General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

41. Has she been convicted of a crime? She was ACCUSED. According to my recollection of our

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:23 PM

Dec 2013

system of justice, no one is guilty until they have been charged, tried and convicted. Our prison system is a disgrace.

As you yourself just said, our system is so bad that the abuses begin the minute someone is accused of a crime.

Neither she nor anyone else no matter what they are accused of, should be treated like a criminal until it is determined that they are a criminal. After which they should serve their sentence during which time they should be treated humanely.

See Guantanamo, not to mention some of our private prisons. This case is getting attention but every day abuses occur in our prisons that get no attention.

It's sad when we have to say 'but we're better than prisons in dictatorships'. The comparison should be to other Democratic nations, not to third world countries run by dictators. Which btw, we have used to send some of our detainees to for torture purposes.

There are countries where time in prison is used to rehabilitate criminals since they will be going back into society eventually. The success of these policies is evident by the recidivism rate. Ours is sky high so clearly a system that is all about 'punishment' is a failure.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

206 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"For an educated middle-class woman to face public arrest and a strip search is almost unimaginable" [View all] Liberal_in_LA Dec 2013 OP

The case touches on a string of issues that strike deeply in India? She's a diplomat FFS! Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #1

No, her diplomatic immunity doesn't affect this issue. nt tblue37 Dec 2013 #2

Orly? Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #4

From that same cite Benton D Struckcheon Dec 2013 #7

Now, India has appointed her to its permanent mission at the United Nations Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #152

When you enter a country as a diplomat you're accredited at a certain level Recursion Dec 2013 #16

Now, India has appointed her to its permanent mission at the United Nations and Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #148

That's an interesting twist Recursion Dec 2013 #172

That's not how immunity works Recursion Dec 2013 #12

That is exactly how it works. The State Dept is in full apology mode Xipe Totec Dec 2013 #147

"Expressing regret" is actually specifically not an apology Recursion Dec 2013 #173

"The treatment and pay of household staff, meanwhile, is largely seen as a family issue, off-limits bettyellen Dec 2013 #3

People are furious here Recursion Dec 2013 #15

She essentially imported a slave alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #5

We should only be treating violent criminals like that. Period. Th1onein Dec 2013 #8

NYT article has U.S. police denying strip search occurred Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #10

Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2013 #11

Your defense of a human trafficker...who was not strip-searched, btw, msanthrope Dec 2013 #46

Care to explain why you are "intrigued"? woo me with science Dec 2013 #48

I find your seeming lack of consideration...though I may be mistaken... msanthrope Dec 2013 #96

Sorry, msanthrope, argument over and you lose (the dreaded "a" word has been unlimbered). 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #98

Do you strip search your Cub Scouts? woo me with science Dec 2013 #105

What's stunning is your attempt to conflate the appropriate treatment of 7 year old boys ... 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #120

*MY* attempt to conflate them? woo me with science Dec 2013 #129

I take the side of the household slave.....and I'm the authoritarian. msanthrope Dec 2013 #138

You noticed that as well. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #142

You take the side of an ALLEGED household slave . . . markpkessinger Dec 2013 #155

In court, she is entitled to that presumption. Not on DU. nt msanthrope Dec 2013 #181

But what we are talking about . . . markpkessinger Dec 2013 #182

Actually...her booking procedure has nothing to do with the presumption of innocence. msanthrope Dec 2013 #184

+1... Historic NY Dec 2013 #204

Uh, if law enforcement operated on that basis, nobody would get arrested jberryhill Dec 2013 #185

I don't think it's a defense so much as yet another opportunity for that poster to use the word Number23 Dec 2013 #174

You forgot "Stasi!". That's a favorite refrain of those engaging in political msanthrope Dec 2013 #180

you got that right! Vattel Dec 2013 #64

I'm seeing more of this among so called liberals fujiyama Dec 2013 #169

they most likely are violent criminals in the treatment of their Slaves JI7 Dec 2013 #18

That's avoiding the issue. Th1onein Dec 2013 #33

no... importing a slave is the issue... yeah... bout it uponit7771 Dec 2013 #42

So the question is whether ndentured servitude is violent by its nature TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Dec 2013 #83

