General Discussion

freshwest

(53,661 posts)

236. May I say something here?

Thu Sep 26, 2013, 02:02 AM

Sep 2013

I find the language of the OP offensive in tone at the very end and do not accept the premise blacks were somehow a voting block that voted solely on race.

But sadly, a great many white voters I thought to be Democrats did not accept a black Democrat when Hillary did not win the nomination. They literally jumped ship and voted for McCain and never came back, so I think I never really knew them at all. I see the OP echoing a RW meme claiming black racism elected Obama.

Be that as it may, I will answer on two things:

Hillary lost this white vote for her stances on issues that were important to me. The Iraq War, etc. Her performance at the pirmary debate with my favorite candidates, outraged me. But Obama struck me as the kind of level-headed, thoughtful and principled person I wanted in the White House. My opinion of Obama hasn't changed, he has proven to me that he 'gets it.' The more the 2008 campaign continued, I felt Hillary did not speak for me.

If there is no other viable Democratic candidate in 2016 other than Hillary... Well, hell. I don't know what to do.

You are speaking for me right here, well said:

...focused on high level infringement on civil liberties - they won't be able to focus on the most basic level - such as voting rights for minorities...

There are a lot of people who don't see a problem there. I see a major one that will give Teapublicans or Libertarians their liberty and freedom to destroy the entire country.

If Obama could run again, I would vote for him again. If Hillary is the candidate opposed to Paul, I'd be forced to vote for her. But will others do so?

And if blacks do have a great black candidate and are the main workers for making happen, I see no call to insist a woman is the next president. Obama has been called the First Feminist President. It's about the principles and policies, not the vessel.

Just my two cents. I'll try to scan down and see your other replies you refer to in this subthread.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

238 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The only reason Hillary lost in 2008 was Obama took away the Clinton's African American base [View all] coldmountain Sep 2013 OP

That played a role in it, for sure, but MineralMan Sep 2013 #1

The only reason that she'll lose in 2016 MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #2

The Clintons aren't stupid, they learn and they won't make the same mistakes they did in 2008 coldmountain Sep 2013 #69

Hillary is not a progressive. Support her if she's your cup of tea, but don't kid winter is coming Sep 2013 #130

Obama defeated Clinton because he got more votes than her. Whether another candidate can also PoliticAverse Sep 2013 #3

He got 124 more pledged delegate votes. Beacool Sep 2013 #77

The super delegates need to go away. dawg Sep 2013 #89

Super delegates and caucuses need to go away. Beacool Sep 2013 #150

Too bad the Clintons ignored the caucuses... Whisp Sep 2013 #178

Inane BS, as usual. Beacool Sep 2013 #207

don't worry Bea, she'll most likely win if she runs. here, i got something for ya! dionysus Sep 2013 #219

A bankie for me!!!! Beacool Sep 2013 #231

Interesting theory. One that has merit IMO. PearliePoo2 Sep 2013 #4

good question JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #6

no. any discussion of voter blocs and how they might vote in elections Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #48

Why? We can speak for ourselves, too. I think we're tired of people speaking for us. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #78

Thanks LS JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #104

Yes, I know it's not intentional at all, but we must speak up. It's simply not Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #108

I tried to explain a bit more on this sub thread JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #120

It seems that there is some discord between blacks and Hispanics and the Rethugs Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #129

Bang on! JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #136

Excellent. agreed on all points. freshwest Sep 2013 #237

May I say something here? freshwest Sep 2013 #236

Thank you Freshwest for your insight JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #238

PERFECTLY said, JAG. And as usual, I completely agree Number23 Sep 2013 #143

I wish we all that quote in mind when we discussed every demographic. ZombieHorde Sep 2013 #179

Mahalo Gen~ nm Cha Sep 2013 #157

But how do non blacks JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #103

well, the only difficulty I have with that is it has been clear that DU Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #111

