General Discussion

pnwmom

(110,257 posts)

374. This girl had contusions that were still making her sore

Sat Oct 12, 2013, 06:31 PM

Oct 2013

and could be seen in photos taken the next day.

Contusions are injuries. No, this wouldn't be legal in WA.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19960722&slug=2340496

The fact is that parents in Washington state do have the right to spank their kids. But state law forbids them from harming a child.

"While we recognize that parents have a right to discipline their kids, they don't have the right to inflict injury," says James Kelly, special assistant to the secretary of the state Department of Social and Health Services (DSHS) and a former child social worker.

State law defines child abuse as any practices "injurious to a child's health, welfare and safety." Child-welfare workers, in assessing whether children are at risk, use guidelines that consider the child's age and the force and location of the blows.

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Highlight:

Spanking Child With Wooden Spoon Not Child Abuse, Says State Court [View all] cali Oct 2013 OP

good. Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #1

Unfunny. It clearly is abuse. And corporal punishment doesn't work of course. HERVEPA Oct 2013 #10

a simple wooden Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #11

yes, because your experience is the be all and end all. cali Oct 2013 #15

everybody Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #19

no, it's not, but the vast majority of experts in the field cali Oct 2013 #21

doesn't mean they Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #23

yes, yes. the parents who hit their children are the ones that know best cali Oct 2013 #24

I have taken the cd classes Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #26

Let me get this straight--- trumad Oct 2013 #28

+1 LiberalLoner Oct 2013 #36

+1... Makes one wonder. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2013 #49

My wife and I used a wooden spoon on our kids when they fouled up Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #68

wow trumad Oct 2013 #93

Differences of opinions are what makes this place great. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #96

my opinion is that you are a fucking coward trumad Oct 2013 #99

Once again, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #101

you're god damn right its my opinion. trumad Oct 2013 #104

Ain't this place grand, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #107

Oh. look at you. So reasonable and calm. Too bad you can't raise a child without hitting them. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #394

I was juror #6 stevenleser Oct 2013 #111

thank you. n/t cali Oct 2013 #112

I was No. 4 - TBF Oct 2013 #113

It's a common double standard. Igel Oct 2013 #365

Something may be common TBF Oct 2013 #373

snarf trumad Oct 2013 #115

Trumad, usually I want to set you on fire with my mind-lasers... Scootaloo Oct 2013 #370

Jury got it right, especially #3 n/t kcr Oct 2013 #147

Thanks! Paulie Oct 2013 #261

Bad call, steven IMHO arely staircase Oct 2013 #179

You teach in one backasswards pathetic school district. MattBaggins Oct 2013 #282

It is permitted in many states arely staircase Oct 2013 #296

This is why the jury system is so useless here. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2013 #189

Doesn't really matter to me what he called me, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #198

Maybe it doesn't matter what you're called. It does matter what you do, Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #396

Your opinion. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #467

I respect your opinion. As I said in my jury comments most personal attacks are an auto-hide for me stevenleser Oct 2013 #205

Thank you! And to be proud to admit that one has no idea what one is doing on jury service. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #344

Yes, this vote is very problematic. JimDandy Oct 2013 #358

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Oct 2013 #518

Congratulations on doing your part to make DU a worse place to be. last1standing Oct 2013 #316

I wouldn't be proud of that. I vote to hide all personal attacks, regardless of what ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #342

I am proud of it. I enforced the standards for the community I am comfortable with and for me stevenleser Oct 2013 #485

You are a waste of a jury vote and are using the system for your own gain and platfrom. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #486

You realize you just attacked me personally for failing to hide a personal attack, right? stevenleser Oct 2013 #487

If that's how you feel, alert. I've merely stated the truth, without the nasty language ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #488

It's truly sad ronnie624 Oct 2013 #493

So true. But such cowards will never admit that. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #393

advocating for abuse and assault is not a difference of opinion MattBaggins Oct 2013 #279

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #141

My mom did that also, or if she was in the bedroom gopiscrap Oct 2013 #143

We never spanked our kids bare bottomed, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #146

It's still wrong. You took the easy way out rather than figuring out Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #398

Your opinion. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #468

Of course you do. Because you can't admit you're wrong. I reject your rejection. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #498

LOL. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #525

your child would "dissolve"? and you think that was a good thing? yikes. cali Oct 2013 #170

my English isn't the greatest, probably could have used a beter word gopiscrap Oct 2013 #175

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #322

Filling in more information about you. Thank you. uppityperson Oct 2013 #325

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #328

2 for. Thought so my dear. I have no clue what you are asking about. Bye. uppityperson Oct 2013 #330

Don't quit do you. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #331

I've a new friend! My old besest buddy finally gave up on me and now I've a new bff uppityperson Oct 2013 #334

LOL might be fun or really scary. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #335

