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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 09:10 PM Nov 2013

BOO!!! - And Fucking BRAVO !!! - A Shit Of A WaPo Editorial, And One HELL Of A Response... [View all]

Social Security proposals are wrongheaded
WaPo Editorial Board
11/17/13

<snip>

PRESIDENT OBAMA and the Republicans never have struck a “grand bargain” on spending and taxes. Nor does it appear likely that the current budget bargaining between Democratic and GOP negotiators in Congress, who met inconclusively again on Wednesday, will produce one. They may fail to achieve even a small bargain. Even so, Mr. Obama faces rising pressure from the left flank of his party to defend entitlement programs tooth and nail. That pressure comes although such programs represent the lion’s share of federal expenditure growth in the coming decades. ?

In recent days, those styling themselves “bold progressives” have been rallying support for a bill sponsored by Sen. Tom Harkin (Iowa) and Rep. Linda Sanchez (Calif.), both Democrats, that would increase Social Security benefits. Supporters tout it as courageous pushback against austerity; in fact, it’s a case study in how not to redefine liberalism for the 21st century.

The Harkin-Sanchez proposal would change Social Security benefit formulas to produce an average increase of $60 per month, plus a more generous annual inflation adjustment, than the program uses now. It also would extend the life of the notional trust fund from which benefits are drawn by 16 years. To pay for this, the bill would subject all wage and salary income to the 12.4 percent Social Security payroll tax, as opposed to only drawing from income up to $113,700 as is presently done. For someone earning $200,000 per year, this would mean a tax increase of more than $4,000 per year. For someone earning $1?million, the tax increase would be $58,700.

It’s a massive transfer of income from upper-income Americans to the retired. A tax increase is not, in itself, objectionable. Revenue is necessary to pay the costs of an aging society, and it should be raised progressively. With respect to Social Security specifically, the percentage of wage and salary earnings subject to the tax has shrunk in recent years, and there’s an argument for correcting that.

Yet even the rich have finite resources...

<snip>

More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/social-security-proposals-are-wrongheaded/2013/11/17/38ebb486-4bde-11e3-ac54-aa84301ced81_story.html

The Very 1st Response:

Dryly 41

11/18/2013 8:04 AM PST

On December 7, 1941 the Japanese Empire attacked U.S. naval and air bases at Pearl Harbor. Thereafter sixteen million young men wore the uniform, and, after 3 years and 8 months secured the unconditional surrender of Italy, Germany, and, Japan, Then, except for 405,399, they came home, went to school of the G.I. Bill or got jobs and entered into delayed marriages. The delayed marriages created the "demographic bubble" known as the Baby Boom generation and the children of WW II vets began to turn 65 in 2011.

In 1946 the Gross Federal Debt amounted to 121.7% of GDP. the Truman administration reduced it to 71.4% of GDP; Eisenhower to 55.2%; Kennedy/Johnson to 38.6%; Nixon/Ford to 35.8%; and, Carter to 32.5%.

Then came Ronald Reagan with massive "supply side" tax cuts primarily for the wealthy and budget deficits in each of eight years increasing the Gross Federal Debt from 32.5% to 53.1% of GDP. Bush I had four more years of budget deficits increasing the debt to 66.1%.

Clinton raised taxes, had 4% unemployment, balanced budgets and reduced the debt to 56.4%.

Bush II instituted two rounds of "supply side" tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, had eight more years of deficits and increased the Gross Federal Debt from 56.4% of GDP to 85.1% with a crippled economy.

In 1983 Reagan signed a regressive FICA payroll increase so as to create a surplus in the Social Security Trust Fund which has a $2.6 trillion dollar reserve as of December 2012.

Social Security did not contribute one thin dime to the massive Federal Debt.

This massive Federal Debt was caused by borrowing all these trillions to fund "supply side" tax cuts for the wealthiest citizens most able to pay taxes.

The massive Federal Debt was not for any great national purpose such as the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WW I, or, WW II. It was for "supply side" tax cuts for the wealthy.

Start with eliminating "supply side" economics and return to traditional Republican tax and fiscal policy.

Do this first.