Try this on for size JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #118

I'm willing to bet that there are no blacks in Jersey supporting Christie. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #135

Not a one JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #139

You make good points here, especially about the power of us showing up to vote. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #134

We use astrology. ZombieHorde Sep 2013 #180

How about we try for an actual progressive rather than assume Hillary's inevitable? NuclearDem Sep 2013 #5

Bullshit. Wait Wut Sep 2013 #7

Same here! n/t woodsprite Sep 2013 #12

+1 davidpdx Sep 2013 #158

Oh, she was elected? HappyMe Sep 2013 #8

The establishment/insurgency dynamic BeyondGeography Sep 2013 #9

this is only anecdotal of course but Egnever Sep 2013 #26

It took all of 2007 plus Iowa BeyondGeography Sep 2013 #45

I think you're right. As I said, most blacks including myself were squarely in the Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #72

Re the Dog Whistles JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #147

I just started following politics Jamaal510 Sep 2013 #154

that was really stupid for the Clintons to try and divide by Cha Sep 2013 #159

If anyone asks later, you're a sniper: Whisp Sep 2013 #189

Jesus Christ. Are we doing this now? NightWatcher Sep 2013 #10

Obama had a better message and a better campaign Whisp Sep 2013 #11

369 posts and offering up Le Taz Hot Sep 2013 #13

I wish we had 100 good Ds claiming they 'may' run. The USA can use the R money to boost the economy Sunlei Sep 2013 #19

Who is they? coldmountain Sep 2013 #28

I hoped that you would tell us yourself. nt Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #43

Whichever political machine spun you up bobduca Sep 2013 #211

Yep, remember 2007? Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #42

Leading up to 2004, Lieberman was the inevitable candidate. Vanje Sep 2013 #56

I can't tell if this is satire or not. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2013 #181

is the Rs we have to thank for Obama. They attacked Mrs. Clinton so much & imho, Sunlei Sep 2013 #14

Bullshit! That was NOT their plan. Their plan was to vote FOR Hillary Clinton! Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #65

Then why did Rs even attack Mrs Clinton at all before the primary? Sunlei Sep 2013 #73

This is very easy. They only *pretended* to like Hillary Clinton. They don't like her. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #75

President Obama is not unpopular with me but I know what you mean about the R propaganda machine. Sunlei Sep 2013 #95

the first black president did not *take* Hillary's voters CreekDog Sep 2013 #15

See if Warren can win blue collar voters off the Clintons especially outside New England coldmountain Sep 2013 #27

your OP is nonsense and racially insensitive nonsense at that CreekDog Sep 2013 #29

A rare moment. Wait Wut Sep 2013 #101

Thank you JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #124

Elizabeth Warren has far more appeal to blue collar HappyMe Sep 2013 #50

No Warren doesn't. People remember the good times under Bill Clinton coldmountain Sep 2013 #57

Bill does not equal Hillary. HappyMe Sep 2013 #60

yah, For A Good Time, Call Bill... Whisp Sep 2013 #127

You kind of make my point, no white candidate could have beat Hillary coldmountain Sep 2013 #30

No, I don't make racist points for you CreekDog Sep 2013 #33

African Americans are going to pick the candidate and it won't be Warren coldmountain Sep 2013 #36

African Americans are all going to do one thing and you are privy to it are you? CreekDog Sep 2013 #41

"Heard it through the grapevine", I suppose. Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #51

LOL!!! Wait Wut Sep 2013 #109

+1 davidpdx Sep 2013 #160

WTF! HappyMe Sep 2013 #39

CreekDog - you know you are on to something when You and I BOTH AGREE!! Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #97

