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marions ghost

(19,841 posts)

309. You prove my suspicions correct

Fri Jan 24, 2014, 05:28 PM

Jan 2014

my NPD radar was up even before you elaborated...

Narcissists like having children "as an extension of themselves"--I think so but then when the kids grow older, if they're not submissive and constantly admiring, the kids get hated on. (Those kids usually have a good chance of escaping from it, because they see the pathology). Or, in some families the kids are trained to be narcissists also and don't see it as pathology--for example, Dubya. The whole Bu*h family is a mutually supportive den of Narcissists.

"always hoping for a boy" ...
Some men do take out their disappointment at having girls on the mother and the daughters--they should be ashamed. You rarely hear of a woman disappointed that she has only boys--she's usually OK with it. (Not asking him to "be a girl"--asking him to be a father to humans...duh) That statement alone tells a lot about him.

Others can learn from your story. You will raise those girls right Pretty safe to say you are lucky to be out of this marriage. I think you've got his number. Glad you have lots of support in this view. The worst is when others don't understand that life with a Narcissist /sociopath can be a living hell. They can make you feel like you're the crazy one. And they are often such good actors you can't tell what they're really thinking at all. Even after a long period of time they don't usually change all that much. The pattern is not very curable. The Narcissist usually refuses to recognize their affliction.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 OP

you're asking if the man has some right to order her to bear a child? fishwax Jan 2014 #1

Bottom line: none. Ilsa Jan 2014 #2

+1 nt Javaman Jan 2014 #77

Didn't have to read any farther Egnever Jan 2014 #122

Pregnancy is risky and uncomfortable. Labor is agony. And women bear the brunt of the work Warpy Jan 2014 #160

Not to mention who will bear the brunt of the childcare. nt kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #188

If she wants a baby and he doesn't, what then? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #279

You're asking me to solve this problem? Ilsa Jan 2014 #295

No. Just getting some opinions, OK? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #330

My guess is he shouldn't ejaculate into her. PassingFair Jan 2014 #318

Yep. TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #334

None whatsoever (regarding your question in the third paragraph). demmiblue Jan 2014 #3

When a man gaspee Jan 2014 #4

Exactly the phrase that came to my mind - irreconcilable difference ReasonableToo Jan 2014 #108

That�there...^^^^^ MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #337

Whose body will bear this hypothetical child? BlueMTexpat Jan 2014 #5

I wish I could tell you shenmue Jan 2014 #6

This message was self-deleted by its author Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #7

If you're ready to climb Mt. Everest Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #8

Exactly. Very well put. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #9

I think the OP is confusing Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #13

Yes. Pretty much this. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #49

The final decision is ALWAYS the woman. Always. No exception. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #10

Tough fucking shit? Classy! Nice civil response! LOL, angry a lot? nt Logical Jan 2014 #75

Nope, but thanks for your concern!! PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #76

There are individuals here with a vested interest in ensuring that NO discussion of this nature ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #107

Good point! nt Logical Jan 2014 #113

Super cute how you 2 hone in on one response in the whole thread. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #124

It's the truth, though Aerows Jan 2014 #230

This is a great comment. bravenak Jan 2014 #240

But that child is genetically the father's also adigal Jan 2014 #139

And you'd be for forcing her to have the child? Okey dokey. Squinch Jan 2014 #140

Say the man doesn't want a child? adigal Jan 2014 #146

What makes you think I'd be forcing him to support the child? Squinch Jan 2014 #151

huzzah! Scout Jan 2014 #153

I'ts absurd and illogical to hold a child responsible for actions he/she had no control over kcr Jan 2014 #158

If the man doesn't want a child he shouldn't have one - TBF Jan 2014 #195

now , in the spirit of the discussion Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #253

Right - TBF Jan 2014 #272

To be fair kcr Jan 2014 #321

If a man doesn't want a child, then the man needs to keep it in his pants notadmblnd Jan 2014 #278

This was alerted on JustAnotherGen Jan 2014 #197

lol, thanks! PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #199

I can't believe JustAnotherGen Jan 2014 #200

Ignore also works if my foul-mouth offends one's delicate sensibilities. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #201

Yep. Iggo Jan 2014 #349

Why would you want to have a child with someone who is not ready to parent? Heidi Jan 2014 #11

Um, but divorce the current wife, yes? nt justiceischeap Jan 2014 #12

Clearly, yes. Heidi Jan 2014 #14

I totally agree justiceischeap Jan 2014 #15

Well, he says, "She is not ready to be a mother." Heidi Jan 2014 #16

Exactly. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #19

No. Don't pass judgement. I respect her decision and am waiting until she is ready to pursue a Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #20

I didn't read Heidi's response as passing judgement, but stating facts. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #21

It is, but I accept. I just turned 35. I can wait a little longer if she wants to wait. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #22

I (sort of) understand. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #25

Perhaps a pet? 2naSalit Jan 2014 #81

why would you follow some parts of the culture (staying together if miserable) and not others... bettyellen Jan 2014 #92

Nice ethnocentric attitude. Culture is already fucked up according to me Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #263

