General Discussion

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)

267. So true. And sometimes a spouse will lie beforehand.

Fri Jan 24, 2014, 03:01 AM

Jan 2014

My now-ex told me he wanted many children. I wanted at least 5 kids, and I wanted to be young when I started and I was very upfront about wanting a big family. I talked about it constantly. He knew exactly what he was getting in to and always told me he wanted the same thing, at least 5 kids and he wanted to start while we were young because he had older parents that weren't very involved and he wanted to be involved.

I found out later, after we had 4 children, after he left me for another woman that what he told me about wanting kids was a lie. He never wanted so many kids. He said he never really enjoyed family life and that he just said that he wanted lots of kids because, and I quote, "I was young, I would've said anything to get you in bed." (found out later he's likely a sociopath or a malignant narcissist)

I'm currently raising those 4 kids on my own. My ex sees them 1 weekend a month. Luckily, he has no issues paying for them, but he's not involved at all. Had I known the truth, I never would've stayed with him and had children with him. I feel like those years were totally wasted. I only had children with him because he told me he wanted the same things and that he valued family life etc. So sometimes, even when you do discuss this stuff beforehand, you can get burned as you have shown with your college friend. Why they wouldn't get a divorce is beyond me. Now that I know the truth, how my whole relationship with my ex was a lie, I cannot imagine still being with him. I don't get why anyone would want to live with that. ugh.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 OP

you're asking if the man has some right to order her to bear a child? fishwax Jan 2014 #1

Bottom line: none. Ilsa Jan 2014 #2

+1 nt Javaman Jan 2014 #77

Didn't have to read any farther Egnever Jan 2014 #122

Pregnancy is risky and uncomfortable. Labor is agony. And women bear the brunt of the work Warpy Jan 2014 #160

Not to mention who will bear the brunt of the childcare. nt kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #188

If she wants a baby and he doesn't, what then? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #279

You're asking me to solve this problem? Ilsa Jan 2014 #295

No. Just getting some opinions, OK? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #330

My guess is he shouldn't ejaculate into her. PassingFair Jan 2014 #318

Yep. TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #334

None whatsoever (regarding your question in the third paragraph). demmiblue Jan 2014 #3

When a man gaspee Jan 2014 #4

Exactly the phrase that came to my mind - irreconcilable difference ReasonableToo Jan 2014 #108

That�there...^^^^^ MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #337

Whose body will bear this hypothetical child? BlueMTexpat Jan 2014 #5

I wish I could tell you shenmue Jan 2014 #6

This message was self-deleted by its author Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #7

If you're ready to climb Mt. Everest Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #8

Exactly. Very well put. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #9

I think the OP is confusing Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #13

Yes. Pretty much this. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #49

The final decision is ALWAYS the woman. Always. No exception. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #10

Tough fucking shit? Classy! Nice civil response! LOL, angry a lot? nt Logical Jan 2014 #75

Nope, but thanks for your concern!! PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #76

There are individuals here with a vested interest in ensuring that NO discussion of this nature ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #107

Good point! nt Logical Jan 2014 #113

Super cute how you 2 hone in on one response in the whole thread. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #124

It's the truth, though Aerows Jan 2014 #230

This is a great comment. bravenak Jan 2014 #240

But that child is genetically the father's also adigal Jan 2014 #139

And you'd be for forcing her to have the child? Okey dokey. Squinch Jan 2014 #140

Say the man doesn't want a child? adigal Jan 2014 #146

What makes you think I'd be forcing him to support the child? Squinch Jan 2014 #151

huzzah! Scout Jan 2014 #153

I'ts absurd and illogical to hold a child responsible for actions he/she had no control over kcr Jan 2014 #158

If the man doesn't want a child he shouldn't have one - TBF Jan 2014 #195

now , in the spirit of the discussion Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #253

Right - TBF Jan 2014 #272

To be fair kcr Jan 2014 #321

If a man doesn't want a child, then the man needs to keep it in his pants notadmblnd Jan 2014 #278