You think you have a new friend. William769 Oct 2013 #336

Was she mean to you? ETA uppityperson Oct 2013 #337

You could write a book! cyberswede Oct 2013 #402

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #550

And...she's back! Nope. I was wrong. uppityperson Oct 2013 #551

Again??? Let this thread DIE already. arcane1 Oct 2013 #552

It was the only thing your parents figured out that you would learn from. There Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #397

How old were they when you stopped? n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #149

we spanked our daughter once when she was 13 (she was the wilder one) gopiscrap Oct 2013 #151

Children of the age of puberty are much too old. pnwmom Oct 2013 #155

she was slow getting to puberty (propably wouldn't have done it if she'd gone through it) gopiscrap Oct 2013 #159

Definitely, and I often wonder about all of this bare bottom spanking, something RKP5637 Oct 2013 #437

After about 9yo we stopped the swats Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #158

This girl was 12. What she described was a form of sexual abuse. pnwmom Oct 2013 #166

yes it is sexual abuse madrchsod Oct 2013 #310

Has any parent in the history of the US been charged with sexual abuse for spanking? Stay calm buddy Oct 2013 #354

If not, it's because our sick, violent society has condoned this abuse. It's wrong. It needs to stop Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #399

Spanking vs. enslaving a human being Stay calm buddy Oct 2013 #519

If you messed up at work and your boss assaulted you MattBaggins Oct 2013 #278

If you did that TO your wife you'd go to prison. LeftyMom Oct 2013 #313

Quite the strech there. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #318

If you don't care what others think, why post on a DISCUSSION board? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #400

LOL, so "I abused my kids and they turned out ok, so that means abusing kids is good". Brilliant! nt Logical Oct 2013 #421

No, but you're going to believe what you want to belive. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #470

You have made quite an impression here. Congrats! n-t Logical Oct 2013 #472

Thank you. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #475

He ought to change his name. MattBaggins Oct 2013 #277

This message was self-deleted by its author Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #286

I was referring to someone else not you MattBaggins Oct 2013 #295

My apologies and will delete. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #298

Wow, original. n-t Logical Oct 2013 #473

+1, n/t RKP5637 Oct 2013 #433

Too many parents are NOT capable of knowing what's best for their children pnwmom Oct 2013 #241

There is a big difference between hitting fitman Oct 2013 #67

some parents need their butts kicked- those that "whip their kids" cali Oct 2013 #108

Some parents need to go to jail. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #242

look what we have since the no padling movement fitman Oct 2013 #508

Kids are no more out of control in states without school paddling, pnwmom Oct 2013 #528

Some parents need their kids taken away MattBaggins Oct 2013 #284

Those are the words I've been looking for. Inept parents. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #403

No, actually, they don't. Parents need to stop being lazy and violent and learn Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #401

My parents were not lazy or violent fitman Oct 2013 #509

You don't know your history. This is not some unprecedented time period Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #513

It's almost 7 o'clock in the morning where I am fitman Oct 2013 #515

Sorry... 3:30 in the afternoon here... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #520

LOL, you 90 years old? n-t Logical Oct 2013 #422

no, 51 fitman Oct 2013 #510

LOL, ok. n-t Logical Oct 2013 #529

The vast majority of doctors think drinking bleach is bad for you MattBaggins Oct 2013 #275

So I bet you feel pretty tough when using that belt. Sort of enjoy it. n-t Logical Oct 2013 #420

Striking another individual, particularly with an object is assault MattBaggins Oct 2013 #273

A belt was used on me on occasion fitman Oct 2013 #66

Is half-naked paddling of a 12 year old okay? n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #240

I was never paddled half naked fitman Oct 2013 #511

Your parents had other methods available for disciplining you pnwmom Oct 2013 #527

"I turned out great.." RedCappedBandit Oct 2013 #384

That's what you think. But then you were abused as a child, so maybe Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #404

LOL, so if you were sexually assaulted and turned out OK then you would think that was OK also? n-t Logical Oct 2013 #423

I can't wait til your kids are old enough to call child protective services and have you arrested. whathehell Oct 2013 #63

You use a fucking belt on your children? bunnies Oct 2013 #80

delete. wrong place. nt bunnies Oct 2013 #82

sick stuff. cali Oct 2013 #86

People bragging about beating their children. bunnies Oct 2013 #88

And so glad it's not going unanswered. gtar100 Oct 2013 #120

My mother was the same way. bunnies Oct 2013 #132

I am so sorry you had to endure that gopiscrap Oct 2013 #145

It must have been horrible to lose your Dad at that age. bunnies Oct 2013 #164

Wow that's horrible gopiscrap Oct 2013 #167

You wound up being a social worker? bunnies Oct 2013 #183

Glad you feel light....yeah I was a social worker for 8 years and then burned gopiscrap Oct 2013 #187

omg! bunnies Oct 2013 #197

They are a lot more sensitive here in WA state because they have gopiscrap Oct 2013 #204

