General Discussion

intheflow

(30,034 posts)

168. I can differentiate between ideologies and people.

Sat Nov 9, 2013, 07:36 PM

Nov 2013

I don't believe anyone is wholly evil (well, maybe Dick Cheney). People engage in evil acts because of webs of interconnectivity. I would venture to guess a lot of vocal homophobes (for instance) had any gender "nonconformism" beat out of them from childhood, whether that was through physical beatings, psychological shunning, public shaming, or other forms of bullying at home and/or at school. People need to identify with communities, and oftentimes, the only communities they feel accepted in are ones that they've conformed to. I can (to steal a phrase from the religious right) love the sinner and hate the sin. I love that Francis is working to reclaim the Catholic tradition of advocating for the poor even as I hate the Catholic tradition that states homosexuality is a sin. I can love my Republican mother while bitterly hating her political views. Why is that so hard for you to wrap your head around?

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Yes, I like Pope Francis. Sue me [View all] cali Nov 2013 OP

He seems like a good hearted man. I hope and pray he moves the church in a more progressive hrmjustin Nov 2013 #1

T think that this Pope, given some time COLGATE4 Nov 2013 #2

No lawsuit here! :-) Zeke L Brimstone Nov 2013 #3

I like him too. xmas74 Nov 2013 #4

Me too. Lucinda Nov 2013 #5

I agree, I'm impressed with the guy (while disagreeing intensely on several points) petronius Nov 2013 #6

Me too! LeftishBrit Nov 2013 #7

Why would you begin by saying "Call me a hypocrite. Berate me for it. "? Vietnameravet Nov 2013 #8

because that's what some folks were saying to me in another thread cali Nov 2013 #9

So, how's he any different from moderate republicans? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #10

how was thomas merton any different? the berrigan brothers? cali Nov 2013 #11

I don't understand how anyone can like anyone who goes against many things we believe in. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #12

You're for corporate excess and the rich getting richer off the backs of the poor ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #14

Semantics. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #16

Then, I suggest an edit. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #18

no. not merely semantic. at all. cali Nov 2013 #27

Then you'd better learn how to elucidate what you're thinking. This is General Discussion. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #80

This pope does not go against "everything" we believe in. Glassunion Nov 2013 #20

Do you like anti-gay activists? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #21

Do you like those who serve the poor? Glassunion Nov 2013 #32

Answer the question. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #36

No, it is a juvenile question. Glassunion Nov 2013 #47

I wonder what the little boys who get molested by priests while the pope covers it up... Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #48

This pope did that? Glassunion Nov 2013 #49

There are plenty of people who serve the poor and aren't unabashed bigots. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #109

As is your right. I can respect that. Glassunion Nov 2013 #146

Activist? I think you better define "activist." Francis is not an anti-gay activist. demosincebirth Nov 2013 #154

What do you call someone who lead a campaign against same sex marriage in Argentina? n/t Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #160

Apparently, we "know damn well" what this poster is talking about... ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #22

Do you like anti-gay activists? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #24

Do you hate peace activists? Yes, of course you do- following your "thinking" cali Nov 2013 #31

Way to deflect. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #34

bwahahahahaha. so you can do it, but I can't give you a slug of your own medicine cali Nov 2013 #38

Just go ahead and keep liking anti-LGBT people. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #41

juist go ahead and keep hating peace activists, dear cali Nov 2013 #63

Disfigured people ChazII Nov 2013 #149

I don't know where you got I don't like disfigured people. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #153

Speaking as a parent ChazII Nov 2013 #156

There are plenty of peace advocates that aren't unabashed bigots. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #110

This is about you. Not me. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #53

Thank you. I very much 840high Nov 2013 #58

Yes, let's talk about poverty and income disparity, shall we? theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #88

That was not my point. I was replying to a post Glassunion Nov 2013 #92

Want to really fight poverty? Start here. theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #89

The post I was replying to was edited after I replied Glassunion Nov 2013 #93

you're getting so silly, it's pointless to respond substantively n/t cali Nov 2013 #23

I dunno. How do people support 3rd Way, DLC and Blue Dog Democrats... Chan790 Nov 2013 #78

Because he called them out on their hypocrisy. He berated them for being 'obsessed with sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #191

i like him too. spanone Nov 2013 #13

Yeah. He's a peach...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #15

so, what do you think of Merton? the Berrigan Brothers? cali Nov 2013 #25

You do understand it is possible to like some of the actions a person takes... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #112

