General Discussion

Tumbulu

(6,268 posts)

289. I am describing what the scientific discipline requires of us

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 03:04 PM

Dec 2013

but a whole big group on DU who claim to be scientists and or skeptics (as though this is some technical term) refuse to allow themselves to observe anything whose proposed mechanism of activity makes little or no intellectual sense to them. So, they simply refuse to acknowledge it, or try to understand how or why it could be.

Very limited and fundamentalist in my book, Exactly what they make fun of all the time.

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Naturopaths and the creep of pseudo-science [View all] SidDithers Dec 2013 OP

k&r! nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #1

k&r idwiyo Dec 2013 #2

Yup, turf wars still. TM99 Dec 2013 #3

thank you. I'll add that in Massachusetts, only licensed veterinarians magical thyme Dec 2013 #11

There is no such word as allopathic MattBaggins Dec 2013 #133

Webster's disagrees with you riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #153

It was a made up term MattBaggins Dec 2013 #158

Lol! riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #167

LoL all you wantthere is no such thing as allopathy MattBaggins Dec 2013 #214

And where do "real" words H2O Man Dec 2013 #242

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #333

thank you so much for sharing your story. niyad Dec 2013 #12

"When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." IdaBriggs Dec 2013 #39

There is no such word as allopathic MattBaggins Dec 2013 #131

From dictionary.com pnwmom Dec 2013 #159

It's a type of beer?? India Pale Ale?? madinmaryland Dec 2013 #203

That's your reasoned argument? TM99 Dec 2013 #245

i live in arizona and have been DesertFlower Dec 2013 #210

US hospitals don't follow evidence based-practices for birthing mothers, either. intersectionality Dec 2013 #4

US birth mortality also result of bad nutrition & lack of pre-natal medical care. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #10

Commercial/corporate based health care is killing people just as fast, loudsue Dec 2013 #5

Science is not based on "nature", it's based on a method. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #23

Last I checked, Nature does a pretty good job, too. loudsue Dec 2013 #63

While I see your point, it seems to be too ambiguous an application cleanhippie Dec 2013 #72

Nature does a pretty good job at what? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #87

Curing, healing. Often better than chemicals and surgery. reformist2 Dec 2013 #183

That makes no sense, you do realize that life itself is just chemistry... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #185

Um, not really. Most drugs are synthesized in labs to block biological processes & destroy things. reformist2 Dec 2013 #188

Is there evidence of your first assertion? In addition, define "naturopathyl", also... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #199

Unless you have evidence to support your assertion, it's complete nonsense. nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #200

Any industry that asks to be "self regulated" should get twice the regulations phantom power Dec 2013 #6

Exactly what the companies who produce gmo's do, they self regulate.... Tumbulu Dec 2013 #128

So how did that "real" science of thalidomide and premarin work out? KittyWampus Dec 2013 #7

The science behind it was inadequate, and the drug approval procedures were tightened bhikkhu Dec 2013 #19

Thank you phil89 Dec 2013 #20

More to the point with thalidomide, SheilaT Dec 2013 #27

You forgot the H-bomb, and fire... and lawn darts cthulu2016 Dec 2013 #30

Thalidomide never was approved by the FDA. So the science worked. nt msanthrope Dec 2013 #56

Well, the use of thalidomide was not approved in the US. MineralMan Dec 2013 #319

YEP. politichew Dec 2013 #8

Yup. N.D. == Not a Doctor longship Dec 2013 #9

I don't like 'woo'... TM99 Dec 2013 #14

Naturopathy IS error, which is why it deserves the "woo" label. nt longship Dec 2013 #16

Again with the bullshit. TM99 Dec 2013 #17

Fallacious argument Scootaloo Dec 2013 #21

Not fallacious in the least. TM99 Dec 2013 #22

That website is a load of tosh MattBaggins Dec 2013 #138

Just because a website you don't respect quotes research Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #205

The figures in that report for iatrogenic deaths are hogwash MattBaggins Dec 2013 #221

It would be a lot more productive for you to actually take the time Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #229

No those numbers have been posted on DU multiple times MattBaggins Dec 2013 #231

Not good enough. Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #233

I did enough for you MattBaggins Dec 2013 #236

Taking just one number - Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #241

Medical error accounts for the 3rd highest number of deaths in the US? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #44