No kidding! Wait Wut Sep 2013 #110

you smell it, too- eh? Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #112

I almost wanna thank the OP. Wait Wut Sep 2013 #115

it's like the 100th monkey effect CreekDog Sep 2013 #126

OFFS Marrah_G Sep 2013 #16

How do you explain Iowa? DefenseLawyer Sep 2013 #17

Cory Booker it is then Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #18

let me make some sort of addendum hfojvt Sep 2013 #24

+10000 JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #31

Shit, I hope not. sagat Sep 2013 #20

assimilate hfojvt Sep 2013 #21

Hillary lost my vote because of her vote for the Iraq War. PADemD Sep 2013 #22

No, it's not the "only reason". GoCubsGo Sep 2013 #23

I think that was part of it... cynatnite Sep 2013 #25

There were many reasons why Hillary Clinton lost. She HAD African Americans Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #32

Great posts! And may I add, did the OP pay ANY attention to the primary results last election? ieoeja Sep 2013 #93

Throw the mic! JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #142

Thanks for posting this hollowdweller Sep 2013 #163

There are so many other examples where that came from. So many examples. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #167

+1 uponit7771 Sep 2013 #166

To be fair. NCTraveler Sep 2013 #34

Have to disagree, big time. Whisp Sep 2013 #131

That is truly a great reply. NCTraveler Sep 2013 #200

Thank you for your "insight". Enjoy your stay. kestrel91316 Sep 2013 #35

Edwards was also a unique candidate and we won't see an equivalent to him in 2016 coldmountain Sep 2013 #52

Being white and southern isn't what made Edwards stand out in '08. winter is coming Sep 2013 #133

I'm a black woman JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #144

I love how so many people like to speak for us knee-grows. They know so much Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #37

Hillary has an African American base? NoOneMan Sep 2013 #38

Well, as the learned Romans used to say, "post hoc ergo prompter hoc." LanternWaste Sep 2013 #40

The Only reason ... GeorgeGist Sep 2013 #44

I'm white and I voted for Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton. Explain that. phleshdef Sep 2013 #46

I am also white Gothmog Sep 2013 #90

"The only reason Hillary lost in 2008 was Obama .......... Vanje Sep 2013 #47

Obama got 100% of the white female vote..... Vanje Sep 2013 #49

Will Barack Obama support Hillary or an insurgent? coldmountain Sep 2013 #54

Sitting presidents don't publicly endorse primary candidates. Vanje Sep 2013 #58

Just goes in TV with Bill to explain their signature legistlation after being introduced by Hillary coldmountain Sep 2013 #107

Nope. He took away the anti-war base. dkf Sep 2013 #53

Where am I? WilliamPitt Sep 2013 #55

Who the fuck are YOU to demand that I or anyone else support YOUR fucking choice? cali Sep 2013 #59

It was similar arrogance to OP from Clinton supporters... HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #62

She lost because she ran a lousy campaign. HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #61

That is a very good point that many forget and is lost in the revisionist history davidpdx Sep 2013 #164

No. Obama had enough delegates after Super Tuesday. Hillary was done. She decided to keep going... Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #171

I actually supported Obama and that isn't true, I don't accept revisionist history on either side davidpdx Sep 2013 #174

Not revisionist history. Obama was far ahead in delegates and super delegates Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #222

I think we are saying the same thing, but in different ways davidpdx Sep 2013 #233

Look, it's a moot point. The bottom line is that the thread is flamebait, attempting to divide Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #234

Uh, no. n/t tammywammy Sep 2013 #63

keep telling yourself that... nebenaube Sep 2013 #64

If Cory Booker runs against Hillary, he will defeat her Prometheus Perez Sep 2013 #66

Bill Clinton made some unflattering remarks that didn't sit well with black people. swayne Sep 2013 #67

That quote is just hearsay, as the two people who would know whether it was true Beacool Sep 2013 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author BKH70041 Sep 2013 #68

yeah, all those Black Voters in Iowa JI7 Sep 2013 #70

Sho' ya right! LOL!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #145

In other words: Nevernose Sep 2013 #71

Actually Hillary lost because Obama was the better candidate...still is bowens43 Sep 2013 #76