104 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
excellent gopiscrap Nov 2013 #1
Rec'd and Bookmarked! n/t SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2013 #70
Proud to kick and rec such a fine OP! Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2013 #2
LOL, which DUer was that? winter is coming Nov 2013 #3
LOL !!! - I'd LOVE To Claim It Was Me... But Alas.. No... WillyT Nov 2013 #5
yes Bravo on bringing out the truth Dryly 41 lunasun Nov 2013 #4
That is one incredible rebuttal! Curmudgeoness Nov 2013 #6
Give that person a seat at the budget negotiations table Samantha Nov 2013 #7
Dryly 41 is smarter than... Mike Nelson Nov 2013 #8
Recommend! KoKo Nov 2013 #9
OMG,,,that was a great and complete answer. zeemike Nov 2013 #10
That would be a return to traditional DEMOCRATIC tax and fiscal policy. WowSeriously Nov 2013 #11
Perhaps it was only a temporary brain fart? IrishAyes Nov 2013 #12
That struck me odd too. Maybe the guy's not a typical Tea-publicon. ffr Nov 2013 #14
Perhaps the author is attempting to remind Repubs of the fiscal responsibility progressoid Nov 2013 #20
^ This ^ n/t Adsos Letter Nov 2013 #35
Perhaps. But they inherited Democratic tax policy. They don't deserve credit. WowSeriously Nov 2013 #45
That's the way I took it. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #59
This is an excellent example of how FAR to the Conservative RIGHT... bvar22 Nov 2013 #81
Eisenhower was far too left wing GeoWilliam750 Nov 2013 #91
Rachel Maddow agrees. bvar22 Nov 2013 #96
Love it when other people fight back with facts ffr Nov 2013 #13
It's great to see as the first reply Oilwellian Nov 2013 #15
bookmarked grasswire Nov 2013 #16
Bounce... WillyT Nov 2013 #18
I'm Still In Awe From... WillyT Nov 2013 #17
We promise to spend it all. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #62
Great response! jtuck004 Nov 2013 #19
This chart shows whose interests Obama promotes. Divernan Nov 2013 #47
That chart shows that simply taxing the rich wont fix the problem; there isnt enough money. 7962 Nov 2013 #56
"That is something that nobody says." Enthusiast Nov 2013 #64
I guess i dont watch the right channels then. But regardless of who says it its still the truth 7962 Nov 2013 #76
What you say is untrue. They are also right wing talking points. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #93
Where I've been is here; for a few years. 7962 Nov 2013 #102
That is something that nobody says, because it's utterly wrong. jeff47 Nov 2013 #75
Certainly it would bring in more revenue. But NOT ENOUGH. 7962 Nov 2013 #79
Golly, I'm so surprised you failed to show any math in your response. jeff47 Nov 2013 #83
Thank you! Springslips Nov 2013 #99
I appreciate your detailed response. (And I'm serious) 7962 Nov 2013 #100
Again, you still haven't backed up your position with any math. jeff47 Nov 2013 #103
Ok, just a few differences. 7962 Nov 2013 #104
That's because most people would not be able to eat or sleep under a roof at night if they JDPriestly Nov 2013 #85
Kicking again. riqster Nov 2013 #21
I don't know who Dryly41 is, but I wouldn't change a single word of his rebuttal Warpy Nov 2013 #22
Great information - here's a direct link kristopher Nov 2013 #23
So the Harkin-Sanchez proposal would dgauss Nov 2013 #24
+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #25
btw, WaPo -- isn't it "Loretta" Sanchez, not "Linda"? nt grasswire Nov 2013 #26
Here... WillyT Nov 2013 #27
ah! grasswire Nov 2013 #29
Excellent reply, I would only change one thing. A Simple Game Nov 2013 #28
Hear, Hear! mimi85 Nov 2013 #32
Indeed. And THAT is the massive transfer of wealth that may actually occur. stillwaiting Nov 2013 #57
Yessss...Oh so true. Only a bunch of liberal Socialist types keep bringing this up. maddiemom Nov 2013 #90
yes, even the rich have finite resources, they are just close to infinite resources and closing in, hollysmom Nov 2013 #30
Bravo! nt silvershadow Nov 2013 #31
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #33
Anytime... Uncle Joe, Anytime... WillyT Nov 2013 #98
K & R. dchill Nov 2013 #34
Excellent! mckara Nov 2013 #36
Yes. Yes. Yes. n/t countmyvote4real Nov 2013 #37
Social Security Proposal DENIERS are Wrongheaded! ReRe Nov 2013 #38
K&R abelenkpe Nov 2013 #39
What a great post! n/t UtahLib Nov 2013 #40
The numbers don't add up Flagrante Nov 2013 #41
divide by half moxybug Nov 2013 #63
welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #66
k&r thanks for posting. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #42
who is that responder? BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #43
Why should the 90%+ of Americans who make under $113,000 pay FICA taxes on 100% of their incomes stopbush Nov 2013 #44
whatta great response! :) bravo! Divine Discontent Nov 2013 #46
K&R emsimon33 Nov 2013 #48
K & R malaise Nov 2013 #49
Hear, hear! k&r n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #50
Kick because I want to show this to someone later Fumesucker Nov 2013 #51
K&R. myrna minx Nov 2013 #52
The bottom line - the general fund owes Social Security $3 trillion. The rich have to pay that back. reformist2 Nov 2013 #53
'Emergency' supplementals were used to keep the Iraq and Afghanistan adventures 'going'. unhappycamper Nov 2013 #54
+++ A lot of those comments are worth reading. DirkGently Nov 2013 #55
(thread worth DAYS of kicks!) . . .. n/t annabanana Nov 2013 #58
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #60
. . . Triana Nov 2013 #61
I can't friggin believe they ProSense Nov 2013 #65
Thanks for the addition, just one of many challenges to outright lies being told! freshwest Nov 2013 #87
I'm saving Dryly 41's response. It is an excellent response to the Fix the Debt hucksters. Larkspur Nov 2013 #67
The Source documenting the Numbers ... 66 dmhlt Nov 2013 #68
"pressure from the left flank of his party" Shame on all the others who call themselves Democrats! L0oniX Nov 2013 #69
In just that poll, 79% think that the Social Security cap should be eliminated. Aerows Nov 2013 #71
Raise-the-CAP? bvar22 Nov 2013 #82
What a TERRIFIC reply!!!! Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #72
Yes, Indeed!...Go On With Your Bad Self, Dryly 41 whathehell Nov 2013 #73
Rec'd & bookmarked NastyRiffraff Nov 2013 #74
oooooooooooooooo Burf-_- Nov 2013 #77
You can almost hear the "WHOOSH!!!!".... Wounded Bear Nov 2013 #78
Excellent - bookmarked. klook Nov 2013 #80
Solve a lot of $$ problems RobertEarl Nov 2013 #84
Perfect, thorough, zinging reply! countryjake Nov 2013 #86
K&R stage left Nov 2013 #88
Truly excellent. That's a "saver!" JEFF9K Nov 2013 #89
Is there a reason GeoWilliam750 Nov 2013 #92
K and fucking R. Perfect. cliffordu Nov 2013 #94
Well done, can't argue the truth. WaPo just got served humble pie, a mighty slab of truth!!! K & R mother earth Nov 2013 #95
Awesome! Springslips Nov 2013 #97
Absolutely AWESOME .... MindMover Nov 2013 #101
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