Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Twelve Reasons We Need to Strike Syria Now: [View all]Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)316. LOL ...
Yes, one snippet - again cherry-picked. I'm sure you didn't read the whole page.
I'm really glad you linked to History of Anarchism. Come on in, and let's see what else it has to say:
There were a variety of anarchist currents during the French Revolution, with some revolutionaries using the term "anarchiste" in a positive light as early as September 1793.[38] The enragés opposed revolutionary government as a contradiction in terms. Denouncing the Jacobin dictatorship, Jean Varlet wrote in 1794 that "government and revolution are incompatible, unless the people wishes to set its constituted authorities in permanent insurrection against itself."[20] In his "Manifesto of the Equals," Sylvain Maréchal looked forward to the disappearance, once and for all, of "the revolting distinction between rich and poor, of great and small, of masters and valets, of governors and governed."[20] During the French Revolution, Sylvain Maréchal, in his Manifesto of the Equals (1796), demanded "the communal enjoyment of the fruits of the earth" and looked forward to the disappearance of "the revolting distinction of rich and poor, of great and small, of masters and valets, of governors and governed."39]
<snip>
While he opposed communism and favoured remuneration for labour, he also opposed capitalist wage labour (i.e. profiting from someone else's labour).[43] He also opposed rent, interest, and profit. He supported an economic system called mutualism. He urged workers "to form themselves into democratic societies, with equal conditions for all members, on pain of a relapse into feudalism." Under capitalism, he argued, employees are "subordinated, exploited" and their "permanent condition is one of obedience," a "slave." Proudhon's ideas were influential within French working class movements, and his followers were active in the Revolution of 1848 in France as well as the Paris Commune of 1871. Anarcho-communists, such as Kropotkin, later disagreed with Proudhon for his support of "private property" in the products of labour (i.e. wages, or "remuneration for work done" rather than free distribution of the products of labour.[44]
<snip>
The Paris Commune was a government that briefly ruled Paris from 18 March (more formally, from 28 March) to 28 May 1871. The Commune was the result of an uprising in Paris after France was defeated in the Franco-Prussian War. Anarchists participated actively in the establishment of the Paris Commune. They included "Louise Michel, the Reclus brothers , and Eugene Varlin (the latter murdered in the repression afterwards). As for the reforms initiated by the Commune, suchas the re-opening of workplaces as co-operatives, anarchists can see their ideas of associated labour beginning to be realised...Moreover, the Commune's ideas on federation obviously reflected the influence of Proudhon on French radical ideas. Indeed, the Commune's vision of a communal France based on a federation of delegates bound by imperative mandates issued by their electors and subject to recall at any moment echoes Bakunin's and Proudhon's ideas (Proudhon, like Bakunin, had argued in favour of the "implementation of the binding mandate" in 1848...and for federation of communes). Thus both economically and politically the Paris Commune was heavily influenced by anarchist ideas.[58]". George Woodcock manifests that "a notable contribution to the activities of the Commune and particularly to the organization of public services was made by members of various anarchist factions, including the mutualists Courbet, Longuet, and Vermorel, the libertarian collectivists Varlin, Malon, and Lefrangais, and the bakuninists Elie and Elisée Reclus and Louise Michel."[56]
Louise Michel was an important anarchist participant in the Paris Commune. Initially she workerd as an ambulance woman, treating those injured on the barricades. During the Siege of Paris she untiringly preached resistance to the Prussians. On the establishment of the Commune, she joined the National Guard. She offered to shoot Thiers, and suggested the destruction of Paris by way of vengeance for its surrender.
In December 1871, she was brought before the 6th council of war, charged with offences including trying to overthrow the government, encouraging citizens to arm themselves, and herself using weapons and wearing a military uniform. Defiantly, she vowed to never renounce the Commune, and dared the judges to sentence her to death.[59] Reportedly, Michel told the court, "Since it seems that every heart that beats for freedom has no right to anything but a little slug of lead, I demand my share. If you let me live, I shall never cease to cry for vengeance."[60]
Following the 1871 Paris Commune, the anarchist movement, as the whole of the workers' movement, was decapitated and deeply affected for years.