So do you believe TM99 Dec 2013 #46

You don't back up your assertions with links. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #70

Here's a link Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #207

I provided links TM99 Dec 2013 #247

No one cares about your distractions MattBaggins Dec 2013 #137

No one cares about your assholish opinions. TM99 Dec 2013 #246

Accupuncture has exactly zero LEGITIMATE reasearch MattBaggins Dec 2013 #275

Your willful ignorance is as bad as TM99 Dec 2013 #276

NCAM is a joke MattBaggins Dec 2013 #292

Yes, exactly like a Fundamentalist Christian. TM99 Dec 2013 #307

I believe the woosters are like the fundies MattBaggins Dec 2013 #309

The only one full of crap TM99 Dec 2013 #311

lol MattBaggins Dec 2013 #312

Plus one. zappaman Dec 2013 #313

You realize that "3rd highest number of deaths" number has been completely debunked, right? eqfan592 Dec 2013 #201

It would seem that you are saying that naturopathy is evidence-based medicine. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #26

Evidence INFORMED Medicine is not always the answer TM99 Dec 2013 #36

While there are problems with the practical application of EBM cleanhippie Dec 2013 #38

Again, TM99 Dec 2013 #40

"Is it because it will challenge financial monopolies?" Rex Dec 2013 #52

Why the fuck are you lumping in things that actually work(nutrition and lifestyle management)... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #90

No shit etherealtruth Dec 2013 #177

Pretty much, even more aggravating when they use terms they don't know the meaning of... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #187

Oh believe me I have had the same conversation etherealtruth Dec 2013 #219

Oh for pity sake, TM99 Dec 2013 #243

The issue is one of credibility, homeopathy doesn't work, not in the sense... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #251

They have not been studied empirically MattBaggins Dec 2013 #139

So nutrition and lifestyle management have not been studied empirically? TM99 Dec 2013 #244

I agree Locrian Dec 2013 #33

Wow, never seen a post that lacked...pretty much all knowledge of science or how it operates. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #91

You must've missed temporary311 Dec 2013 #95

Oh damn, I remember those, people can just be nuts. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #96

a dogmatist Locrian Dec 2013 #112

Science is a process designed to reduce and try to eliminate the things you criticize it for.... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #117

Science does deal with complexities of the real world MattBaggins Dec 2013 #140

Baloney MattBaggins Dec 2013 #135

I have the equine equivalent of tri-athalon athletes and we use all that "woo" riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #13

This group ignores any evidence that they cannot understand Tumbulu Dec 2013 #132

What complete bullshit. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #204

An unwillingness to observe Tumbulu Dec 2013 #270

Given that you are describing almost exactly what science does.... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #280

I am describing what the scientific discipline requires of us Tumbulu Dec 2013 #289

Do you have an example? eqfan592 Dec 2013 #293

Just look at how the squad jumps all over anyone Tumbulu Dec 2013 #314

You're talking about people relaying anecdotes, and anecdotes are not data. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #315

No, we are not talking about anecdotes here Tumbulu Dec 2013 #317

I have to admit I'm flabbergasted at the knee-jerk reactions here riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #322

If homeopathy works, its Nobel Prize winning, it would literally upend the entire scientific world.. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #332

Me too Tumbulu Dec 2013 #358

You need new vets MattBaggins Dec 2013 #141

See, proof right here Tumbulu Dec 2013 #269

Naturopath doctors are just like chiropractors: both are deeply steeped in woo. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #15

They're both faith-based healers seattledo Dec 2013 #31

Oh geez. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #43

That's the type of chiro Dorian Gray Dec 2013 #273

chiropractic is not "woo" Scout Dec 2013 #118

Really, so vitalism is a real thing? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #120

don't know what you're talking about "vitalism"... Scout Dec 2013 #123

Chiropractic is based on the unproven hypothesis of "vitalism" from the 19th century.... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #126

"very expensive physical therapists for the spine, but less trained and more dangerous" Scout Dec 2013 #285

Chiropractic is a pseudo-science. The argument that "adjustment" can prevent disease... Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #127

See, unwilling to observe evidence Tumbulu Dec 2013 #360

What evidence? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #366

sorry, you do not seem to be reading the posts here. Tumbulu Dec 2013 #371

Testimonials don't mean anything without it being repeatable and testable... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #373