NH. nt bunnies Oct 2013 #217

BTW I was on the NH seacoast a couple years ago gopiscrap Oct 2013 #208

I live about smack in between Boston and Portland. :) bunnies Oct 2013 #216

No, I found everyone to be warm and friendly gopiscrap Oct 2013 #220

lol. You can HAVE the snow. bunnies Oct 2013 #228

OMG even two inches oif snow in a night is a huge thing here in Tacoma WA gopiscrap Oct 2013 #230

lmao! bunnies Oct 2013 #234

I love thunderstorms also gopiscrap Oct 2013 #237

Bhahaaaaa!!! pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #469

I was in Buffalo during the blizzard of '77 gopiscrap Oct 2013 #483

D: That was bad! pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #535

I loved it I was on a national singing tour with four others we were all 19-23 gopiscrap Oct 2013 #536

That does sound fun! pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #537

It looks like I'm not the only one OwnedByCats Oct 2013 #542

So called "fathers" who do "special" things to their children, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #174

Thanks. bunnies Oct 2013 #188

Unfortunately, the statues of limitation have probably expired, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #193

I definitely regret not sicking the cops on him. bunnies Oct 2013 #209

If you ever do run into him again, hope you don't, but if you do, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #214

A swift kick or two. bunnies Oct 2013 #219

Thanks you for the hug! gtar100 Oct 2013 #182

I had similar experiences. cali Oct 2013 #201

Seems you and I have much in common. bunnies Oct 2013 #221

And the real stupidity is that many of those parents expect pnwmom Oct 2013 #390

But, you know, many of the kids will. The parents screwed up badly, but Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #414

Some of them will. And some of them will go on to abuse their own kids pnwmom Oct 2013 #425

Most will go on to abuse their own kids. See my other posts Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #430

Thanks, Dark n Stormy. pnwmom Oct 2013 #432

I'm not surprised. A few of the loudest defenders of hitting kids on this thread Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #440

Yep. bunnies Oct 2013 #450

Thank you for sharing that. Some children cope with the trauma by Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #405

Yep and some are whining about the jury results but I sure don't care kcr Oct 2013 #463

I've noticed he likes to post provocative stuff like that to get people riled up. Skeeter Barnes Oct 2013 #369

not only do I use a belt Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #434

Your attempts at humor are as lame as your parenting skills. You Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #502

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #140

welcome to DU gopiscrap Oct 2013 #142

She's twelve years old. No excuse for this lazy, out of control mother.n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #148

It's abuse. Read the science and see how you've deluded yourself. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #391

... they fit the profile of an abusive parent, and then brag about it! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2013 #445

Pathetic. Funny, so many of them with such low post counts, too. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #448

"visible bruises" WTF we can't agree on that as fulfilling the abuse criteria? elehhhhna Oct 2013 #361

Does your boss hit you with a wooden spoon? Brickbat Oct 2013 #51

So a parent child relationship is equal to a manager employee relationship? former9thward Oct 2013 #71

It's worse laundry_queen Oct 2013 #178

Why shouldn't adults hit each other to show their disapproval or for performance issues? Brickbat Oct 2013 #229

You wouldn't get an alert from me because I don't alert anyone. former9thward Oct 2013 #291

Yes but it's purely concentual. n/t leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #77

You can tell the parents who use corporal punishment correctly Android3.14 Oct 2013 #57

only haD to only use it one on one child and twice on the other. Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #61

baloney. codswallop. NEVER hit my kid cali Oct 2013 #64

I swatted my kid once on the diaper enlightenment Oct 2013 #72

It takes a brave parent to admit they were wrong rather than justify their Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #407

She's associating with gang members fletchthedubs Oct 2013 #75

Yeah. Because beating a child is a GREAT way to get them to act how you want. bunnies Oct 2013 #95

Exactly. But, these people will continue to justify their poor parenting to Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #408

Perhaps the beatings are why the other family (the gang) looks appealing? VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #121

The wooden spoon doesn't keep the gang activity from happening gollygee Oct 2013 #339

Clearly the solution to gangs is violence RedCappedBandit Oct 2013 #385

I will give your opinion the thought it deserves Android3.14 Oct 2013 #253

Well, since you are a parent who isn't smart enough to figure out how Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #409

My kids were wonderful kids and are wonderful adults and I never hit them. pnwmom Oct 2013 #153

That's basically it. Lazy ass parenting. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #190

Awesome post. Absolutely everything the bragging hitters here refuse to see. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #415

Excellent post! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2013 #449

Very well put! We won't change the minds of these parents who Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #412