<snip>
The anti-authoritarian sections of the First International were the precursors of the anarcho-syndicalists, seeking to "replace the privilege and authority of the State" with the "free and spontaneous organization of labor."[89] In 1886, the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions (FOTLU) of the United States and Canada unanimously set 1 May 1886, as the date by which the eight-hour work day would become standard.[90]
A sympathetic engraving by Walter Crane of the executed "Anarchists of Chicago" after the Haymarket affair. The Haymarket affair is generally considered the most significant event for the origin of international May Day observances
In response, unions across the United States prepared a general strike in support of the event.[90] On 3 May, in Chicago, a fight broke out when strikebreakers attempted to cross the picket line, and two workers died when police opened fire upon the crowd.[91] The next day, 4 May, anarchists staged a rally at Chicago's Haymarket Square.[92] A bomb was thrown by an unknown party near the conclusion of the rally, killing an officer.[93] In the ensuing panic, police opened fire on the crowd and each other.[94] Seven police officers and at least four workers were killed.[95] Eight anarchists directly and indirectly related to the organisers of the rally were arrested and charged with the murder of the deceased officer. The men became international political celebrities among the labour movement. Four of the men were executed and a fifth committed suicide prior to his own execution. The incident became known as the Haymarket affair, and was a setback for the labour movement and the struggle for the eight-hour day. In 1890 a second attempt, this time international in scope, to organise for the eight-hour day was made.The event also had the secondary purpose of memorializing workers killed as a result of the Haymarket affair.[96] Although it had initially been conceived as a once-off event, by the following year the celebration of International Workers' Day on May Day had become firmly established as an international worker's holiday.[90]
<snip>
While he opposed communism and favoured remuneration for labour, he also opposed capitalist wage labour (i.e. profiting from someone else's labour).[43] He also opposed rent, interest, and profit. He supported an economic system called mutualism. He urged workers "to form themselves into democratic societies, with equal conditions for all members, on pain of a relapse into feudalism." Under capitalism, he argued, employees are "subordinated, exploited" and their "permanent condition is one of obedience," a "slave." Proudhon's ideas were influential within French working class movements, and his followers were active in the Revolution of 1848 in France as well as the Paris Commune of 1871. Anarcho-communists, such as Kropotkin, later disagreed with Proudhon for his support of "private property" in the products of labour (i.e. wages, or "remuneration for work done" rather than free distribution of the products of labour.[44]
<snip>
The Paris Commune was a government that briefly ruled Paris from 18 March (more formally, from 28 March) to 28 May 1871. The Commune was the result of an uprising in Paris after France was defeated in the Franco-Prussian War. Anarchists participated actively in the establishment of the Paris Commune. They included "Louise Michel, the Reclus brothers , and Eugene Varlin (the latter murdered in the repression afterwards). As for the reforms initiated by the Commune, suchas the re-opening of workplaces as co-operatives, anarchists can see their ideas of associated labour beginning to be realised...Moreover, the Commune's ideas on federation obviously reflected the influence of Proudhon on French radical ideas. Indeed, the Commune's vision of a communal France based on a federation of delegates bound by imperative mandates issued by their electors and subject to recall at any moment echoes Bakunin's and Proudhon's ideas (Proudhon, like Bakunin, had argued in favour of the "implementation of the binding mandate" in 1848...and for federation of communes). Thus both economically and politically the Paris Commune was heavily influenced by anarchist ideas.[58]". George Woodcock manifests that "a notable contribution to the activities of the Commune and particularly to the organization of public services was made by members of various anarchist factions, including the mutualists Courbet, Longuet, and Vermorel, the libertarian collectivists Varlin, Malon, and Lefrangais, and the bakuninists Elie and Elisée Reclus and Louise Michel."[56]
Louise Michel was an important anarchist participant in the Paris Commune. Initially she workerd as an ambulance woman, treating those injured on the barricades. During the Siege of Paris she untiringly preached resistance to the Prussians. On the establishment of the Commune, she joined the National Guard. She offered to shoot Thiers, and suggested the destruction of Paris by way of vengeance for its surrender.