Oh get a grip, you are being particularly silly nt Tumbulu Dec 2013 #376

do x-rays count? Scout Dec 2013 #382

Has nothing to do with your word, it has to do with it being repeated and being... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #389

Also, I just wanted to point out that manipulation of the spine, by ANYONE... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #395

Ha. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #122

brilliant, well documented response! Scout Dec 2013 #124

Other posters here in this very thread have pointed that out. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #142

how are taking and reading x-rays, woo? Scout Dec 2013 #284

With regard to naturopathic doctors, the National Institutes of Health, pnwmom Dec 2013 #254

Good for them. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #255

Considering how much of 'scientific' medicine is poison, I say give the naturopaths a chance. reformist2 Dec 2013 #18

Considering how much scientific and evidence based medicine cures intaglio Dec 2013 #73

As far as I'm concerned, most modern medicine is still quackery. reformist2 Dec 2013 #181

Totally. Heart transplants, prosthetics, total quackery. TransitJohn Dec 2013 #184

Those are extreme cases, not by any means the end result of most doctor visits. reformist2 Dec 2013 #191

Simplistic view? I took your simplistic statement at face value. TransitJohn Dec 2013 #209

Ahh, the good old days. When smallpox killed millions, polio killed hundreds of thousands... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #189

Clearly an opinion grounded entirely in reality. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #206

Have you looked up what some herbal supplements do to the human body? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #94

How about if we give the crazy homeless guy a chance? MattBaggins Dec 2013 #144

You do know that supplements you buy at health stores is very expensive pee, right? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #145

Just about everything is "poison" if enough of it is consumed. That's not a good argument. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #282

+1... SidDithers Dec 2013 #283

There is a difference . . FairWinds Dec 2013 #24

Naturopathy is science, and evidence based, medicine riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #25

About those non-pharmaceutical remedies.... cleanhippie Dec 2013 #28

and why would that be? 2naSalit Dec 2013 #98

There ARE studies. They just showed that they didnt work as advertised. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #160

As with many approved drugs on in the market. nt kelliekat44 Dec 2013 #308

Is there a point you were trying to make? cleanhippie Dec 2013 #381

Naturopathic doctors are taught, and promote homeopathy... SidDithers Dec 2013 #32

At least homeopathic medicines do no harm FarCenter Dec 2013 #47

Yup. The only benefit of homeopathic "medicine" is that it won't directly kill you... SidDithers Dec 2013 #49

Actually it depends, some of the places that make "homeopathic pills"... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #93

There was also the Zicam case a few years ago... SidDithers Dec 2013 #107

Isn't that the one that causes anosmia? Losing your sense of smell... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #108

Yup, that was the one... SidDithers Dec 2013 #111

I, and many, lost the sense of smell from Flonase u4ic Dec 2013 #129

Its a rare side affect, at least you were informed of it before hand... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #134

No I wasn't informed u4ic Dec 2013 #136

It appears it is rare(about .3%), and indeed, Flonase is used to restore sense of smell for some... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #143

So do some veterinary schools. Are they quacks too? riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #100

Yeah, linaments and herbal teas aren't homeopathy...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #101

And homeopathy as well as other "alternative" medicines. nt riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #165

I'm starting to think you really don't know what homeopathy is... SidDithers Dec 2013 #195

Gosh thanks! 25+ years of using arnica and other homeopathic remedies riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #260

What's the dilution on the arnica you use?... SidDithers Dec 2013 #261

Don't know at the moment. I'm about to go to bed riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #265

I'm sure they mean well. eShirl Dec 2013 #106

As repeated before, the horses can't lie. It either works or not. riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #169

Are they quacks? You betcha MattBaggins Dec 2013 #146

Sorry but the horses can't lie. They either get restored functionality or not from the remedies riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #166

Of course they are MattBaggins Dec 2013 #218

Either the animal is restored to functionality or it isn't. riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #259

Do you know what homeopathic remedies actually are? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #175

Yes. Arnica and other homeopathic remedies are regularly used riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #178

You seem to be confusing herbalism with homeopathy... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #180

Arnica (for example) has always been a homeopathic remedy riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #262

Any Arnica homeopathic preparations contain none of the plant in them... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #271

Animals cannot manufacture a placebo effect. riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #281