I absolutely agree. This strip searching of people is dehumanizing and intended to be. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #20

+1 nt Live and Learn Dec 2013 #24

Keistering Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #25

And we have no machines that can detect these things? That's funny, I thought that we had 'naked sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #27

Let's use some common sense here. Th1onein Dec 2013 #34

NYPD denies there was a strip search Recursion Dec 2013 #40

Sorry, I don't believe anything the cops there say. Th1onein Dec 2013 #53

But you believe a highly-connected diplomat who illegally got two free flats Recursion Dec 2013 #54

I'd believe anyone, other than a cop. Th1onein Dec 2013 #56

Fair enough Recursion Dec 2013 #57

ok, if this was some winger from Oklahoma would you be asking that question? uponit7771 Dec 2013 #43

Ever hear of equal treatment under the law? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #66

No one here is demanding that she be treated differently. Th1onein Dec 2013 #90

They strip search A LOT if not most prisoners Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #116

It certainly wasn't a violent offense, and judging from her position, do you REALLY Th1onein Dec 2013 #135

Oh okay, so we're supposed to kiss her ass because of her position? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #145

^this Marrah_G Dec 2013 #149

probably because of lawyers and insurance companies hfojvt Dec 2013 #29

With all due respect leftynyc Dec 2013 #32

I don't care who she is, no one should be treated the way they are treated, NO ONE, by our so-called sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #36

Her fans would be leftynyc Dec 2013 #38

Has she been convicted of a crime? She was ACCUSED. According to my recollection of our sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #41

Forget dictatorships leftynyc Dec 2013 #45

You are totally missing the point. It isn't about HER, or about the well known and disgraceful sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #73

I agree that private prisons are a curse leftynyc Dec 2013 #107

Let me see if I can explain it more clearly. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #127

You have misrepresented me leftynyc Dec 2013 #128

What an odd post. Do you really think that people who SUPPORT our laws and principles are the ones sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #130

I couldn't agree more. Vattel Dec 2013 #70

Absolutely right. Th1onein Dec 2013 #94

+100000000 THIS is the central point woo me with science Dec 2013 #124

Very well said, Sabrina. Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2013 #49

Thank you. I guess when people have been abused over a long period of time, either as individuals sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #79

I agree about arrest procedures. Cavity search is despicable, regardless who it applied to. idwiyo Dec 2013 #85

Who is alleging a cavity search? jberryhill Dec 2013 #88

What surprises me most of all, is the fact that no one is discussing her subhuman treatment of her Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2013 #92

The subhuman treatment of her maid is what she was arrested for. Th1onein Dec 2013 #103

The rest of the issues are that she was arrested and was subject to the same treatment that Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #154

Case is open, for millions of Americans who are treated like animals over trivial Th1onein Dec 2013 #161

Wow, what a sissy you are. LOL. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #164

They just don't give a shit Marrah_G Dec 2013 #109

You don't think keeping a slave is as bad as a mugging? pnwmom Dec 2013 #26

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2013 #44

You know...if I drew a Venn based on this thread and the Assange threads, msanthrope Dec 2013 #47

If she is a human trafficker, Vattel Dec 2013 #74

That you expect charges and actions to line up with accuracy is touching msanthrope Dec 2013 #97

I just want to know why you think she is a human trafficker. Vattel Dec 2013 #102

Slavery doesn't have to officially be called slavery for it to be so. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #119

Underpaying an employee? You mean, transporting a human into msanthrope Dec 2013 #136

huh? that is human trafficking? you need to look up the definition Vattel Dec 2013 #165

Yes....that is human trafficking. It isn't just the tv-movie-of the week white slavery msanthrope Dec 2013 #183

You are just pretending to know that this was a case of slave labor. Vattel Dec 2013 #199

That is *precisely* human trafficking. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #192

To bring someone here on false pretenses pnwmom Dec 2013 #141

how do you know she couldn't return home? Vattel Dec 2013 #166

Tickets to India are expensive. And, as I said, her employers pnwmom Dec 2013 #175

so you don't know Vattel Dec 2013 #196

I know tickets are expensive and she's been paid a pittance. pnwmom Dec 2013 #197