That is strictly a matter of opinion. Beacool Sep 2013 #82

I think so too. HappyMe Sep 2013 #85

In any tight race - primary or general - there are likely hundreds of karynnj Sep 2013 #79

LOL Hillary lost because she wasn't prepared to fight leftstreet Sep 2013 #80

Exactly DonCoquixote Sep 2013 #228

You really like to live dangerously, don't you? Beacool Sep 2013 #81

That must be why Allen West and Herman Cain are so popular. Starry Messenger Sep 2013 #83

+1 JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #123

she didn't focus on caucuses joshcryer Sep 2013 #84

HILLARY WOULD EASILY BEAT WARREN IN MASSACHUSETTS or BOOKER IN NEW JERSEY! coldmountain Sep 2013 #87

I DON'T THINK SO! HappyMe Sep 2013 #88

-More than 50% of Democrats in Massachusetts want Hillary Clinton to be their candidate coldmountain Sep 2013 #94

Its kind of silly to count votes before any candidates have declared. Vanje Sep 2013 #121

Mark Penn had a great deal to do with why Hillary Clinton did not win Gothmog Sep 2013 #86

Hillary will have new infrastructure this time with many from the Obama campaign coldmountain Sep 2013 #91

Oh, here we go. Arkana Sep 2013 #92

am I the only one to find this thread not only racist but, sexist to boot? what about Warren? Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #96

Nope. Funny thing is, the OP is quoting the Rightist meme that people only voted for Obama ... ieoeja Sep 2013 #100

What about all the rightist memes against Hillary on this website? coldmountain Sep 2013 #117

Like the OP impling that people will vote for Hillary just because she is female? ieoeja Sep 2013 #218

hill-arious. KG Sep 2013 #98

I won't return insult for insult, LiberalAndProud Sep 2013 #99

The more "invitations" I get like this one... Iggo Sep 2013 #149

This may come as a surprise to you, but when I look at a candidate, I don't think winter is coming Sep 2013 #102

You might not but the vast majority of people do take race and sex into account coldmountain Sep 2013 #105

Nope. This isn't a deli counter where Hillary took a number eight years ago winter is coming Sep 2013 #114

I am a woman and I am black and Hillary Rodham Clinton will have to EARN my vote! Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #140

I didn't back Hillary because she's too conservative. Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #106

Yeah and you ended up with the male version of what you didn't want. Beacool Sep 2013 #152

white, upper income, woman, i voted obama. i thought obama might not be as beholden to corporations seabeyond Sep 2013 #113

No electable candidate will go after Wall Street coldmountain Sep 2013 #116

i will vote whatever democrat and i would like to see a woman take the spot. nt seabeyond Sep 2013 #119

Try out saying this: Whisp Sep 2013 #184

It must be really cold on that mountain snooper2 Sep 2013 #122

HUH? CANDO Sep 2013 #125

Hillary lost because she had a credible opponent. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #128

This is an obvious attempt to flame-bait using race as the leverage DFab420 Sep 2013 #132

Anti-Clinton, Anti-Obama bullshit. LuvLoogie Sep 2013 #137

So this feels a bit racist. No? Agschmid Sep 2013 #138

If she's the Dem candidate... 99Forever Sep 2013 #141

The only reason I considered Obama was that he (at least) wasn't a Clinton. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #146

Hillary won NH because she cried the day before the vote. bunnies Sep 2013 #148

What kind of sexist comment is that? Beacool Sep 2013 #151

Well actually she did cry, but I think the above poster was pointing out the racism in the OP DFab420 Sep 2013 #161

No, she didn't. Beacool Sep 2013 #165

she got bad acting lessons from hubby: Whisp Sep 2013 #182

Typical that you would post RW crap. Beacool Sep 2013 #208

you miss the point(s), of course. Whisp Sep 2013 #210

You misinterpreted the clip, of course. Beacool Sep 2013 #230

right Whisp Sep 2013 #232

Thank you. bunnies Sep 2013 #213

The kind that mocks the racist comment made by the OP. bunnies Sep 2013 #212

That clearly explains why Obama won Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska hughee99 Sep 2013 #153