I'm calling bullshit MattBaggins Oct 2013 #290

No. There are other ways and parents need to learn about them and use them. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #406

if someone were to physically assault you with this spoon MattBaggins Oct 2013 #271

wow... really CPS?! They have resources to go after cases like this vs OVERT real abuse?! uponit7771 Oct 2013 #2

this IS child abuse. period. hitting anyone but your own child with an object cali Oct 2013 #3

Article reads it was her daughter and "left visible bruises" is VERY VERY subjective. I'd err on the uponit7771 Oct 2013 #4

huh? what the heck do you mean that is was "VERY VERY subjective"? cali Oct 2013 #6

Cali, I'm just going to follow you around in this thread laundry_queen Oct 2013 #191

it's completely pukeworthy to see this much callousness and ignorance cali Oct 2013 #285

I'm stunned by the responses to your posting. What a bunch of jerks are climbing out RKP5637 Oct 2013 #464

pretty discouraging to see so much of it on DU cali Oct 2013 #499

The court documents said more. pnwmom Oct 2013 #243

True, but respectfully, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #248

Courts have been wrong before and they'll be wrong again. pnwmom Oct 2013 #249

Oh believe me, I'm not justifying what these parents did, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #251

In NY if you use an object MattBaggins Oct 2013 #293

I don't live in NY, and I certainly don't condone what happened to this girl, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #303

It is abuse. The State of NY recognizes it as such. MattBaggins Oct 2013 #305

As I said, I don't live in NY Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #312

OK, suppose we pretend it isn't abuse. It's still wrong. As LaundryQueen said: Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #416

Respectfully... Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #413

In NY if you strike a child and CPS finds out, you will go to court MattBaggins Oct 2013 #292

I agree. It doesn't seem like much at first glance but leaving bruises with any object is over the.. BlueJazz Oct 2013 #5

My mom spanked me with a peachtree switch. moriah Oct 2013 #8

Was it child abuse, you ask? Yes, in my book it is. cali Oct 2013 #14

"accidentally harming me" trumad Oct 2013 #41

Seriously, what she did shows the real problem with spanking to me. moriah Oct 2013 #43

I chuckled because if she's hitting you trumad Oct 2013 #44

So what you are saying... Brickbat Oct 2013 #54

If the only punishment matching what they *did* was to spank.... moriah Oct 2013 #59

So you'd hit someone after calm, rational thought to show her that hitting is wrong. Brickbat Oct 2013 #225

Oh, I see, so you hit them because hitting is wrong. Genius. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #417

I get your point, but it'd be more to teach them *why* it's wrong. moriah Oct 2013 #471

Everyone who hits thinks they have a good excuse for using hitting to teach a child Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #497

I think a parent would almost have to be a sadist pnwmom Oct 2013 #260

Did your mom know or did she not know about your skin condition? Jamastiene Oct 2013 #70

She had never spanked me before. Even with her bare hand. moriah Oct 2013 #130

But the hives would have jumped out with one swat! pnwmom Oct 2013 #347

They take a minute to develop (about exactly that, actually) but .... moriah Oct 2013 #351

A minute? I could "draw" hives on my skin with my nail pnwmom Oct 2013 #352

Ahh, your skin shows dermatographia too? moriah Oct 2013 #357

I did until about ten years ago. The first time it happened pnwmom Oct 2013 #360

Or a biopsy; a biopsy is the best way to check for celiac disease REP Oct 2013 #439

Right. A biopsy is the gold standard for Celiac disease. pnwmom Oct 2013 #453

yes. VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #124

You poor girl that must have hurt gopiscrap Oct 2013 #154

Really, not worse than walking through a bad patch of brush nekkid... ;) moriah Oct 2013 #364

Yeah no kidding, you seem to have a good sense of humor gopiscrap Oct 2013 #376

the end of your post is funny, gopiscrap Oct 2013 #157

She made you bleed. This was child abuse. pnwmom Oct 2013 #244

Yes MattBaggins Oct 2013 #294

Apparently the court disagrees with you and everyone else here Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #69

fine. but the vast majority of experts agree with me. cali Oct 2013 #84

As I said, we all have our own opinion and mine is different than yours Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #91

oh really and is it our business if a child is put in the hospital because of said "discipline"? VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #129

What business is it of society if someone hits their wife? MattBaggins Oct 2013 #297

You send your abused children out into our world, so it is our business. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #419

Wow this thread sure struck a nerve gopiscrap Oct 2013 #173

Like you, I see alot of actual child abuse in the course of my job. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #177

My experience sad to say, is that most of the time the State intervened too late gopiscrap Oct 2013 #180

Can't fault your thought process there. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #185

I agree. I live in a very military area and in 1989 I was the chair of the city initiative in gopiscrap Oct 2013 #192

Apparently the court is STUPID. The girl clearly described abuse. pnwmom Oct 2013 #245

you are correct about the bruises but wrong about the hitting itself being considered assault arely staircase Oct 2013 #236