I just want to know the facts. I am not defending anyone. Vattel Dec 2013 #198

The employer hasn't said the employee is lying about her pay. pnwmom Dec 2013 #200

low pay, even in violation of a contract, does not entail human trafficking Vattel Dec 2013 #203

The details will come out. In the meantime, the charges are warranted. pnwmom Dec 2013 #205

Sure, but she is not charged with human trafficking, or kidnapping or any other related offense Vattel Dec 2013 #206

If I were to read DU in threads like this and the Assange threads and focus only on the minority of sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #99

Do you believe inmates should be kept safe from assault while in custody? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #65

We can be better than that. In Illinois, they are better: (725 ILCS 5/Art. 103 heading) Th1onein Dec 2013 #106

And was this woman arrested for a minor traffic offense or misdemeanor? No. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #121

Read it again and you'll get it: Th1onein Dec 2013 #134

Number one, she isn't in Illinois Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #146

Bull. And we're NOT going to get over it. It's wrong to do this to any human being Th1onein Dec 2013 #159

Actually, they do it to make the jail more safe. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #162

Violations of rights by the government are always rationalized by appeal to safety. Vattel Dec 2013 #168

Certain risks yes. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #186

How ever one is treated tazkcmo Dec 2013 #153

map of where Slaves in the world today are JI7 Dec 2013 #17

There are 14 million enslaved persons in India today Recursion Dec 2013 #19

There was a lot of rhetoric in that piece you posted. From what i read in several articles earlier okaawhatever Dec 2013 #21

Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff around this case: eg, the husband is testifying against her Recursion Dec 2013 #23

Lying on a visa application is a serious matter malaise Dec 2013 #6

First, let's get all the facts Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #9

yeah, only poor people who live in Slums should be treated that way JI7 Dec 2013 #13

she probably thinks only the person she was trying to bring in should be treated that way JI7 Dec 2013 #14

Diplomat in visa row owns flat in scam-tainted Adarsh Society JI7 Dec 2013 #22

Ah, crap. That's definitely going to hurt the Congress party next year Recursion Dec 2013 #28

but modi and the rest of the right are supporting her and attacking JI7 Dec 2013 #30

Modi never misses a chance to pander Recursion Dec 2013 #31

I like how India seems more outraged over "an educated, middle-class woman" getting this treatment Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #35

That's what gets me also leftynyc Dec 2013 #39

WE HAVE A WINNER!!! nt kelliekat44 Dec 2013 #61

What they don't care about is the servant she was trying to bring here. Marrah_G Dec 2013 #77

And they damn well should! Ken Burch Dec 2013 #87

I know right? Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #143

well, this here's Uhhhhmerica FatBuddy Dec 2013 #37

This line stood out for me: MineralMan Dec 2013 #50

the description of the woman says it all. elehhhhna Dec 2013 #157

India can blow their outrage out their ass Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #51

And what part of a visa violation charge warrants a strip search? intaglio Dec 2013 #52

It's been litigated in the courts and found to be lawful to strip search all arrestee's Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #55

Legal is one thing intaglio Dec 2013 #60

So the fact that she's an educated middle class woman renders it unjust? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #69

The fact she is a human being renders it unjust n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #84

So you htink she should be mollycoddled and treated differently Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #118

Perhaps not all the prisoners are treated like that intaglio Dec 2013 #125

Well, as somebody who's been to jail twice for non-violent civil disobedience Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #151

Drug addicts, stabbing - Hollywood and TV really has conditioned you intaglio Dec 2013 #177

Hmmm....actually, reality has conditioned me. Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author Vattel Dec 2013 #201

Strip searches are quite common for many arrests Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #58

I refer you to post 60 n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #62

And I refer you to the fact that if you truly believe in equality under the law Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #71

I actually believe that the privileges granted to rich white people should be extended as far intaglio Dec 2013 #75

If she was found innocent of the crime Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #156

So innocent until proven guilty does not enter the equation intaglio Dec 2013 #160

