a coming genocide in Russia of gay people cali Aug 2013 #16

Coming? Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #64

link. one link from any reputable rights organization that confirms that a genocide has started in cali Aug 2013 #72

8 stages of genocide undeterred Aug 2013 #24

Just because genocide is usually preceded by x does not mean x usually leads to genocide. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #45

Oh Lord, I hope note. I hadn't extrapolated down that path while considering where it's being done Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #27

It sure smells that way to me. LuvNewcastle Aug 2013 #31

Some people have to hate and kill and purify in their warped minds... the MO stays the same, but RKP5637 Aug 2013 #34

Do you have more than this snippet to support your claim? Avalux Aug 2013 #42

You're not truly aware of the scope of the law Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #43

Fighting hyperbole with hyperbole. JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #46

In 1936 the Olympic committee went to Germany to investigate because many wanted a boycott of Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #165

perhaps if we were to use upper case and lower case h for holocaust dembotoz Aug 2013 #60

apparently the syntax police want to reserve holocaust for Nazi Germany, and genocide for Doctor_J Aug 2013 #67

so if it is a lesser genocide you are lesser tortured and dead? dembotoz Aug 2013 #143

I think this is why the Russian Olympics debate is important. AngryOldDem Aug 2013 #61

oh for god's sake. the right wing has been on the move all over europe, esp. in the states HiPointDem Aug 2013 #65

Pab is GAY. How dare you. nt DevonRex Aug 2013 #68

You owe Pab an apology theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #70

how's that? HiPointDem Aug 2013 #76

I am offended by your remark! The law was just recently passed so that is why we are discussing it! hrmjustin Aug 2013 #74

bullshit. essentially the same laws have been in force in 10 russian provinces starting in (if i HiPointDem Aug 2013 #75

I am gay and I always care what my LGBT borthers and sisters are going through and so does th OP! hrmjustin Aug 2013 #77

that may be but it doesn't address my post. neither you or the op were posting about lfbt HiPointDem Aug 2013 #80

I tend not to start OPs on the issue but I have postered on LGBT issues in many countries. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #82

& as to the provincial laws? & as to the fact that russian courts have *not* interpreted these HiPointDem Aug 2013 #84

Yes but the laws are on the books. They may not have started to enforce them but they put them on hrmjustin Aug 2013 #87

yes, the laws are on the books, and i totally agree that they can be used heinously. but i HiPointDem Aug 2013 #93

The point is that more an more LGBT people in Russia are being marginalized and we feel the need to hrmjustin Aug 2013 #94

...... Vanje Aug 2013 #97

no, it's not about snowden. but the reason there are so many ops about russia's laws *is* snowden. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #99

Nope Vanje Aug 2013 #103

YEP. The reason this issue has suddenly become so prominent is because of snowden. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #106

Ridiculous! Vanje Aug 2013 #108

ridiculous yourself. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #109

this thread is turning into something more than a little bizarre. cali Aug 2013 #88

No, HiPointDem, as usual is minimizing Russia's hateful bigotry DevonRex Aug 2013 #90

OK, but the op is minimizing genocide and to point that out is to risk cali Aug 2013 #91

He's warning of the beginning of a NEW holocaust intentionally DevonRex Aug 2013 #107

Russians were 52% FOR Gay rights in recent years Vanje Aug 2013 #96

it's not illegal to speak about gay rights. and 'in recent years' = last year. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #101

Your article is a year old. Vanje Aug 2013 #104

that's what i said. that poll was LAST YEAR. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #105

Erosion of gay rights in Russia has been a major topic in DU's LGBT group. Vanje Aug 2013 #95

Bull. Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #130

You denial of the recent problems dbackjon Aug 2013 #126

official calls? link? HiPointDem Aug 2013 #142

Do you not read the posts dbackjon Aug 2013 #144

give me a link. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #146

You want a link? Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #147

you talked about 'official calls,' by which i understand representatives of the state speaking in HiPointDem Aug 2013 #150

Holocaust... maybe not. But cause for world-wide concern, for sure. Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #86

Russia and Uganda both have something in common. Initech Aug 2013 #89

Are we allowed to be outraged over the law in Russia and still like Snowden? liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #98

This has NOTHING TO DO WITH SNOWDEN. Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #100

I was just clarifying. Because there are people on DU who will do that. I'm glad to hear you are not liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #102

Did you SEE the word Snowden ANYWHERE in the post? DevonRex Aug 2013 #110

Absolutely *yes*. n/t Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #112

I love strawman in the morning nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #136

No. Anyone who watched MSNBC last night couldn't possibly DevonRex Aug 2013 #111

I hope not, but I'm afraid it may not be impossible..... AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #115

Wow, Pab, judging by this thread, it's way worse than we knew. Zorra Aug 2013 #117

No, you can't dbackjon Aug 2013 #120

"you are just a paid Obama supporter" Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #123

How exactly do we hook you up to the grid? nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #134

Not me. Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #139

It could be a magic/Econ system nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #141

What is happening in Russia now should set off warning bells for anyone who has studied genocide stevenleser Aug 2013 #127

The real warning bells came Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #132

Not sure if we are on the path to a new genocide yet... nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #135

it's scary how quickly modern society can revert with respect to civil, gay, women's rights Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #145

you have some people mstinamotorcity2 Aug 2013 #149

Even the Nazis didn't arrest Jesse Owens at the 1936 games. That was during the 3rd Reich. muntrv Aug 2013 #154

The Nazis actually announced in advance of the 36 Olympics that their anti homosexual laws Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #157

YES. Obviously, you have no concept jazzimov Aug 2013 #159

Since gays were slaughtered in it, I'd say he has a "concept." DevonRex Aug 2013 #161

Kick Vanje Aug 2013 #162

Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly -- we have our own Kisilevs right here Hekate Aug 2013 #163