This was alerted on JustAnotherGen Jan 2014 #197

lol, thanks! PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #199

I can't believe JustAnotherGen Jan 2014 #200

Ignore also works if my foul-mouth offends one's delicate sensibilities. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #201

Yep. Iggo Jan 2014 #349

Why would you want to have a child with someone who is not ready to parent? Heidi Jan 2014 #11

Um, but divorce the current wife, yes? nt justiceischeap Jan 2014 #12

Clearly, yes. Heidi Jan 2014 #14

I totally agree justiceischeap Jan 2014 #15

Well, he says, "She is not ready to be a mother." Heidi Jan 2014 #16

Exactly. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #19

No. Don't pass judgement. I respect her decision and am waiting until she is ready to pursue a Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #20

I didn't read Heidi's response as passing judgement, but stating facts. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #21

It is, but I accept. I just turned 35. I can wait a little longer if she wants to wait. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #22

I (sort of) understand. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #25

Perhaps a pet? 2naSalit Jan 2014 #81

why would you follow some parts of the culture (staying together if miserable) and not others... bettyellen Jan 2014 #92

Nice ethnocentric attitude. Culture is already fucked up according to me Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #263

Bullshit- you're doing a cafeteria version of the Chinese culture, so no reason to feel bound to it. bettyellen Jan 2014 #290

Is this a change of heart? Did you discuss this before you married? MADem Jan 2014 #106

"Chinese culture is very specific on marriage and divorce" amuse bouche Jan 2014 #236

Screw you, buddy. You have no idea what you are talking about Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #257

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #280

I'd be pissed if my husband posted my real name and email address online on some forum. JTFrog Jan 2014 #305

if you sre in the US Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #254

I'm not in the US. I'm in China. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #258

oh that makes sense then Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #262

I'm not passing judgment. You asked the question Heidi Jan 2014 #24

So.... what is your opinion? boston bean Jan 2014 #37

will you respect it if she chooses never to bear a child? she may expect to be ready someday... bettyellen Jan 2014 #91

Yes. . .I will. However, knowing Chinese culture and the overwhelming desire for Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #192

No, it's the height of ignorance to assume every woman wants to bear children�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #202

Okay. . .buddy. I am an American. If I call my wife a "girl," she will scream she is not Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #212

Well aren't you just the boss of DU kcr Jan 2014 #222

When you live here as long as I have, talk to me. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #260

Given what I've seen of your expertise in this thread kcr Jan 2014 #274

Whatever makes your jiggle wiggle. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #284

I'll admit, I'm no expert myself kcr Jan 2014 #299

I love the part about how he loves her because she totally spoils him, as if solicitous servicing bettyellen Jan 2014 #312

I thought the same thing kcr Jan 2014 #313

and WTF with all the- "I'm just posing a question" about a repulsive idea- not that I have ANY skin bettyellen Jan 2014 #315

I know. So transparent. kcr Jan 2014 #317

the funny twist is- "I am so assimilated into this backward culture it is not my fault�" bettyellen Jan 2014 #319

Did you see the post kcr Jan 2014 #323

and the weird comment- go ahead and contact her- it's futile! Bwaaah ha ha ha *twirls mustache* bettyellen Jan 2014 #338

QQ numbers are not phone numbers. God in heaven, I am so glad I left the States if this Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #356

Oh, excuse me, QQ number. That's different kcr Jan 2014 #357

You made the assumption I am mistreating her and saying "if you could, you'd tell her to run Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #359

Again kcr Jan 2014 #361

It's called "calling a bluff." Good God, they give out their QQ numbers to complete strangers Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #362

In all of China? Wow! kcr Jan 2014 #364

They also do selective abortions, which is why there are more boys than girls in China Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #363

I have actually heard about the more boys than girls in China kcr Jan 2014 #365

Ah, you are American, which explains why you do not try to respect the culture of those you're bettyellen Jan 2014 #288