They BETTER go after cases like this. pnwmom Oct 2013 #199

Hard to believe the court didn't see this as child abuse! We B Calm Oct 2013 #7

You posted this article without comment oberliner Oct 2013 #9

If you read my comments in this thread, you'd know I strongly disagree. cali Oct 2013 #13

The negative effects on children include increased aggression aggression and noncompliance-- Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #12

+1 LiberalLoner Oct 2013 #38

Oh, great. Here come the stories. Paladin Oct 2013 #16

Right or not, in my state, it's legal. moriah Oct 2013 #25

Ease off a little, OK? Paladin Oct 2013 #30

Did I say you were raising your kids wrong? moriah Oct 2013 #31

Sorry if I overreacted. Paladin Oct 2013 #65

Hey Moriah, you sound pretty cool...I wouldn't worry about what others are saying! gopiscrap Oct 2013 #162

I use to get beat with a shoe RandiFan1290 Oct 2013 #17

I think hitting children to discipline them is lazy and sick. cali Oct 2013 #18

in the case of this child Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #52

Yes. And, as a bonus, not sexually abusive. nt pnwmom Oct 2013 #250

You deserved to have your mom act violently toward you so she could get frustrations out? Brickbat Oct 2013 #53

Glad to hear it... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #20

right. leaving bruise on a kid from hitting them, doesn't qualify as cali Oct 2013 #22

Cali, I rarely agree with you but in this case you are not only right... Walk away Oct 2013 #27

I'm surprised by many of the posts endorsing this. cali Oct 2013 #29

They are in denial laundry_queen Oct 2013 #206

Sorry, I don't mean to stalk you, but, well said. This goes for Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #424

I think that those who feel corporal punishment is fine should take a long, hard look at how Happyhippychick Oct 2013 #32

While I don't say it's "fine"... I think my mother.... moriah Oct 2013 #48

I love your thoughtful answer! Happyhippychick Oct 2013 #56

I mentioned my story because it was truly a one-time abberation in Mom's childrearing. moriah Oct 2013 #137

I agree with you about the jail part. In the case you describe, since it never happened Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #426

I do think CPS has a lot worse cases to deal with than a 12-year-old who was spanked. moriah Oct 2013 #442

I'm sure they do, but this case looks like abuse to me. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #444

Children are not for hitting Brainstormy Oct 2013 #33

It's a vicious cycle kcr Oct 2013 #34

If you are reduced to striking a child Le Taz Hot Oct 2013 #35

Declaring it doesn't make it so... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #50

No but studies show that it is so. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #207

I would be very interested to see the study that proves a subjective opinion... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #246

Really? laundry_queen Oct 2013 #268

I am just fascinated... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #465

Wrong. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #477

You have very low standard for successful and functioning... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #480

I DO judge people who think hitting a child is acceptable. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #481

I don't demand that everyone hold the exact same beliefs... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #484

I don't (can't) head bob so no, probably not as amusing. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #489

The final cry of someone with nothing to say... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #490

LOL coming from you. And your 'beliefs'. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #491

It's adorable... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #492

So basically you don't believe in psychology. Ok. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #494

Double points for making stuff up... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #495

No one is demanding everyone have the exact same beliefs. Eat Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #504

Congratulations... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #505

Post removed Post removed Oct 2013 #507

You're the one with the narrow view. Studies of large groups of children Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #501

Sure, because you can tell from the outside if someone is free of Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #500

You seem fussy... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #503

My "opinion" is backed by those who have studied the issue on a large scale. Yours in based Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #506

As stated elsewhere in the thread... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #512

If you need to hit your children to teach them something you are a failure MattBaggins Oct 2013 #301

I see you come here just to defend terrible parenting. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #429

No, it's not the declaring it wrong that makes it so, it's the fact that it is wrong. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #514

It seems to drive you crazy.... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #517

Personally, I have never hit a child and think that other punishments are more effective, but charmay Oct 2013 #37

I disagree. PotatoChip Oct 2013 #171

Using the HuffPo as a legal source makes you seem uninformed when they incorrectly report a verdict. msanthrope Oct 2013 #39

Still fucking child abuse. trumad Oct 2013 #42

Perhaps. And I am not commenting morally, but legally. The state must and should take into account msanthrope Oct 2013 #46

fair enough- though I hope you point this out in every single story cali Oct 2013 #45

When I come across sloppy legal reporting, I absolutely comment on it. It's what I do. nt msanthrope Oct 2013 #47

The Court erred in considering it possible that the parent's behavior pnwmom Oct 2013 #254

Your own link disproves you--- msanthrope Oct 2013 #324

Are you seriously saying that a child who has said that she's afraid pnwmom Oct 2013 #326

I don't think that child's afraid of her parents. And I don't think she made any statement in the msanthrope Oct 2013 #362