Don't move the goalposts, and don't lump in other, unrelated treatments with homeopathy... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #291

I haven't moved the goalposts. Did you just gloss over my comment about using arnica gel? riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #316

I have a question for you, HOW does the arnica gel work? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #318

I don't know and don't care. I (and my vets) just know it works riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #320

Well you can be sure that 1M Homeopathic Arnica won't be detected during testing... SidDithers Dec 2013 #321

Arnica is not a banned substance in competition nt riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #323

Wouldn't matter... SidDithers Dec 2013 #324

Just went out to the barn to check - its Arnica Montana riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #325

I asked about the dilution... SidDithers Dec 2013 #327

It's interesting, that there's no placebo effect with animals. BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #329

I don't know why you are celebrating, this poster is being dishonest at the very least... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #331

I like hearing positive testimonials about the success of using homeopathy. BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #335

That poster isn't using homeopathy, but a plant based gel that has an anti-inflammatory affect... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #337

Um, okay BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #338

Its about honestly, I would think it matters, this isn't a matter of opinion... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #340

Really, get a grip Tumbulu Dec 2013 #361

Arnica ISN'T PRESENT in homeopathic preparations... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #365

agains you scream out your fundamentalism Tumbulu Dec 2013 #370

Describe to me how it can be present in a solution at 30C, or 1 part per 10^60 of water... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #372

It does not matter Tumbulu Dec 2013 #375

Don't you want to know how it works, so you can better understand it? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #379

Not knowing how it works does not stop me from Tumbulu Dec 2013 #401

So basically, to you, confirmation bias is enough. See, I would want to know. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #403

Honestly, you cannot observe something Tumbulu Dec 2013 #416

Is it arnica or a placebo(homeopathic "preparation", whatever), there is a difference... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #421

Look what I found, a mechanism for Arnica Montana to work on horses! Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #336

The tablets say 30c.The gel has no indication. I've already said it works riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #341

So the pill contains nothing in it, the gel most likely does, and you claim I am ignorant... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #342

Animals can't make up a placebo effect nt riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #346

You keep repeating this, and while its true, its also irrelevent... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #347

Prayer? (I'm an atheist). Some "woo"vibe in my barn riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #350

Willow bark contain Salicin, which metabolizes into salycyclic acid in the body... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #351

Just did the math, the Arnica, in order to be diluted to 30C, had to be dissolved in a body of... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #353

Gosh then I'll have to SOMEHOW communicate to these horses they've been duped riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #352

I don't see how you failing Middle School Chemistry is amusing. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #354

So now it is down to personal insults Tumbulu Dec 2013 #362

As of right now, no one in this thread has described a way for homeopathy to work... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #364

No, you have decided that it is magic Tumbulu Dec 2013 #369

LOL BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #357

It's amusing how annoyed they become BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #343

Do you really think water contains a memory of things dissolved in it in the past? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #345

Perfect analogy... SidDithers Dec 2013 #356

it has nothing to do with belief Tumbulu Dec 2013 #363

Yup. The chiropractor vet is from Cornell riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #348

Thanks for your posts BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #349

30C means there's no arnica in the tablets... SidDithers Dec 2013 #355

"I don't know and don't care." This sums it up, faith based treatments, you just... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #330

I'm beginning to think they're serious... SidDithers Dec 2013 #263

Good grief, have you never been to a horse barn Tumbulu Dec 2013 #374

Organic /= homeopathic... SidDithers Dec 2013 #380

Are you trying to be funny? Tumbulu Dec 2013 #383

Ridiculous... SidDithers Dec 2013 #385

If you think posting ridiculous comments Tumbulu Dec 2013 #391

I asked that homeopathy be tested clinically, you labeled that ridiculous.... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #393

Yes, you are clearly a fundamentalist Tumbulu Dec 2013 #419

Water doesn't have memory... SidDithers Dec 2013 #394

Deal with the fact that your provincial Tumbulu Dec 2013 #418

I have a question, you have a million gallon tank of water, at homeopathic dilutions... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #402

Who cares, if it helps, SO WHAT? nt Tumbulu Dec 2013 #417

You have yet to prove it works. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #420

See, here you are Tumbulu Dec 2013 #359

Cost and Outcomes really should be considered here NoOneMan Dec 2013 #29

Placebo should never be part of a patient treatment plan... SidDithers Dec 2013 #35