I live in China. How can I not respect their culture? Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #358

I was noting you hand't picked up the Asian extra polite style of interaction, and instead insult bettyellen Jan 2014 #368

why did you post all these racial slurs here? you are not ignorant of American culture as to think bettyellen Jan 2014 #369

We're just a bunch of dumb old Americans kcr Jan 2014 #370

Not every woman Aerows Jan 2014 #232

Women are human beings gollygee Jan 2014 #277

"This is different than men in China who will force the child on their wives" amuse bouche Jan 2014 #281

You can't count on people to remain where they were before marriage either. Chan790 Jan 2014 #51

Refusal to have kids is a justifiable reason for divorce according to the Church catbyte Jan 2014 #109

That might be for an annulment, but never a divorce. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #127

Apart from an unhappy marriage, it sounds like he made the right call... ReasonableToo Jan 2014 #111

So true. And sometimes a spouse will lie beforehand. laundry_queen Jan 2014 #267

That is true marions ghost Jan 2014 #303

He gave hints laundry_queen Jan 2014 #304

You prove my suspicions correct marions ghost Jan 2014 #309

oh yeah, I know all about NPD now laundry_queen Jan 2014 #322

She has a great annulment case. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #296

That's going to hurt if they love each other and are suited in other ways eridani Jan 2014 #27

Mother/Father Nature gave us weird bodies. But we're stuck with them. randome Jan 2014 #17

She's not ordering you not to have a child. Heidi Jan 2014 #18

This is part of what makes abortion a difficult issue. freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #23

with all due respect: geek tragedy Jan 2014 #48

+1 nt Javaman Jan 2014 #79

+1 redqueen Jan 2014 #95

At the end of the day his role is not authority, but advisory. PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #104

"The day" in question is childbirth, so I fully agree. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #110

We're not talking about abortion. freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #123

Genetically, and legally, that fetus is both parents adigal Jan 2014 #141

Genetically, duh. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #145

So why does he have to pay support if he doesn't want the child? adigal Jan 2014 #148

Because it's in the best interest of the child. He's not allowed to financially geek tragedy Jan 2014 #150

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #154

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #157

I love when people have to curse at others because they lose arguments. adigal Jan 2014 #159

I'm not the one lying about whether the law gives a man the geek tragedy Jan 2014 #164

If you grow up, and can act respectfully, I would discuss this further adigal Jan 2014 #166

heh, please proceed, please provide evidence for your assertion geek tragedy Jan 2014 #168

And you want it all one way. No responsibility whatsoever for men. kcr Jan 2014 #171

And why the "duh"? Are you incapable of having a discussion adigal Jan 2014 #149

Because everyone over the age of 9 knows how reproduction in geek tragedy Jan 2014 #152

Yes. You fool around, you get pregnant. adigal Jan 2014 #156

Abortion is legal in the United States now, just like women geek tragedy Jan 2014 #161

do you act like a condescending jerk with your students? Scout Jan 2014 #162

No, just with people who curse at me on the Internet adigal Jan 2014 #165

better question is why are you pushing anti-choice propaganda by claiming geek tragedy Jan 2014 #167

Choice should be for both parents if the man is legally responsible adigal Jan 2014 #170

Your belief that a man should have control over a woman's body geek tragedy Jan 2014 #172

I believe a man should have some say, maybe not the final say, adigal Jan 2014 #176

he does have 50% of the say once there is a child and 50% geek tragedy Jan 2014 #177

"some say" Scout Jan 2014 #191

If the man doesn't want a child, amuse bouche Jan 2014 #246

Same with a woman ? (nt) The Straight Story Jan 2014 #355

Is it women who have to worry about the other partner getting pregnant kcr Jan 2014 #360

The man is financially responsible, not legally, for the child. Simple legalese. uppityperson Jan 2014 #203

not defending anything, asking a question Scout Jan 2014 #169

You know, this place is so uncivil and I don't like being cursed at adigal Jan 2014 #173

maybe you should head over to Free Republic where your fellow forced birthers and anti-choice geek tragedy Jan 2014 #175