So you don't believe this girl when she said that she was afraid of them? pnwmom Oct 2013 #363

I don't believe the social worker. Neither did the court, it seems. And I think it's sloppy msanthrope Oct 2013 #371

That is her recantation of her statement to the social worker. pnwmom Oct 2013 #378

Um, no--she didn't make a sworn statement to the social worker. Nor could the social worker msanthrope Oct 2013 #382

WHAT KIND OF SOCIAL WORKER ASKS VICTIMS TO MAKE SWORN STATEMENTS? pnwmom Oct 2013 #383

You know, I'm really not sure why you have a problem with the remand on this case. Nor am msanthrope Oct 2013 #410

I'm yelling because this is such a serious issue and you don't get it. pnwmom Oct 2013 #431

Judges don't imply. They rule. And the appellate court made no determination of what is reasonable msanthrope Oct 2013 #438

I have 3 kids---20---19---16 trumad Oct 2013 #40

Reading through this thread... bunnies Oct 2013 #139

I can't believe the one who wants to make their kids wait in anticipation. kcr Oct 2013 #161

I know, right? bunnies Oct 2013 #168

Those bible based how to train up your child by abusing them books kcr Oct 2013 #172

I totally agree with every word of what you just said. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #211

Agreed. Just like the "God hates fags" assholes think they are doing right by god. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #436

The diminishing and normalization of violence in this thread is disgusting. Brickbat Oct 2013 #55

+1 cali Oct 2013 #58

Odd that the only people it is still legal to use physical assault against are the weakest. alphafemale Oct 2013 #60

Isn't that the sickest part of it? MattBaggins Oct 2013 #304

Seriously sick. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #441

Take away the cell phone! Its abuse/violence to hit others and criminal abuse when there are bruises Sunlei Oct 2013 #62

My mother used a small branch from a tree to strike me. former9thward Oct 2013 #73

in your opinion. most experts disagree with you. cali Oct 2013 #74

Yes it was MattBaggins Oct 2013 #306

If you lived in my state it would be. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #350

Looking at your profile I assume you live in WA. former9thward Oct 2013 #355

This girl had contusions that were still making her sore pnwmom Oct 2013 #374

I only described my experience. former9thward Oct 2013 #380

A lot of totally fucked up shit is "allowed." In case you were using that Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #446

As usual you are trying to put words in my mouth. former9thward Oct 2013 #526

Maybe, maybe not. It was still a lazy, lame way to parent. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #443

I turned out fine. former9thward Oct 2013 #524

Well, it might end up like this: jsr Oct 2013 #76

This ruling is simple common sense and right thinking parents will agree with it. leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #78

more like lazy, stupid parents agree with it. Parents who hit their children cali Oct 2013 #79

LOL. Your buttons are so easy to push... leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #81

You think discussing abuse is a LOL issue? MattBaggins Oct 2013 #308

That's all you got? The humor police tactic. Very original. leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #395

I hope you're not a parent and never will be one. nt pnwmom Oct 2013 #348

That's your opinion and your opinion only, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #83

nope. it's the opinion of the vast majority of experts. sorry, pal. cali Oct 2013 #87

"Experts" Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #92

tough guy! trumad Oct 2013 #94

You have no idea. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #97

yeah... trumad Oct 2013 #100

Oh, don't worry. He will. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #447

LOL Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #474

Well, then you're just hilarious, dude. Bragging that you bring others Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #496

LOL. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #523

Just in case you missed it: Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #451

yes. child psychologists, child rearing experts cali Oct 2013 #98

cali you are waisting your fucking time trumad Oct 2013 #102

you are right. (how often do I say that?) cali Oct 2013 #105

makes me sick trumad Oct 2013 #110

One more time, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #114

they aren't so-called "experts". they are experts. period. cali Oct 2013 #117

That's your opinion they're experts, mine opinion is different. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #122

no. wrong again. critical thinking is clearly not your strong suit cali Oct 2013 #125

these people spank their kids cause they see them as property... VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #133

Really excellent point! Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #454

You know who can act all "Look how calm I'm being, so that makes Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #452

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #144

Most grow up to cause havoc on the internet in libraries. William769 Oct 2013 #150

Post removed Post removed Oct 2013 #255

Internet tough guy? Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #259

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #264

Can't help yourself? hrmjustin Oct 2013 #265

I love it Bill. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #262

You got that one nailed. nt msanthrope Oct 2013 #418

I'll just say to you what I've said to the others, Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #152

And some opinions are worth more than others laundry_queen Oct 2013 #213

Opinons are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #218

LOL. Okay. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #223

I'm happy that we've come to an agreement. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #227

Well, mine had snark intended. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #235

As are you. Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #238

The difference is I have no need to build up my post count. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #299

Post count? Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #309

Yeah right. If a gas station attendant has the opinion that Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #456