Many pharmaceuticals and even some surgeries work no better than placebos NoOneMan Dec 2013 #37

Evidence? nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #216

Watch this NoOneMan Dec 2013 #226

Sorry, can't watch a video right now. got a link to the study/studies that support your assertion?nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #230

Yes NoOneMan Dec 2013 #238

I've been told that patients who insisted on getting a shot were given saline solution FarCenter Dec 2013 #51

Are you sure about that? Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2013 #76

From a recent podcast I heard on the subject, involving a doctor... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #215

"knowing full well that the treatment will have no real effect" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #239

I have a bigfoot "scarecrow" in my back yard. zappaman Dec 2013 #34

Sorry to disappoint you, but I've been killing and selling bigfoot pelts. Rex Dec 2013 #41

I have trained my pugs to keep away elephants hueymahl Dec 2013 #79

Just pugs? zappaman Dec 2013 #84

lol, nice one. Vattel Dec 2013 #186

The Woo is no worse than the drugs pedaled on TV that result in a class action lawsuit. Rex Dec 2013 #42

Yes! Stop naturopaths from giving out Thalidomide, Lariam, Oxycontin, Vicodin, ..... WinkyDink Dec 2013 #45

crazy canucks! Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #48

Your concern is duly noted. And several decades out-dated. pnwmom Dec 2013 #50

Yes, thank you! TM99 Dec 2013 #53

But it is 'woo' and you should be scared! Rex Dec 2013 #54

I'll bite... zappaman Dec 2013 #88

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt MattBaggins Dec 2013 #148

Ahhhhhh thanks for the info! n/t zappaman Dec 2013 #170

What he said. Rex Dec 2013 #297

Yep, tried and true method for selling snake oil! Rex Dec 2013 #298

Bastyr offers more than a dozen courses in Homeopathy... SidDithers Dec 2013 #55

You probably don't believe in M.D. allergists, either, pnwmom Dec 2013 #61

Which is almost, but not quite, completely different from Homeopathy... SidDithers Dec 2013 #66

No, thanks. Once you make up your mind on something, pnwmom Dec 2013 #75

You have no evidence... none MattBaggins Dec 2013 #149

There are conflicting studies, as there are for many medical treatments. pnwmom Dec 2013 #156

In EVERY thread that EVER comes up on this topic, you ALWAYS claim the same thing. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #161

I did, repeatedly, right in this thread. pnwmom Dec 2013 #163

That appears to be an in-progress study. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #164

I don't know what would be acceptable to you, pnwmom Dec 2013 #171

That is one study for one specific reason. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #278

Here is an example of a faculty member with several completed studies pnwmom Dec 2013 #286

Great. Where are the actual studies with the results? cleanhippie Dec 2013 #290

The NIH solicits peer reviews before they offer grants. pnwmom Dec 2013 #296

So you cannot produce a single peer-reviewed study showing the efficacy of a naturopathic remedy cleanhippie Dec 2013 #300

Here you go: pnwmom Dec 2013 #301

While interesting, that's hardly conclusive. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #303

No, I'm not. I'm saying that you have to be careful about pnwmom Dec 2013 #305

homeopathic products KT2000 Dec 2013 #97

molecules, you mean? eShirl Dec 2013 #110

You just posted complete rubbish MattBaggins Dec 2013 #150

100% hogwash. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #162

You failed High School Science classes, didn't you? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #344

Yeah, but they have the gov't seal of approval... polichick Dec 2013 #71

I don't think your analogy holds up. Captain Stern Dec 2013 #397

Bastyr is a joke MattBaggins Dec 2013 #147

The researchers at University of Washington, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, pnwmom Dec 2013 #157

+1 BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #168

'Scarce health-care dollars should be spent on science-based medicine, not the collection of woo Faux pas Dec 2013 #57

No, I posted in the thread that anything from Collective Evolution is shite... SidDithers Dec 2013 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author SidDithers Dec 2013 #59

Yes, conveniently ignoring the fact that the actual work came out of Harvard. pnwmom Dec 2013 #62

... Faux pas Dec 2013 #64

Nothing about Collective Evolution?... SidDithers Dec 2013 #65

From Orac last year: The problem with homeopathy, according to naturopaths SidDithers Dec 2013 #60