I was causing trouble for them over years ago! adigal Jan 2014 #178

I don't think you're a forced birther and you have a point OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #224

A child has a right to be supported by both parents PotatoChip Jan 2014 #329

I'm just saying OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #332

That is an awfully selfish position to take, in my opinion. PotatoChip Jan 2014 #341

Selfish? OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #342

The child deserves to be financially supported by both parents. Period (nt) PotatoChip Jan 2014 #343

But whether the father OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #344

snort Scout Jan 2014 #190

adigal is a forced birther and anti-choice--thinks that if a man gets a woman pregnant geek tragedy Jan 2014 #174

Who is "their"? Have I been promoted to the royal "we"? adigal Jan 2014 #179

I do not know your gender, ergo the neutral term. It's a deficiency of the English language geek tragedy Jan 2014 #185

Aw, she's starting to pick on your grammar. kcr Jan 2014 #184

LOL Scout Jan 2014 #187

And she's not even entirely correct kcr Jan 2014 #189

Sorry, but in the end it's the woman's body and her decision... cynatnite Jan 2014 #125

She agreed to take his opinion into consideration when she married him. nt freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #128

I am sure she is taking his opinion into consideration. She just isn't following it. As is her right Squinch Jan 2014 #143

I had this problem with someone once, "you asked my opinion but didn't do what I advised". Well, yes uppityperson Jan 2014 #204

I meant about having children, not generally. freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #242

Look, chunkhead, you have no idea if it's your baby (if you're a man) elehhhhna Jan 2014 #282

What the f*** are you talking about? nt freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #291

Whose body is the fetus in? another_liberal Jan 2014 #26

None whatsoever MrScorpio Jan 2014 #28

This one is too easy.. sendero Jan 2014 #29

I think I missed addressing Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #30

Again, I will clarify. she wants a child. . .not now though. I accept. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #31

Is this thread going the way you thought it would? kcr Jan 2014 #36

Well, I get that. No one should ever be forced to have a child, not even you. Phentex Jan 2014 #41

This is not abstract. I'm sorry people here are making it so. mainer Jan 2014 #96

THE PATIENCE YOU LEARN FROM WAITING WILL Ilsa Jan 2014 #98

She's not the only woman on earth, after all. eShirl Jan 2014 #32

My thoughts too. B Calm Jan 2014 #34

I understand how you would feel. Inkfreak Jan 2014 #33

I think we can have a role, to offer our thoughts. riqster Jan 2014 #35

I had my last son at 41. bemildred Jan 2014 #38

Go find a surrogate mother TransitJohn Jan 2014 #39

None, because it is her body get the red out Jan 2014 #40

In a healthy relationship Bettie Jan 2014 #42

The decision to reproduce should always be a mutual one. MineralMan Jan 2014 #43

It's only "simple" if the one wanting a child is okay with not having one... polichick Jan 2014 #90

Husbands should be involved equally in family planning. Cleita Jan 2014 #44

again, the discussion happened. the answer is "not now. soon, but not now." Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #46

Then you have your answer. She has consented to have children when she's ready, if she's being Cleita Jan 2014 #47

I will say this much get the red out Jan 2014 #283

men have absolute control over their sperm geek tragedy Jan 2014 #45

There's two cases here jollyreaper2112 Jan 2014 #50

Men do get screwed either way adigal Jan 2014 #144

what's ABSURD is your belief Scout Jan 2014 #180

And it's absurd to,force a man who doesn't want a child to have to pay adigal Jan 2014 #182

then he should be more careful where he leaves his sperm. Scout Jan 2014 #194

The man made his decision when his sperm left his body. jeff47 Jan 2014 #239

IMHO, since you and she are married, this is something you both need to discuss BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #52