He seems to be pointing the church in a healthier direction. Orsino Nov 2013 #17

I generally refrain from calling open bigots good people... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #19

Merton? The Berrigan Brothers? cali Nov 2013 #26

Anti-Women, so just as contemptible... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #33

But he takes good pictures!! Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #30

right. because that's what my op is about cali Nov 2013 #35

He's not a homophobe. Deep13 Nov 2013 #82

This is a man who thinks same sex families are an attack on his God... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #83

How do you know what he thinks? Deep13 Nov 2013 #84

I know because he said it, in public, while campaigning against civil rights as Archbishop... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #85

His own words. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #96

Show me his Quote demosincebirth Nov 2013 #155

Which one? Here's a sample... Humanist_Activist Nov 2013 #159

But how do you advance any cause treestar Nov 2013 #127

He is an improvement over the last two DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #28

If more religious leaders and their "flock"... Xolodno Nov 2013 #29

I like him, too. Ilsa Nov 2013 #37

evidently you can't according to quite a few DUers. cali Nov 2013 #39

i was raised catholic so my opinion matters most! ha!!!! but.... spanone Nov 2013 #61

ah, liberal hate. it's just so much better than any other flavor cali Nov 2013 #40

Yeah, liberals "hate" just for the fun of it. Nothing to do with the anti-women, anti-gay crap Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #76

I sometimes wish I had a black-and-white mentality. sir pball Nov 2013 #132

Pope Francis is a sign of the times. randome Nov 2013 #42

Hey I'm sure Francis is great!!!! Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #43

He says I'm going to hell and I can't live my life the way I want to. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #44

He says nothing of the kind, but never mind facts. cali Nov 2013 #45

Uh huh. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #46

You missed the title: bobclark86 Nov 2013 #55

You completely ignored what I had in the excerpt. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #62

The church considers it immoral still bobclark86 Nov 2013 #64

I edited my last post. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #66

You are factually incorrect. Francis and his mouthpieces have gone on and on about their concept Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #69

They say the same thing about me... bobclark86 Nov 2013 #87

This Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #137

He has said that gay families are an attack on God. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #51

I like how cali remains silent on that inconvenient fact. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #56

I did not remain silent on that cali Nov 2013 #65

What did you use as your rationalization, I see nothing here. I left that 'WE love the bigot' thread Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #71

+1 Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #72

So, you think it's wrong to dislike a man who says gay families are an abomination? Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #77

Yea, I'd like to see some indication that he's renounced those views Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #104

You hit the nail on the head. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #113

See post #137. n/t Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #139

See post 137. n/t Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #138

Yet Argentina has gay marriage now treestar Nov 2013 #128

Ummm..pope Francis fought gay marriage in Argentina cap Nov 2013 #140

Still no link treestar Nov 2013 #175

Sure, people are just making that stuff up theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #176

Why so bitter at being asked to support a claim? treestar Nov 2013 #180

More links for you theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #196

As a former Catholic, HockeyMom Nov 2013 #50

If you don't believe the ecclesiastical teachings, then you don't believe them. Deep13 Nov 2013 #81

Every thread on DU about him ends the same way unfortunately. Lobo27 Nov 2013 #52

+1 daleanime Nov 2013 #134

Thank you, Cali, for your thoughts Jack Rabbit Nov 2013 #54

I like him, too! n/t OhioChick Nov 2013 #57

I do too. SchmerzImArsch Nov 2013 #59

He refused to move into the palace -- and make no mistake, it's a palace. Hekate Nov 2013 #60

the church is the oldest criminal/corrupt organization in history madrchsod Nov 2013 #101

I was gonna say ... "has BECOME corrupt" ? Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #147

I don't like religion or popes, but... liberalmuse Nov 2013 #67

Yeah, he's really cool: Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #68

Your screen name should be Johnny One Note. intheflow Nov 2013 #165

So what's stopping you from liking republicans then? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #167

I can differentiate between ideologies and people. intheflow Nov 2013 #168

Because the Pope's anti-gay stance means he's against me and against Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #169

I'm a bisexual DUer. intheflow Nov 2013 #172

Just maybe Whisp Nov 2013 #136

Hopefully, he'll stay around for many decades to appoint younger, more progressive Rozlee Nov 2013 #70

Meh. blkmusclmachine Nov 2013 #73

He is a tremendous breath of fresh air Aerows Nov 2013 #74

They can sue me, too, Cali David Zephyr Nov 2013 #75

hey man, how ya been? post more you old coot! dionysus Nov 2013 #86

Oh yes, dripping with progressive fervor. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #99