God-forbid people stop shoveling cash to big pharma!! polichick Dec 2013 #67

Sure. Shovel it to the muti-billion dollar, unregulated supplement industry instead!...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #68

No thanks. I buy my herbs direct from the growers. polichick Dec 2013 #69

Nice, useless, flame-bait thread. Typical of your product. n/t ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #74

Maybe he's a big pharma rep. polichick Dec 2013 #77

... SidDithers Dec 2013 #78

You sure are threatened by alternative health choices. polichick Dec 2013 #82

No, not at all... SidDithers Dec 2013 #85

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #86

So it's the 'competition' you don't like. CanSocDem Dec 2013 #105

It's absolutely about competition for public funds... SidDithers Dec 2013 #109

You don't 'compete' for public funds... CanSocDem Dec 2013 #115

Directions in public health are not determined by popular vote... SidDithers Dec 2013 #116

Public funds go where, now...??? CanSocDem Dec 2013 #130

Apparently the earlier attempt to start a flame war was met with little interest. n/t ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #89

Just another flame-bait thread, brought to you by the same folks loudsue Dec 2013 #80

Third possibilty MattBaggins Dec 2013 #151

+1 Matariki Dec 2013 #249

Fuck woo. sagat Dec 2013 #81

+1... SidDithers Dec 2013 #83

Yep. greytdemocrat Dec 2013 #211

+1 idwiyo Dec 2013 #102

vaht? vas you shaying shumthing, about woo peddling fools, to meee? dionysus Dec 2013 #92

Heheh... SidDithers Dec 2013 #99

When I get really sick PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #103

A friend of mine PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #104

UTIs can be scary... SidDithers Dec 2013 #113

Gee, when I've had UTI's BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #114

I'm guessing PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #119

You didn't mention that, did you? BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #154

"To each his own." See, this is why ancedotal evidence is useless... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #121

I didn't say cranberry juice BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #155

"and the cranberry took care of it." You have no evidence for this. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #172

My evidence is that my UTI's went away BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #173

"YMMV" Again, thinking anecdotes equals data. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #174

To each his own BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #176

It actually does. Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #222

OK, sorry, perhaps I should say that one data point isn't enough to draw conclusions from... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #232

On that we agree. n/t Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #234

You didn't have an infection, then REP Dec 2013 #224

You mean we're not supposed to go on Web MD and self-diagnose? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #228

I do a little bit of self-diagnosis... REP Dec 2013 #268

Thank you! n/t PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #279

Well, good for you! BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #288

bladder infection, 4 weeks of antibiotics did not clear it up Scout Dec 2013 #295

Did they do a culture? REP Dec 2013 #302

i honestly do not remember if they did a culture Scout Dec 2013 #304

... lol ... Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #125

My brother is an MD board-certified in Occupational Medicine Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #152

It seems like self-regulation doesn't work in any industry or profession. Cleita Dec 2013 #179

So what about marijuana? A natural medicine? panader0 Dec 2013 #182

You know what they call natural medicines... SidDithers Dec 2013 #197

Ok. So pot is therefore medicine by tautology that grows naturally. Sounds like natural medicine NoOneMan Dec 2013 #240

This thread is very interesting and informative Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #190

Actually, I'm battling ignorance in general, for example, you found herbs... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #194

Seems to me you are nit-picking Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #198

Antibiotics aren't designed to relieve symptoms, sorry if I was unclear... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #202

Sounds like you are a doctor. Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #212

I'm not a doctor, nor do I pretend to be one, more like a concerned citizen... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #217

OK Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #227

Not all bronchitis Dorian Gray Dec 2013 #274

Black coffee is a good bronchodilator REP Dec 2013 #310

Meh. My Naturopath IS a Medical Doctor Matariki Dec 2013 #193

Really now? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #223

You are laughably uninformed Matariki Dec 2013 #248

Uninformed? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #250

Yes you are. Matariki Dec 2013 #252

You cannot have Naturopathy without homeopathy. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #253

You left out this part: "but not every naturopathic physician will use it pnwmom Dec 2013 #256

"that have not been scientifically shown to work" Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #264

Spinal fusion for chronic lower back pain has not been proven effective, pnwmom Dec 2013 #266