You don't. You're not having the baby. Arkana Jan 2014 #53

The man has the same right as the woman 1awake Jan 2014 #54

It all depends on whether you hold to complete human rights. ananda Jan 2014 #55

Wait five years and adopt a five year old snooper2 Jan 2014 #56

Skimming the responses there is one thing missing IMO Mira Jan 2014 #57

Is that not true for the dad as well? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #59

Right with the huge exception that they Mira Jan 2014 #68

It's not just pipi_k Jan 2014 #65

Personally, I don't think that abortion is about parenting. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #58

It's her choice to become pregnant or not. It's your choice to stay or not. rug Jan 2014 #60

It's entirely her call. However... Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #61

That should not factor into it kcr Jan 2014 #67

Well,yeah, it _should_ be discussed in advance. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #70

Human beings are funny that way kcr Jan 2014 #71

As long as one body cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #62

If your wife is saying "not now, soon," then I would suggest that you talk to her about msanthrope Jan 2014 #63

IMO, if one party pipi_k Jan 2014 #64

This message was self-deleted by its author Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #66

Maybe married couples could abduct and forcibly impregnate breeding-age women. Orrex Jan 2014 #69

You said divorce is out of the question Beringia Jan 2014 #72

That assumes that he knew his plans re: children prior to marriage Orrex Jan 2014 #74

A man should make his wish known BEFORE he sleeps with a woman fadedrose Jan 2014 #73

I was in the reverse of the OP's situation. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #86

You did the right Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #99

It sucked, real hard. I'm still not certain I did the right thing. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #100

Divorce your wife and get a woman who wants to have children. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #78

Wow, that was easy to say, wasn't it? cynatnite Jan 2014 #119

So it's just better for him to resent her later? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #120

It is a big deal, but to arbitrarily toss out a marriage... cynatnite Jan 2014 #121

"only option"? They can wait, see if minds are changed later. He can be involved with other children uppityperson Jan 2014 #205

Yeah, live a life of "maybe". Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #206

Since the OP said he is fine doing that, yes, it is great advice. Glad you agree. uppityperson Jan 2014 #208

Yes, it's always nice to have a spouse you absolutely resent. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #214

Uh huh. He said he is fine waiting. So nice of you to be so concerned for others. Bless your little uppityperson Jan 2014 #215

Yeah, then what happens 5, 10, 20 years down the road? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #217

And he has you to tell him whether to be happy and content. How sweet for you to take that on. uppityperson Jan 2014 #219

Look, if people don't actually want to hear our opinions, Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #225

"I'm curious how much fathers and husbands matter in family planning"=advise him to get a divorce? uppityperson Jan 2014 #228

That wasn't his question. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #235

"get a divorce" doesn'tanswer the question of "how much say does a man...have" at all. Nope. uppityperson Jan 2014 #243

If he's not getting what he wants in the marriage, then yes, it's a great answer. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #248

And since he says he is fine with waiting, well, you MUST know best, after all! Right? uppityperson Jan 2014 #249

Hypothetical question. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #80

Many have and had regret from both of the couple .... fadedrose Jan 2014 #82

Then I guess the man better find a way to get pregnant and give birth. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #83

You have to think about the child. If a woman is the least bit hesitant or reluctant Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #84

Adding onto the discussion: as a grandparent, I'd mourn an aborted grandchild. mainer Jan 2014 #85

Are most abortions announced to one's in-laws? WinkyDink Jan 2014 #126

No, but if I discovered later that I'd lost a grandchild to abortion mainer Jan 2014 #286

I had an abortion when I was 16. It hurt my father deeply, but it was what was best for me liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #181

Few of the responses take into account the deep and aching emotions mainer Jan 2014 #87

It's not that they aren't taking it into account kcr Jan 2014 #116

"the decision to abort should be made with thought and deep reflection" TBF Jan 2014 #198