In December 1871, she was brought before the 6th council of war, charged with offences including trying to overthrow the government, encouraging citizens to arm themselves, and herself using weapons and wearing a military uniform. Defiantly, she vowed to never renounce the Commune, and dared the judges to sentence her to death.[59] Reportedly, Michel told the court, "Since it seems that every heart that beats for freedom has no right to anything but a little slug of lead, I demand my share. If you let me live, I shall never cease to cry for vengeance."[60]
Following the 1871 Paris Commune, the anarchist movement, as the whole of the workers' movement, was decapitated and deeply affected for years.
<snip>
The anti-authoritarian sections of the First International were the precursors of the anarcho-syndicalists, seeking to "replace the privilege and authority of the State" with the "free and spontaneous organization of labor."[89] In 1886, the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions (FOTLU) of the United States and Canada unanimously set 1 May 1886, as the date by which the eight-hour work day would become standard.[90]
A sympathetic engraving by Walter Crane of the executed "Anarchists of Chicago" after the Haymarket affair. The Haymarket affair is generally considered the most significant event for the origin of international May Day observances
In response, unions across the United States prepared a general strike in support of the event.[90] On 3 May, in Chicago, a fight broke out when strikebreakers attempted to cross the picket line, and two workers died when police opened fire upon the crowd.[91] The next day, 4 May, anarchists staged a rally at Chicago's Haymarket Square.[92] A bomb was thrown by an unknown party near the conclusion of the rally, killing an officer.[93] In the ensuing panic, police opened fire on the crowd and each other.[94] Seven police officers and at least four workers were killed.[95] Eight anarchists directly and indirectly related to the organisers of the rally were arrested and charged with the murder of the deceased officer. The men became international political celebrities among the labour movement. Four of the men were executed and a fifth committed suicide prior to his own execution. The incident became known as the Haymarket affair, and was a setback for the labour movement and the struggle for the eight-hour day. In 1890 a second attempt, this time international in scope, to organise for the eight-hour day was made.The event also had the secondary purpose of memorializing workers killed as a result of the Haymarket affair.[96] Although it had initially been conceived as a once-off event, by the following year the celebration of International Workers' Day on May Day had become firmly established as an international worker's holiday.[90]
I'm most happy that you brought up that link! I can't thank you enough. There's much more, if you are so inclined to read it, but I know you're opposed to reading, so ...
How's that Plato's Republic dissertation coming along?
The consistent anarchist should be a socialist, but a socialist of a particular sort. He will not only oppose alienated and specialized labor and look forward to the appropriation of capital by the whole body of workers, but he will also insist that this appropriation be direct, not exercised by some elite force acting in the name of the proletariat. ~ Noam Chomsky
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
408 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
The only ones who didn't were Thoreau (and that's the modern political sense).
Fantastic Anarchist
Sep 2013
#54
See thats the thing...in this contex...you don't get to just "crown people" Anarchists...
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#62
you are deeming them Anarchists...when most have never made any such claim.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#95
Did Whitman call himself an Anarchist...or is he just another that you claim is?
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#168
I have never talked about the history of anarchy...talking about what it means...
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#389
they hate ALL govt...get it? We are Democrats...one in fact kept mentioning Plato..
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#350
NO an Anarchist at a Democratic forum....is the very epitome of Troll!
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#180
No....that is not Anarchists. Anarchist despise ALL forms of government
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#377
but you are not a Fantastic Socialist...you are the Fantastic Anarchist.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#390
Republicans would be accepted...BUT they wouldn't be able to change the "atmosphere".
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#391
See my point is Anarchists hate government and want them all disbanded...
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#392
I have shown time and time again...I know EXACTLY what it means...and I have the actual
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#167
I'm not an Anarchist....I have nothing to prove...but as long as we are on the subject..
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#293
No I am not interested in Plato right now....Do you deny the core principle of Anarchy
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#309
the still share the same core principle..hatred of all types of govt....violent or not...
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#388
You do know that Henry Clay Frick had murdered hundreds of workers.
Fantastic Anarchist
Sep 2013
#322
I wasnt supporting Frick was I? I was opposing your bullshit about Anarchy!
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#324
Okay now you are a Socialist...I don't blame you for trying that tactic...
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#317
Wow, you better tell that to all the libertarian socialists and anarchists then.
Fantastic Anarchist
Sep 2013
#331
You don't even read the material and then profess to tell me who I am?