Hillary won most of the large state primaries. Beacool Sep 2013 #155

In many states with larger African American populations, hughee99 Sep 2013 #168

Oh, I don't disagree with you on that point. Beacool Sep 2013 #206

I will NOT be voting for Hillary Clinton, bigwillq Sep 2013 #156

That's simplistic at best, racist at worst. Barack Obama was a fucking great candidate and Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #162

very nicely said AtomicKitten Sep 2013 #235

Hillary's support of the petition to allow Bush* to war a pre-emptive attack on Iraq Samantha Sep 2013 #169

Teddy Kennedy endorsed Barack Obama Jan 28th. 8 days later Obama won Super Tuesday. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #170

I think that endorsement by the Kennedys hurt the Clintons the most. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #172

I think it pretty much sealed the deal. n/t cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #173

that was some of it but the country at that time was tired of 28 years of Clinton/Bush gopiscrap Sep 2013 #175

The Clinton era was the golden age of most baby boomers coldmountain Sep 2013 #191

Racist post. ForgoTheConsequence Sep 2013 #176

I knew from his presentation at Dem convention. Anyone else??? elleng Sep 2013 #177

I didn't know him then. Whisp Sep 2013 #193

Few of us knew him then, Whisp. elleng Sep 2013 #220

I don't know anything about that, ZombieHorde Sep 2013 #183

Few will be expecting a pony this time. It will be a reality based campaign coldmountain Sep 2013 #185

What were the ponies expected last time? nt ZombieHorde Sep 2013 #192

The end of war, the end of racism, single payer healthcare, less confrontational tone in DC coldmountain Sep 2013 #194

really? obama took away hillary`s african america base? madrchsod Sep 2013 #186

Now she gets Obama's team coldmountain Sep 2013 #187

I don't think that is going to work. Whisp Sep 2013 #188

It's not going to be the same for anybody, the pony has ran out of the barn and won't return coldmountain Sep 2013 #190

For all the acrimony from 2008, the Obama administration has been another Clinton administration coldmountain Sep 2013 #195

Well JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #196

first woman president DonCoquixote Sep 2013 #197

Bless your heart. blogslut Sep 2013 #198

Um..Obama had a coalition of African Americans, white liberals, young people, well-educated types... YoungDemCA Sep 2013 #199

What a silly, ignorant argument. longship Sep 2013 #201

That is a mindblowing statement malaise Sep 2013 #202

Get an African American or Latino veep and she probably walks into the white house wyldwolf Sep 2013 #203

Hells yeah, Time for Hil to go shopping for an ethnic running mate! bobduca Sep 2013 #214

Republicans and Teabaagers have nightmares about that scenario coldmountain Sep 2013 #229

We do not like the Hill and Bill. We do not like them, coldmountain-ill. randome Sep 2013 #204

...is a shit statement scheming daemons Sep 2013 #205

As a Hillary supporter, I think this is some of the worst advocacy for her imaginable. stevenleser Sep 2013 #209

While I voted for President Obama, I intend to support Clinton and I agree with your analysis Gothmog Sep 2013 #226

What I should have said was that Obama was a transformational figure that the 2016 race won't have coldmountain Sep 2013 #227

Plenty of racist whites voted for Clinton over Obama. David__77 Sep 2013 #215

Barack Obama also was charismatic and had a great life story. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #216

Of course there were blacks who voted for BO tavernier Sep 2013 #217

What? Grateful for Hope Sep 2013 #221

You mean more people supported Obama? Orsino Sep 2013 #223

Geez, a little early to be fighting over 2016. Rex Sep 2013 #224

Really? SMH Mr Dixon Sep 2013 #225