When I was in medical school, I assisted at abortions mainer Jan 2014 #287

One example does not a trend make ... TBF Jan 2014 #289

One example is enough to make my point. mainer Jan 2014 #300

I didn't use the word "always" - TBF Jan 2014 #301

You said: "what makes you think it WOULDN'T be thought out?" mainer Jan 2014 #302

No... she very obviously did NOT want a baby for many years, and knew it. bettyellen Jan 2014 #314

The man can make the call as soon as he gestates the fetus. jeff47 Jan 2014 #88

It always seemed like a crazy system to me. Arugula Latte Jan 2014 #94

I think we all know how this thread will go ... 1000words Jan 2014 #89

I think in an ideal situation Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #93

The main reason I divorced my first husband LiberalEsto Jan 2014 #97

the use of another's body is not something we have rights over La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #101

It isn't very difficult to convince a woman to have a child LittleBlue Jan 2014 #102

I am 64 and deliberately childless, and none of your reasoning applies to me. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #131

Did I say that my reasoning applied to you? nt LittleBlue Jan 2014 #132

defensive much? n/t Scout Jan 2014 #134

You've replied twice and call me defensive LittleBlue Jan 2014 #137

:shrug: i've got nothing to be defensive about Scout Jan 2014 #138

You said you were irked by my reply LittleBlue Jan 2014 #142

same here Scout Jan 2014 #133

Most women? Texasgal Jan 2014 #210

The "vote"--if you will--is always Two to One in favor of the woman. MADem Jan 2014 #103

For my part, none. Although we can discuss it, the ultimate decision will always be hers and hers al LanternWaste Jan 2014 #105

It seems like others have mentioned, paragraph 3 is the heart of the OP. Xyzse Jan 2014 #112

Husbands don't matter in her decision to get pregnant and give birth. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #114

hopefully you've discussed the reasons that she's not ready to be a mother ReasonableToo Jan 2014 #115

Good luck with such a tough issue... onpatrol98 Jan 2014 #117

They matter as much as the relationship allows... cynatnite Jan 2014 #118

The answer, hands down.... defacto7 Jan 2014 #129

There will never be equal control over reproductive matters... Deep13 Jan 2014 #130

Sounds more personal than philosophical. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #135

none. try adopting if you want a child Motown_Johnny Jan 2014 #136

After my second child, I just knew I couldn't handle anymore. I didn't realize how hard it would be liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #147

There is no practical way to make that work Taitertots Jan 2014 #155

"Again, I am not one of these men's movement assholes" - Yet you want control over anothers body? Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #163

Someone not me, because if you read. . .I AM SUPPORTING HER DECISION Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #213

oh... You just wanted to see if others here supported MRA bullshit... Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #218

No, it was a question. I am so glad I left the States seven years ago. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #220

Yeah... An interesting question... Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #221

Hey, he said he supports his OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #226

Non-sense. The OP presented MRA bullshit as though it were a point worthy of debate Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #231

Nonsense back at you! OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #251

Can you not read? Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #255

You obviously haven't read my responses in this thread OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #268

So... You think ownership of another person is some philosophical idea with merit Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #270

I didn't take it as is it ok OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #324

Yet... You think it is a topic worthy of debate? Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #326

For God's sake OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #331

The question is simple... And very hard to misunderstand. I'll put it here again Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #333

I just said if I misunderstood his intent OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #339

No need for it? I think the OP got exactly what he was after. kcr Jan 2014 #275

I did not take it as a question about control OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #327

If he wanted to ask how much should a man's feelings be taken into consideration kcr Jan 2014 #328

Perhaps OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #335

For one thing, I don't' see where he clarified it kcr Jan 2014 #340

Nonsense. There is no room for debate this "philosophical idea" of controlling women's reproduction bettyellen Jan 2014 #292

Again OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #325

I understand what you mean OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #229

did you miss the part where he said he "almost completely" agrees, LOL? there is no almost pregnant bettyellen Jan 2014 #347