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #247

millions? Whatever gets you through the night bra.... VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #131

right thinking MattBaggins Oct 2013 #307

Right thinking parents will immediately recognize it as sexual abuse pnwmom Oct 2013 #320

So now spanking is rape? I should have seen it coming, I guess. leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #327

Fifty shades of gray type discipline is sexual abuse, pnwmom Oct 2013 #329

Sorry I hadn't realized they had blind-folded and hand-cuffed thier victim. leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #332

Forcing your naked 12 yr. old, or even your half-naked 12 yr. old pnwmom Oct 2013 #340

Save yourself a headache MattBaggins Oct 2013 #375

Why should you have seen it coming, exactly. Too much Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #458

What the fuck?! bunnies Oct 2013 #85

sick as well as sickening that people on DU happily endorse hitting children with cali Oct 2013 #89

You got that right. bunnies Oct 2013 #90

I think you nailed it - TBF Oct 2013 #116

That would be nice. Then again, i guess it's good to know Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #459

Spanking a child with anything with enough force to leave visible bruises is child abuse nt arely staircase Oct 2013 #103

Bruises are bruises. TroglodyteScholar Oct 2013 #106

Wood spoon? Sickening. cvoogt Oct 2013 #109

It's a good way to teach impulse control/self-control jsr Oct 2013 #128

Not only is it abuse, it misses a chance to create maturity and self-regulation. nolabear Oct 2013 #118

long winded? Not in the least! what a great, great post. thanks. cali Oct 2013 #119

*Whew!* I've been here too long. I was bracing for, well, a verbal whuppin'. nolabear Oct 2013 #123

I'm so glad you did hit that button cali Oct 2013 #127

+1 leftstreet Oct 2013 #135

You are teaching while disciplining chowder66 Oct 2013 #176

Exactly. And thanks. The amazing moments were bountiful, so it balanced out! nolabear Oct 2013 #195

You're welcome and thanks chowder66 Oct 2013 #202

Maybe a bit but their dad is just a great guy. nolabear Oct 2013 #274

Excellent post laundry_queen Oct 2013 #222

Amen. I'm glad you've held out. The reward is good! nolabear Oct 2013 #281

Thank you. You win the thread - by a mile. Celefin Oct 2013 #231

I know. I smacked a diapered bottom once too. I hate that. nolabear Oct 2013 #280

Excellent post! Thank you. (nt) PotatoChip Oct 2013 #256

... nolabear Oct 2013 #283

Superb post. Of course, for the child beaters here it will be Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #460

I always heard the advice that you should never spank a child in anger. Laffy Kat Oct 2013 #126

So it can be called "discipline" when done to one's own child but it's assault in all other cases. gtar100 Oct 2013 #134

+1 gollygee Oct 2013 #138

I don't think that putting the child in foster care would have been better. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #136

The girl wanted to stay with her grandparents. pnwmom Oct 2013 #165

Have you considered that the grandparents were probably ok with the spanking? missingthebigdog Oct 2013 #530

I"m listening to the girl, who said the grandmother wasn't scary pnwmom Oct 2013 #532

There is no "Hysteria Brigade." Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #462

bullshit - HITTING A CHILD mzteris Oct 2013 #156

What the girl described was a form of SEXUAL ABUSE pnwmom Oct 2013 #160

you are so right. it is sexual abuse as well as physical abuse. cali Oct 2013 #169

cali, it would be interesting to see, pnwmom Oct 2013 #181

that would be interesting. I strongly suspect that people here would be reacting cali Oct 2013 #196

So . . . would you mind adding the info? n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #200

not at all. I think it's a little late for it, but what the hey. cali Oct 2013 #203

Thanks! You're on the greatest page now, so there will probably be pnwmom Oct 2013 #210

In these days of high tech wizardry, simply depriving them of it is significant punishment. roamer65 Oct 2013 #163

New title: Paddling half-naked 12 year old is not child abuse, says State Court pnwmom Oct 2013 #184

Ugh. mzmolly Oct 2013 #186

A poem by African-American poet Robert Hayden (1913-1980) tblue37 Oct 2013 #194

Thanks! n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #212

My dad spanked me once with a wooden spoon and left a red mark on my butt. dkf Oct 2013 #215

Was your dad sexually abusive, too? I suspect not. pnwmom Oct 2013 #233

how come i knew before i even opened this thread there'd be some assholes defending it. KG Oct 2013 #224

Because that's the way these threads go... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #232

If you have to spank your kid FrodosPet Oct 2013 #226

Whooo-boy!!! Iggo Oct 2013 #239

My folks chased me down the sidewalk with a bamboo switch in hand. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2013 #252

It sounds like you have a terrible childhood, with at least one parent pnwmom Oct 2013 #258

Im sorry you had to go through that... darkangel218 Oct 2013 #266

Thank you. Part of the hoarding dynamic is extreme social isolation. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2013 #288