Fantastic Anarchist
Sep 2013
#333
More like willfully refuse to fall for the inanity that anarchy is something beside the absence of
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#393
Nope...but the Anarchists have been trolling this site for a couple weeks now!
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#155
You mean Platos Retreat...that nasty Wife Swapping Club from the 1970's
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#321
LOL, my aren't you the self important little bully, OK then, ignore my advice, call out members
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#352
I haven't broken rules.....this place is for Democrats...not anti-govt types
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#354
You are not a bully but you are gunning for people that identify as Anarchists? You said you want to
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#355
You damn skippy...they are Anarchists...they are anti-govt...ANY govt....this is Democratic
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#357
I wouldn't say nerves.... a few funny bones maybe... you are rather amusing at times. /nt
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#353
So you admit you are just here trolling the Democratic Underground....
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#197
"Anarchy" and "anarchism" are not perfectly synonymous. That, perhaps, is the crux of the problem
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#206
That's the thing though. You keep repeating the dictionary definition of "anarchy" without any
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#211
As you've been told by others, a one-sentence dictionary definition doesn't tell the whole story.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#216
Simplified or not...that's the core principle behind it...no denying that.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#223
Yes they ARE trying to redefine the world... Anarchy is the absence of state correct..
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#395
How about Anarchist....lets see what the dictionary says about that....
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#209
It's really hopeless to argue with someone who won't educate themselves, carla.
Th1onein
Sep 2013
#133
I happen to have a great education....and I know what an Anarchist stands for
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#261
I am replying to nearly 10 people at the moment...sorry to insult you with a little typo in my zest.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#130
So now the major malfunction is I don't write long posts to you? So you are insulted
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#210
If they really wanted to, I highly doubt you'd have the power individually to stop it...
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#208
No, I really don't think so. I think your fear of anarchist infiltration is a bit overstated.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#397
Believe what you will. I just don't think things are quite that black and white.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#407
who is lying...I was born in 61....got a problem with that? Decidely much older huh?
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#106
then why did you pop in to defend a debate with Anarchists about what Anarchy is?
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#349
Really, you trust Boehner more than Emma Goldman, Gandhi, or Howard Zinn?
Downtown Hound
Sep 2013
#282
Dictionary definitions of a political philosophy as complex as anarchy will not suffice.
Fantastic Anarchist
Sep 2013
#113
I said dictionary definitions about a complex philosophy don't suffice.
Fantastic Anarchist
Sep 2013
#120
and its still Democratic Underground....the Full On Anarchist takeover of it hasn't yet happened.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#29
Oh, I see. So when you are proven wrong you change the wording. Doesn't work.
cui bono
Sep 2013
#198
You are insulted by being called an Anarchist and being told this isnt Anarchist Underground
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#111
but its still not Anarchist Underground...its Democratic Underground..
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#253
What's interesting to me is how you keep repeating that this is "Democratic Underground"....
beerandjesus
Sep 2013
#275
Yeah, blowing civilians ("collateral damage") to pieces is really liberating for them, right?
nomorenomore08
Sep 2013
#215
Unlike the expert on the subject, I din't start chewin' me tobaccee 'till my 5th
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#231
You forgot this one: "We're fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here"
W T F
Sep 2013
#35
This is the result of eight years of Kerry's efforts to bring peace to Syria.
OnyxCollie
Sep 2013
#36
K&R you missed Do you stand with the leader of the Democratic Party? Or do you stand with Rand Paul?
idwiyo
Sep 2013
#135
I saw your responce :) I just thought that OP was classic "Let's bomb'em 'cause FUCK RON PAUL!11!!!"
idwiyo
Sep 2013
#138
A duer posted one I thought was funny, (If we don't bomb) "We will look like pussies!"
quinnox
Sep 2013
#194
I'm against this war, but this OP adds nothing to the discussion. Only one of the reasons
stevenleser
Sep 2013
#236
The 9% whom are FOR any bombing, invasion or intervention should be drafted....
Bohemianwriter
Sep 2013
#272
The 1% has WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on its hands ... must think about ways to spend it !!!
blkmusclmachine
Sep 2013
#284
EXACTLY. I still remember Cheney and the "mushroom cloud." Such appalling fear-mongering.
anneboleyn
Sep 2013
#290