Well I really hope he doesn't think that way OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #352

he put a persons right for control of their own body up for debate- and is angry that he was bettyellen Jan 2014 #353

Bingo kcr Jan 2014 #223

"I hope it's debated honestly and respectfully" Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #237

Of course. kcr Jan 2014 #238

Sorry, this got a bit hijacked and less than civil adigal Jan 2014 #183

someone cursed???!!!? on the INTERNET??? be still my heart. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #186

lol Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #193

hmmmmm, seems to me you've been somewhat less than civil yourself Scout Jan 2014 #196

No, it got hikacked by a forced birther MadrasT Jan 2014 #211

It isn't "fair" or equal, pregnancy, childbearing, child raising. uppityperson Jan 2014 #207

One Would Think That This Would Be Discussed BEFORE Marraige... WillyT Jan 2014 #209

When medical science figures out a way to extract a fetus without harming the mother, we get a voice Xithras Jan 2014 #216

Honestly? Aerows Jan 2014 #227

Woman's body. Woman's choice. Period. nt valerief Jan 2014 #233

AS a a Dad myself, I get where you are coming from... Adrahil Jan 2014 #234

I understand that. Which is how I felt at the beginning. I just wanted to see if I wasn't alone. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #261

Everyone agreed that you had every right to divorce her if you wanted a kid, but daring to ask liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #285

did you discuss having children before you were married? DesertFlower Jan 2014 #241

DesertFlower, can I ask you an un-related question... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #245

i guess you could call it a gut feeling. DesertFlower Jan 2014 #256

Legally, absolutely none, and that's the way it ought to be... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #244

"Honestly and respectfully"! Bonobo Jan 2014 #247

From the responses I've been getting, I tend to agree. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #259

too bad he is not assimilated enough to shake off the rude combative attitude, ha ha. bettyellen Jan 2014 #320

Having taken care of literally thousands of women during childbirth over the years... Butterbean Jan 2014 #250

Agree with everything you say laundry_queen Jan 2014 #269

Huge hugs to you. Butterbean Jan 2014 #310

The woman faces the possibility of dying. You do not. Therefore the decision rests with her riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #252

You married a woman 11 years younger than you. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #264

I married a woman younger than me because most of the women I've met my age are either Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #265

I didn't say you were, in fact I assumed that that is out of the question. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #266

Thug, LOL? Are you attempting to pepper this conversation with the insults du jour at DU? bettyellen Jan 2014 #294

No, said DU'er is responding to another DU'er whose name is "Thug". KittyWampus Jan 2014 #308

Oh, LOL. I had noticed that they picked up "buddy" from a post I wrote on another thread bettyellen Jan 2014 #311

If you want a child and your wife doesn't, then find someone else Crunchy Frog Jan 2014 #271

Simple, pair yourself with someone who wants the same things that you do. eom mfcorey1 Jan 2014 #273

Zero RedstDem Jan 2014 #276

It is about the right to one's own body LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #293

None, because it isn't your body. Marr Jan 2014 #297

The Male Half RobinA Jan 2014 #298

Honestly and respectfully? JTFrog Jan 2014 #306

Not a philosophical question. It's reality. She says "No" or it kiranon Jan 2014 #307

The decision to endure childbirth is the woman's choice. hamsterjill Jan 2014 #316

NONE. The end. GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #336

I am rather ferociously pro-choice. My husband is, too. calimary Jan 2014 #345

Fathers and husbands matter, BUT LWolf Jan 2014 #346

Zero. Iggo Jan 2014 #348

NO ONE has the right to force any woman to bear a child against her wishes. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #350

I had a client who did NOT want children, but his wife did, and her kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #351

If one parent wants a child and the other dosen't, then don't have the child. The parent who 1monster Jan 2014 #354

Biology booley Jan 2014 #366

You cannot force someone to be pregnant... Not for one day, not for nine months... Not at all. targetpractice Jan 2014 #367

Now about we put control of your body up for political debate? BainsBane Jan 2014 #371