You need to break away from that. darkangel218 Oct 2013 #302

You are a survivor. pnwmom Oct 2013 #323

Thank you!! Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2013 #338

What a horrible childhood gopiscrap Oct 2013 #388

Your story made me cry Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #359

Well, not really. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2013 #479

While abuse really does depend on the intent *and* the extent of the injuries....I can say this: AverageJoe90 Oct 2013 #257

my oldest sister put it quite well once.... ejpoeta Oct 2013 #263

Show me an adult who was repeatedly hit as a child pnwmom Oct 2013 #289

There is never an excuse for hitting a child! darkangel218 Oct 2013 #267

oh goody Kate Gosselin sad-cafe Oct 2013 #269

She crossed my mind when I read this too laundry_queen Oct 2013 #272

This seems to be a clear case of child abuse to me. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #270

And some on here think thats fine. darkangel218 Oct 2013 #276

It's pretty sad. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #311

Thats aside fron scaring them for life. darkangel218 Oct 2013 #314

That's true. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #317

I was beaten with a belt as a kid as were my sisters for really doing nothing wrong. I have RKP5637 Oct 2013 #287

Thats exactly what ive been saying, RKP! darkangel218 Oct 2013 #315

... RKP5637 Oct 2013 #427

Been there. Still get mad thinking about it to this day. You are not alone. Skeeter Barnes Oct 2013 #377

Here's a dialogue I have w/ students (seniors): Nevernose Oct 2013 #300

You sound like a wonderful, even inspirational, teacher. pnwmom Oct 2013 #345

Your post made me smile. Those kids are very lucky to have you. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #368

Does this mean you can bruise a child as long as bruising was not "your intent"? Under that line appleannie1 Oct 2013 #319

My adult children tell me the worse thing I ever did to them was make them sit together in a chair, appleannie1 Oct 2013 #321

Corporal punishment is not prevented in schools in many states, either. kwassa Oct 2013 #333

And that is part of the problem, I agree. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #341

I would pull my kids out of a school that practiced corporal punishment on them gopiscrap Oct 2013 #346

In earlier generations it probably happened in most schools. pnwmom Oct 2013 #349

It hapened to me all the time gopiscrap Oct 2013 #353

I don't blame you for hating that school. Of course you did. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #386

Once I go to my foster home and was put into a gopiscrap Oct 2013 #389

Parents, if what you're doing to your child in the name of "discipline" could be a scene pnwmom Oct 2013 #343

Spanking a 12 year old is fucking ridiculous, wooden spoon or no wooden spoon Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #356

agreed about the 12 year old nt steve2470 Oct 2013 #367

spanking is just a bad idea, period steve2470 Oct 2013 #366

In New York, hitting a child with a wooden spoon was child abuse when I was an investigator. In_The_Wind Oct 2013 #372

Let's face it, a child is an easy target for pent up anger, possibly spanning a lifetime. MoonRiver Oct 2013 #379

My mom dragged me to the bathroom and washed out my mouth LittleBlue Oct 2013 #381

Are you saying that the court got it right when they said pnwmom Oct 2013 #387

I don't agree with corporal punishment personally LittleBlue Oct 2013 #392

But that isn't what the court said. Not even close. Incorrectly stating what the court msanthrope Oct 2013 #411

What the court said, according to you: pnwmom Oct 2013 #428

No--that's not even close to the "logical inference." The appellate court isn't saying what is msanthrope Oct 2013 #435

I'm pretty liberal and my wife is uber liberal... Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #455

So much wrong with your post kcr Oct 2013 #457

No.. Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #466

Listen to yourself. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #478

Where'd they did they learn that? Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #482

You hit a child you're a fucking coward. trumad Oct 2013 #522

Spanking and beating a child are not the same thing... Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #531

You hit a child---you're a fucking coward. trumad Oct 2013 #533

Well good... trumad Oct 2013 #521

Where did I ever say smacking around a kid was okay? Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #538

you hit a kid you're a coward. trumad Oct 2013 #541

You know I've been thinking about.. Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #543

I live how folks gussy up the word spanking... trumad Oct 2013 #544

Yeah yeah yeah... Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #545

Again-- trumad Oct 2013 #546

Don't turn a question into a question... Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #547

The question I asked becomes the answer if you answer it honestly trumad Oct 2013 #548

Actually...no ... Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #549

So kcr Oct 2013 #534

Because they're screaming for discipline. Buddyblazon Oct 2013 #539

My stepfather never hit me, but my stepmother DID DissidentVoice Oct 2013 #461

i thought it was the norm MFM008 Oct 2013 #476

I so feel like self-deleting this shit thread. sorry I posted it. cali Oct 2013 #516

I remember I got marks from a spanking from my uncle JonLP24 Oct 2013 #540