Deep13 vs. Cali, A Complaint for Damages in Civil Actions. Deep13 Nov 2013 #79

You're quoting favorably somebody who calls a sizable percentage of women murderers. LeftyMom Nov 2013 #90

no. I'm not quoting him favorably. cali Nov 2013 #106

I wouldn't go so far as t say I like him, but he definitely sucks less, Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #91

I agree, and I'm not catholic. kestrel91316 Nov 2013 #94

Agree hooverville29 Nov 2013 #95

He has said some encouraging things. SalmonChantedEvening Nov 2013 #97

Yes, i can just feel the love here. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #100

Thank you for reminding me why I only post here on Sundays. SalmonChantedEvening Nov 2013 #102

Why, does reality experience a temporal shift on Sundays for you? nt eqfan592 Nov 2013 #108

so glad to see you here salmon. I've missed you. cali Nov 2013 #107

cali, i apologize for the harsh way i spoke to you. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #98

I think most people like him defacto7 Nov 2013 #103

From everything I've seen, he represents all the values that true Christians should have. pacalo Nov 2013 #105

So a person who is bigoted towards gays is a "beautiful human being" that represents the... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #114

Educate yourself... pacalo Nov 2013 #115

How about you take your own advice. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #117

The article I provided is more up to date than yours. pacalo Nov 2013 #118

Given that your article is on a different topic. that doesn't matter. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #119

If "November 2013" isn't recent enough for you, there's nothing more to say. pacalo Nov 2013 #121

I'll repeat, the issue with your article isn't the date but the topic. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #122

I realize that your article is exclusively about quotes he made three years ago. pacalo Nov 2013 #124

The article quoted Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #151

Nearly all very religious people are bigoted towards gays treestar Nov 2013 #129

I agree, treestar. pacalo Nov 2013 #143

Yeah, he's such a beautiful human being: Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #131

Pat Robertson? Not even close. pacalo Nov 2013 #141

Why not? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #142

Have a super Saturday! Until the next thread about the pope... pacalo Nov 2013 #145

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #111

he's a hypocrite bigtree Nov 2013 #116

You don't have to hate anyone to dislike some of their views and policies. ananda Nov 2013 #120

"Hypocrite" is thrown around a lot in this complex workld... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #123

no suit here warrprayer Nov 2013 #125

I agree.. sendero Nov 2013 #126

Me too. Thank you. tblue Nov 2013 #130

Yes, it's all about you and how you feel. last1standing Nov 2013 #133

except that's not what he's doing particularly in comparison with cali Nov 2013 #157

I hate all popes. Roman Catholicism divides and is a tool of the ruling class. nt valerief Nov 2013 #135

If there were a Pope Francis Fan club, I'd be No Vested Interest Nov 2013 #144

I still dislike the pope. JoeyT Nov 2013 #148

Bravo! theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #161

+1 n/t FreeState Nov 2013 #164

Exactly. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #171

Pope-Lite(tm): Zero calories. Zero credibility. n/t dogknob Nov 2013 #150

I think he's like a breath of fresh air leftyladyfrommo Nov 2013 #152

See post #148 theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #162

He's a PINO = Pope in Name Only. Walk away Nov 2013 #158

He basically stands for the same doctrine that his predecessors did. totodeinhere Nov 2013 #163

I like him too katmondoo Nov 2013 #166

I will make note of that. MineralMan Nov 2013 #170

My Attorney has drafted a letter XRubicon Nov 2013 #173

There is this place, Cali toby jo Nov 2013 #174

So the president has lost your respect? Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #195

It's reasonable to ask that religion posts remain in the Trillo Nov 2013 #177

Yes, it IS reasonable theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #179

bottom line - women still have to be out of the vatican by dark . gender apartheid Liberal_in_LA Nov 2013 #178

Would we tolerate this from any other state? theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #181

It isn't really a state. ucrdem Nov 2013 #182

Nice try theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #183

The word "rules" occurs nowhere on the page you linked to. Sorry. nt ucrdem Nov 2013 #184

Here you go. theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #185

No rules on that page, either. I think you might be misinformed. nt ucrdem Nov 2013 #186

I don't know who you think you are fooling. theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #187

I don't imagine you've been there? ucrdem Nov 2013 #188

Maybe you weren't looking theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #189

The link shows that women live in the Vatican, ucrdem Nov 2013 #190

Stop moving the goalposts theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #192

Suit yourself. One more thing I'd like to add: ucrdem Nov 2013 #194

I think he's a great man. NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #193