General Discussion

Recursion

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16. When you enter a country as a diplomat you're accredited at a certain level

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:28 AM

Dec 2013

Ambassadors and other very high level diplomats are personally inviolable, but lower-level staff are generally only immunized for actions that take place as part of their official duties. (eg, as a dependent of a low-level diplomat, I have zero immunity, and my wife has next-to-zero immunity). Generally our car doesn't get searched when we go into a parking garage because we have consular plates, but that's a courtesy, and the police can search our private car pursuant to India's (nearly nonexistent) legal procedures. If we were in a consulate-owned car on official business things would be different, and if we were carrying a Pouch things would be very very different. But the Indian police can search my own apartment or car just like any other.

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"For an educated middle-class woman to face public arrest and a strip search is almost unimaginable" [View all] Liberal_in_LA Dec 2013 OP

The case touches on a string of issues that strike deeply in India? She's a diplomat FFS! Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #1

No, her diplomatic immunity doesn't affect this issue. nt tblue37 Dec 2013 #2

Orly? Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #4

From that same cite Benton D Struckcheon Dec 2013 #7

Now, India has appointed her to its permanent mission at the United Nations Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #152

When you enter a country as a diplomat you're accredited at a certain level Recursion Dec 2013 #16

Now, India has appointed her to its permanent mission at the United Nations and Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #148

That's an interesting twist Recursion Dec 2013 #172

That's not how immunity works Recursion Dec 2013 #12

That is exactly how it works. The State Dept is in full apology mode Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #147

"Expressing regret" is actually specifically not an apology Recursion Dec 2013 #173

"The treatment and pay of household staff, meanwhile, is largely seen as a family issue, off-limits bettyellen Dec 2013 #3

People are furious here Recursion Dec 2013 #15

She essentially imported a slave alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #5

We should only be treating violent criminals like that. Period. Th1onein Dec 2013 #8

NYT article has U.S. police denying strip search occurred Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #10

Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2013 #11

Your defense of a human trafficker...who was not strip-searched, btw, msanthrope Dec 2013 #46

Care to explain why you are "intrigued"? woo me with science Dec 2013 #48

I find your seeming lack of consideration...though I may be mistaken... msanthrope Dec 2013 #96

Sorry, msanthrope, argument over and you lose (the dreaded "a" word has been unlimbered). 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #98

Do you strip search your Cub Scouts? woo me with science Dec 2013 #105

What's stunning is your attempt to conflate the appropriate treatment of 7 year old boys ... 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #120

*MY* attempt to conflate them? woo me with science Dec 2013 #129

I take the side of the household slave.....and I'm the authoritarian. msanthrope Dec 2013 #138

You noticed that as well. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #142

You take the side of an ALLEGED household slave . . . markpkessinger Dec 2013 #155

In court, she is entitled to that presumption. Not on DU. nt msanthrope Dec 2013 #181

But what we are talking about . . . markpkessinger Dec 2013 #182

Actually...her booking procedure has nothing to do with the presumption of innocence. msanthrope Dec 2013 #184

+1... Historic NY Dec 2013 #204

Uh, if law enforcement operated on that basis, nobody would get arrested jberryhill Dec 2013 #185

I don't think it's a defense so much as yet another opportunity for that poster to use the word Number23 Dec 2013 #174

You forgot "Stasi!". That's a favorite refrain of those engaging in political msanthrope Dec 2013 #180

you got that right! Vattel Dec 2013 #64

I'm seeing more of this among so called liberals fujiyama Dec 2013 #169

they most likely are violent criminals in the treatment of their Slaves JI7 Dec 2013 #18

That's avoiding the issue. Th1onein Dec 2013 #33

no... importing a slave is the issue... yeah... bout it uponit7771 Dec 2013 #42

So the question is whether ndentured servitude is violent by its nature TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Dec 2013 #83

I absolutely agree. This strip searching of people is dehumanizing and intended to be. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #20

+1 nt Live and Learn Dec 2013 #24

Keistering Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #25

And we have no machines that can detect these things? That's funny, I thought that we had 'naked sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #27

Let's use some common sense here. Th1onein Dec 2013 #34

NYPD denies there was a strip search Recursion Dec 2013 #40

Sorry, I don't believe anything the cops there say. Th1onein Dec 2013 #53

But you believe a highly-connected diplomat who illegally got two free flats Recursion Dec 2013 #54

I'd believe anyone, other than a cop. Th1onein Dec 2013 #56

Fair enough Recursion Dec 2013 #57

ok, if this was some winger from Oklahoma would you be asking that question? uponit7771 Dec 2013 #43

Ever hear of equal treatment under the law? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #66

No one here is demanding that she be treated differently. Th1onein Dec 2013 #90

They strip search A LOT if not most prisoners Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #116

It certainly wasn't a violent offense, and judging from her position, do you REALLY Th1onein Dec 2013 #135

Oh okay, so we're supposed to kiss her ass because of her position? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #145

^this Marrah_G Dec 2013 #149

probably because of lawyers and insurance companies hfojvt Dec 2013 #29

With all due respect leftynyc Dec 2013 #32

I don't care who she is, no one should be treated the way they are treated, NO ONE, by our so-called sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #36

Her fans would be leftynyc Dec 2013 #38

Has she been convicted of a crime? She was ACCUSED. According to my recollection of our sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #41

Forget dictatorships leftynyc Dec 2013 #45

You are totally missing the point. It isn't about HER, or about the well known and disgraceful sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #73

I agree that private prisons are a curse leftynyc Dec 2013 #107

Let me see if I can explain it more clearly. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #127

You have misrepresented me leftynyc Dec 2013 #128

What an odd post. Do you really think that people who SUPPORT our laws and principles are the ones sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #130

I couldn't agree more. Vattel Dec 2013 #70

Absolutely right. Th1onein Dec 2013 #94

+100000000 THIS is the central point woo me with science Dec 2013 #124

Very well said, Sabrina. Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2013 #49

Thank you. I guess when people have been abused over a long period of time, either as individuals sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #79

I agree about arrest procedures. Cavity search is despicable, regardless who it applied to. idwiyo Dec 2013 #85

Who is alleging a cavity search? jberryhill Dec 2013 #88

What surprises me most of all, is the fact that no one is discussing her subhuman treatment of her Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2013 #92

The subhuman treatment of her maid is what she was arrested for. Th1onein Dec 2013 #103

The rest of the issues are that she was arrested and was subject to the same treatment that Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #154

Case is open, for millions of Americans who are treated like animals over trivial Th1onein Dec 2013 #161

Wow, what a sissy you are. LOL. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #164

They just don't give a shit Marrah_G Dec 2013 #109

You don't think keeping a slave is as bad as a mugging? pnwmom Dec 2013 #26

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2013 #44

You know...if I drew a Venn based on this thread and the Assange threads, msanthrope Dec 2013 #47

If she is a human trafficker, Vattel Dec 2013 #74

That you expect charges and actions to line up with accuracy is touching msanthrope Dec 2013 #97

I just want to know why you think she is a human trafficker. Vattel Dec 2013 #102

Slavery doesn't have to officially be called slavery for it to be so. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #119

Underpaying an employee? You mean, transporting a human into msanthrope Dec 2013 #136

huh? that is human trafficking? you need to look up the definition Vattel Dec 2013 #165

Yes....that is human trafficking. It isn't just the tv-movie-of the week white slavery msanthrope Dec 2013 #183

You are just pretending to know that this was a case of slave labor. Vattel Dec 2013 #199

That is *precisely* human trafficking. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #192

To bring someone here on false pretenses pnwmom Dec 2013 #141

how do you know she couldn't return home? Vattel Dec 2013 #166

Tickets to India are expensive. And, as I said, her employers pnwmom Dec 2013 #175

so you don't know Vattel Dec 2013 #196

I know tickets are expensive and she's been paid a pittance. pnwmom Dec 2013 #197

I just want to know the facts. I am not defending anyone. Vattel Dec 2013 #198

The employer hasn't said the employee is lying about her pay. pnwmom Dec 2013 #200

low pay, even in violation of a contract, does not entail human trafficking Vattel Dec 2013 #203

The details will come out. In the meantime, the charges are warranted. pnwmom Dec 2013 #205

Sure, but she is not charged with human trafficking, or kidnapping or any other related offense Vattel Dec 2013 #206

If I were to read DU in threads like this and the Assange threads and focus only on the minority of sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #99

Do you believe inmates should be kept safe from assault while in custody? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #65

We can be better than that. In Illinois, they are better: (725 ILCS 5/Art. 103 heading) Th1onein Dec 2013 #106

And was this woman arrested for a minor traffic offense or misdemeanor? No. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #121

Read it again and you'll get it: Th1onein Dec 2013 #134

Number one, she isn't in Illinois Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #146

Bull. And we're NOT going to get over it. It's wrong to do this to any human being Th1onein Dec 2013 #159

Actually, they do it to make the jail more safe. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #162

Violations of rights by the government are always rationalized by appeal to safety. Vattel Dec 2013 #168

Certain risks yes. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #186

How ever one is treated tazkcmo Dec 2013 #153

map of where Slaves in the world today are JI7 Dec 2013 #17

There are 14 million enslaved persons in India today Recursion Dec 2013 #19

There was a lot of rhetoric in that piece you posted. From what i read in several articles earlier okaawhatever Dec 2013 #21

Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff around this case: eg, the husband is testifying against her Recursion Dec 2013 #23

Lying on a visa application is a serious matter malaise Dec 2013 #6

First, let's get all the facts Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #9

yeah, only poor people who live in Slums should be treated that way JI7 Dec 2013 #13

she probably thinks only the person she was trying to bring in should be treated that way JI7 Dec 2013 #14

Diplomat in visa row owns flat in scam-tainted Adarsh Society JI7 Dec 2013 #22

Ah, crap. That's definitely going to hurt the Congress party next year Recursion Dec 2013 #28

but modi and the rest of the right are supporting her and attacking JI7 Dec 2013 #30

Modi never misses a chance to pander Recursion Dec 2013 #31

I like how India seems more outraged over "an educated, middle-class woman" getting this treatment Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #35

That's what gets me also leftynyc Dec 2013 #39

WE HAVE A WINNER!!! nt kelliekat44 Dec 2013 #61

What they don't care about is the servant she was trying to bring here. Marrah_G Dec 2013 #77

And they damn well should! Ken Burch Dec 2013 #87

I know right? Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #143

well, this here's Uhhhhmerica FatBuddy Dec 2013 #37

This line stood out for me: MineralMan Dec 2013 #50

the description of the woman says it all. elehhhhna Dec 2013 #157

India can blow their outrage out their ass Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #51

And what part of a visa violation charge warrants a strip search? intaglio Dec 2013 #52

It's been litigated in the courts and found to be lawful to strip search all arrestee's Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #55

Legal is one thing intaglio Dec 2013 #60

So the fact that she's an educated middle class woman renders it unjust? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #69

The fact she is a human being renders it unjust n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #84

So you htink she should be mollycoddled and treated differently Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #118

Perhaps not all the prisoners are treated like that intaglio Dec 2013 #125

Well, as somebody who's been to jail twice for non-violent civil disobedience Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #151

Drug addicts, stabbing - Hollywood and TV really has conditioned you intaglio Dec 2013 #177

Hmmm....actually, reality has conditioned me. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author Vattel Dec 2013 #201

Strip searches are quite common for many arrests Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #58

I refer you to post 60 n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #62

And I refer you to the fact that if you truly believe in equality under the law Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #71

I actually believe that the privileges granted to rich white people should be extended as far intaglio Dec 2013 #75

If she was found innocent of the crime Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #156

So innocent until proven guilty does not enter the equation intaglio Dec 2013 #160

So by that rationale, an unsentenced inmate should never be Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #163