So by that rationale, an unsentenced inmate should never be Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #163

Restricted, possibly, if there is a danger of flight or intimidation of witnesses. intaglio Dec 2013 #176

To pretend that you can predict who is going to be a flight risk or who is going to act out Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #188

Yeah, Indian diplomats who kill people with knives stuck up their butt Vattel Dec 2013 #91

I must have missed the law where it says strip searches don't apply to Indian diplomats Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #158

I object to anyone being subjected to a strip search Vattel Dec 2013 #167

Do you think everybody who could smuggle a weapon into jail advertises it on their forehead? Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #191

sure, strip search everyone, doing clear harm, because just maybe . . . Vattel Dec 2013 #195

Have you even been arrested and taken to jail before? SoCalNative Dec 2013 #59

Nope, and anyway what warranted (justified) this search? n/t intaglio Dec 2013 #63

No, it was because she submitted false documents to obtain a work visa Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #67

So what were they searching for? A pen? intaglio Dec 2013 #72

They search everyone to try and keep drugs and anything that can be used as a weapon out of the jail Marrah_G Dec 2013 #80

Seriously, for fear of concealed drugs we need strip searches for all arrestees held in jail? Vattel Dec 2013 #93

Not all weapons are metal Marrah_G Dec 2013 #108

sorry, but strip searches without reasonable suspicion are disgusting. Vattel Dec 2013 #113

Tell that to somebody who was in jail for a minor offense that ended up getting shanked Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #117

We all live with risk fujiyama Dec 2013 #170

Hey, I'm opposed to the drug war and locking people up for most non-violent offenses Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #189

Check my post #177 link below intaglio Dec 2013 #179

Do you realize that you are saying that certain treatment should only be applied to those who look Downtown Hound Dec 2013 #190

It's an "administrative search", not one based on cause jberryhill Dec 2013 #82

I don't know the practices of that facility, but Vattel Dec 2013 #101

You'll have to provide a cite for that jberryhill Dec 2013 #104

My mistake. I was confusing strip searches and cavity searches. Vattel Dec 2013 #111

Yup jberryhill Dec 2013 #112

Anyone being booked into jail is searched. Marrah_G Dec 2013 #78

Strip searched? intaglio Dec 2013 #86

Yes jberryhill Dec 2013 #110

One of the worst decided cases of this SC fujiyama Dec 2013 #171

Interesting assertion in light of the following post intaglio Dec 2013 #178

the police should have handled the situation more delicately Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #126

India is being honest about their anti-working class bias. Dawson Leery Dec 2013 #68

Class bullshit Marrah_G Dec 2013 #76

...but for a less-educated lower-class woman, it's just part of the deal?... Ken Burch Dec 2013 #81

So home servants in India have no legal protection. Deep13 Dec 2013 #95

But "For an educated middle-class woman to" keep a slave is completely imaginable, apparently. KurtNYC Dec 2013 #100

change that headline to "WEALTHY" and it would apply to the US yurbud Dec 2013 #114

Bernie Madoff was not only strip-searched when booked, but cavity searched upon incarceration. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #193

Bernie Madoff made a tragic mistake--he robbed the rich instead of the rest of us yurbud Dec 2013 #194

So it's okay to treat the ill-educated poor that way? n/t winter is coming Dec 2013 #115

This story is still not worth waking up from my nappy-nap, sorry. closeupready Dec 2013 #122

She is Deputy Counsul General for Women's Affairs (among other titles)! closeupready Dec 2013 #123

well, it would explain why things are tough for women in the country JI7 Dec 2013 #131

I think she also is titular chair of some committe on exploited workers. closeupready Dec 2013 #132

she is a piece of shit and worse than drug addicts who she is so offended to be put with JI7 Dec 2013 #133

Well said. But I guess you, like me, have an authoritarian stench (I was msanthrope Dec 2013 #137

+1 Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #144

I find this comically ironic. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #139

Hear! Hear! Sognefjord Dec 2013 #140

Too fucking bad. We decided the slavery question in this country a long time ago. Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #150

Totally agree. Getting stripped by the cops is completely humiliating. Trillo Dec 2013 #202