The first link Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #267

Bacteria are only getting resistant to ANTIBIOTICS because of the overuse of pnwmom Dec 2013 #272

"Tossing about the term 'woo' is intellectually lazy." kentauros Dec 2013 #258

and they are not only lazy, but very scared Tumbulu Dec 2013 #368

I've known for many years kentauros Dec 2013 #378

So sadly true Tumbulu Dec 2013 #384

And I have enjoyed what you've written, too. kentauros Dec 2013 #423

Thanks Tumbulu Dec 2013 #424

What do you think of osteopathy? BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #196

Looks like yet another type of BS peddled on a false belief related to... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #208

DO's DesertFlower Dec 2013 #220

So they are legitimate until you get to OMM or OMT... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #225

when i had spinal manipulation it was for DesertFlower Dec 2013 #235

I went for my lower back BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #237

an osteopath is a DO. seems the younger DesertFlower Dec 2013 #213

kick Liberal_in_LA Dec 2013 #257

I dunno.. sendero Dec 2013 #277

This is the net result of the insurance industry acting as a wedge between people and medicine. It Erose999 Dec 2013 #287

This is a Canadian story (nt) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #294

This kind of quackery is a problem here too, in case my post hadn't made it clear to you. Erose999 Dec 2013 #299

Damn, look at the woo in this thread. *shaking my head* n/t X_Digger Dec 2013 #306

Shaking your head at people seeking affection? Whatever for? kentauros Dec 2013 #377

Big Pharma is based on pseudo scientific study, it's a scam perpetuated & patently confirmed! HAH! mother earth Dec 2013 #326

I have a question, why the fuck should we trust the big alternative "medicine" industry? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #334

Naturopathy is based on vitamin therapy, minerals and such, it is not homeopathy. And guess what, mother earth Dec 2013 #386

Reiki is a spiritual practice, akin to faith healing, and I would classify it as "mostly harmless".. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #390

No, HA, these things have benefits, maybe doesn't work for all people, just like medicines and mother earth Dec 2013 #407

Have those hospitals that embraced Reiki gotten rid of the oncology departments? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #400

Alternatives are used in conjunction with traditional modes. Don't be silly. No one is saying mother earth Dec 2013 #408

Naturopathic practitioners in the US can be divided into three categories: mother earth Dec 2013 #387

How the fuck have I been schooled? I'm called the close minded one for asking that things be tested. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #392

I don't know who you are arguing with, I never said FAITH had ANYTHING to do with the methods Ive mother earth Dec 2013 #410

Reiki is faith healing from what I read, so is most other BS "energy" healing shit. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #413

Energy medicine is a new frontier. Reiki really is used in hospitals, in fact, many practictioners mother earth Dec 2013 #415

One more thing, holistic medicine, alternative practitioners are SO sought after that people drive mother earth Dec 2013 #388

People also drive hundreds of miles to see psychics, I don't know why that is used as an argument. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #396

Tell the police departments that use them to find missing children and adults. Let's not go there mother earth Dec 2013 #409

Hey, you want to talk about psychics, why not talk about Sylvia Brown... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #412

It was widely known she was a charlatan, I think Sylvia was entertainment. I told you there mother earth Dec 2013 #414

Wow, just wow, an actor who is paid to peddle bullshit on TV... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #422

I never said I liked it so much, I watched it one or twice, and when I watched it the psychics used mother earth Dec 2013 #425

Met a psychic, I actually was one, for fun, if you can call it that. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #426

You really like to go off topic and take it to new levels, "you people" are so transparent. mother earth Dec 2013 #428

Indeed BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #398

"allopathic" in other words, stuff that ACTUALLY works. Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #399

I give credit to both, as both have their place in healing BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #404

So why can't healing be demonstrated for the alternatives you advocate for? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #405

Absolutely, and thankfully that is taking place everyday as we learn that we do not have all mother earth Dec 2013 #411

Sid, have you never heard of integrative medicine being practiced by MD's who have a more forward mother earth Dec 2013 #328

+1 BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #339

I should have recc'd this the first time BootinUp Dec 2013 #367

Oh please!!! darkangel218 Dec 2013 #406

Holy Smokes! thats a lot of replies. I thought this was a pretty straightforward, common fucking... BootinUp Dec 2013 #427

There a huge anti-science contingent that posts at DU... SidDithers Dec 2013 #429