Restricted, possibly, if there is a danger of flight or intimidation of witnesses. intaglio Dec 2013 #176

To pretend that you can predict who is going to be a flight risk or who is going to act out Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #188

Yeah, Indian diplomats who kill people with knives stuck up their butt Vattel Dec 2013 #91

I must have missed the law where it says strip searches don't apply to Indian diplomats Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #158

I object to anyone being subjected to a strip search Vattel Dec 2013 #167

Do you think everybody who could smuggle a weapon into jail advertises it on their forehead? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #191

sure, strip search everyone, doing clear harm, because just maybe . . . Vattel Dec 2013 #195

Have you even been arrested and taken to jail before? SoCalNative Dec 2013 #59

Nope, and anyway what warranted (justified) this search? n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #63

No, it was because she submitted false documents to obtain a work visa Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #67

So what were they searching for? A pen? intaglio Dec 2013 #72

They search everyone to try and keep drugs and anything that can be used as a weapon out of the jail Marrah_G Dec 2013 #80

Seriously, for fear of concealed drugs we need strip searches for all arrestees held in jail? Vattel Dec 2013 #93

Not all weapons are metal Marrah_G Dec 2013 #108

sorry, but strip searches without reasonable suspicion are disgusting. Vattel Dec 2013 #113

Tell that to somebody who was in jail for a minor offense that ended up getting shanked Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #117

We all live with risk fujiyama Dec 2013 #170

Hey, I'm opposed to the drug war and locking people up for most non-violent offenses Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #189

Check my post #177 link below intaglio Dec 2013 #179

Do you realize that you are saying that certain treatment should only be applied to those who look Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #190

It's an "administrative search", not one based on cause jberryhill Dec 2013 #82

I don't know the practices of that facility, but Vattel Dec 2013 #101

You'll have to provide a cite for that jberryhill Dec 2013 #104

My mistake. I was confusing strip searches and cavity searches. Vattel Dec 2013 #111

Yup jberryhill Dec 2013 #112

Anyone being booked into jail is searched. Marrah_G Dec 2013 #78

Strip searched? intaglio Dec 2013 #86

Yes jberryhill Dec 2013 #110

One of the worst decided cases of this SC fujiyama Dec 2013 #171

Interesting assertion in light of the following post intaglio Dec 2013 #178

the police should have handled the situation more delicately Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #126

India is being honest about their anti-working class bias. Dawson Leery Dec 2013 #68

Class bullshit Marrah_G Dec 2013 #76

...but for a less-educated lower-class woman, it's just part of the deal?... Ken Burch Dec 2013 #81

So home servants in India have no legal protection. Deep13 Dec 2013 #95

But "For an educated middle-class woman to" keep a slave is completely imaginable, apparently. KurtNYC Dec 2013 #100

change that headline to "WEALTHY" and it would apply to the US yurbud Dec 2013 #114

Bernie Madoff was not only strip-searched when booked, but cavity searched upon incarceration. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #193

Bernie Madoff made a tragic mistake--he robbed the rich instead of the rest of us yurbud Dec 2013 #194

So it's okay to treat the ill-educated poor that way? n/t winter is coming Dec 2013 #115

This story is still not worth waking up from my nappy-nap, sorry. closeupready Dec 2013 #122

She is Deputy Counsul General for Women's Affairs (among other titles)! closeupready Dec 2013 #123

well, it would explain why things are tough for women in the country JI7 Dec 2013 #131

I think she also is titular chair of some committe on exploited workers. closeupready Dec 2013 #132

she is a piece of shit and worse than drug addicts who she is so offended to be put with JI7 Dec 2013 #133

Well said. But I guess you, like me, have an authoritarian stench (I was msanthrope Dec 2013 #137

+1 Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #144

I find this comically ironic. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #139

Hear! Hear! Sognefjord Dec 2013 #140

Too fucking bad. We decided the slavery question in this country a long time ago. Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #150

Totally agree. Getting stripped by the cops is completely humiliating. Trillo Dec 2013 #202