Bullshit- you're doing a cafeteria version of the Chinese culture, so no reason to feel bound to it. bettyellen Jan 2014 #290

Is this a change of heart? Did you discuss this before you married? MADem Jan 2014 #106

"Chinese culture is very specific on marriage and divorce" amuse bouche Jan 2014 #236

Screw you, buddy. You have no idea what you are talking about Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #257

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #280

I'd be pissed if my husband posted my real name and email address online on some forum. JTFrog Jan 2014 #305

if you sre in the US Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #254

I'm not in the US. I'm in China. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #258

oh that makes sense then Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #262

I'm not passing judgment. You asked the question Heidi Jan 2014 #24

So.... what is your opinion? boston bean Jan 2014 #37

will you respect it if she chooses never to bear a child? she may expect to be ready someday... bettyellen Jan 2014 #91

Yes. . .I will. However, knowing Chinese culture and the overwhelming desire for Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #192

No, it's the height of ignorance to assume every woman wants to bear children�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #202

Okay. . .buddy. I am an American. If I call my wife a "girl," she will scream she is not Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #212

Well aren't you just the boss of DU kcr Jan 2014 #222

When you live here as long as I have, talk to me. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #260

Given what I've seen of your expertise in this thread kcr Jan 2014 #274

Whatever makes your jiggle wiggle. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #284

I'll admit, I'm no expert myself kcr Jan 2014 #299

I love the part about how he loves her because she totally spoils him, as if solicitous servicing bettyellen Jan 2014 #312

I thought the same thing kcr Jan 2014 #313

and WTF with all the- "I'm just posing a question" about a repulsive idea- not that I have ANY skin bettyellen Jan 2014 #315

I know. So transparent. kcr Jan 2014 #317

the funny twist is- "I am so assimilated into this backward culture it is not my fault�" bettyellen Jan 2014 #319

Did you see the post kcr Jan 2014 #323

and the weird comment- go ahead and contact her- it's futile! Bwaaah ha ha ha *twirls mustache* bettyellen Jan 2014 #338

QQ numbers are not phone numbers. God in heaven, I am so glad I left the States if this Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #356

Oh, excuse me, QQ number. That's different kcr Jan 2014 #357

You made the assumption I am mistreating her and saying "if you could, you'd tell her to run Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #359

Again kcr Jan 2014 #361

It's called "calling a bluff." Good God, they give out their QQ numbers to complete strangers Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #362

In all of China? Wow! kcr Jan 2014 #364

They also do selective abortions, which is why there are more boys than girls in China Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #363

I have actually heard about the more boys than girls in China kcr Jan 2014 #365

Ah, you are American, which explains why you do not try to respect the culture of those you're bettyellen Jan 2014 #288

I live in China. How can I not respect their culture? Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #358

I was noting you hand't picked up the Asian extra polite style of interaction, and instead insult bettyellen Jan 2014 #368

why did you post all these racial slurs here? you are not ignorant of American culture as to think bettyellen Jan 2014 #369

We're just a bunch of dumb old Americans kcr Jan 2014 #370

Not every woman Aerows Jan 2014 #232

Women are human beings gollygee Jan 2014 #277

"This is different than men in China who will force the child on their wives" amuse bouche Jan 2014 #281

You can't count on people to remain where they were before marriage either. Chan790 Jan 2014 #51

Refusal to have kids is a justifiable reason for divorce according to the Church catbyte Jan 2014 #109

That might be for an annulment, but never a divorce. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #127

Apart from an unhappy marriage, it sounds like he made the right call... ReasonableToo Jan 2014 #111

So true. And sometimes a spouse will lie beforehand. laundry_queen Jan 2014 #267

That is true marions ghost Jan 2014 #303

He gave hints laundry_queen Jan 2014 #304

You prove my suspicions correct marions ghost Jan 2014 #309

oh yeah, I know all about NPD now laundry_queen Jan 2014 #322

She has a great annulment case. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #296

That's going to hurt if they love each other and are suited in other ways eridani Jan 2014 #27

Mother/Father Nature gave us weird bodies. But we're stuck with them. randome Jan 2014 #17

She's not ordering you not to have a child. Heidi Jan 2014 #18

This is part of what makes abortion a difficult issue. freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #23

with all due respect: geek tragedy Jan 2014 #48

+1 nt Javaman Jan 2014 #79

+1 redqueen Jan 2014 #95

At the end of the day his role is not authority, but advisory. PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #104

"The day" in question is childbirth, so I fully agree. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #110

We're not talking about abortion. freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #123

Genetically, and legally, that fetus is both parents adigal Jan 2014 #141

Genetically, duh. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #145

So why does he have to pay support if he doesn't want the child? adigal Jan 2014 #148

Because it's in the best interest of the child. He's not allowed to financially geek tragedy Jan 2014 #150

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #154

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #157

I love when people have to curse at others because they lose arguments. adigal Jan 2014 #159

I'm not the one lying about whether the law gives a man the geek tragedy Jan 2014 #164

If you grow up, and can act respectfully, I would discuss this further adigal Jan 2014 #166

heh, please proceed, please provide evidence for your assertion geek tragedy Jan 2014 #168

And you want it all one way. No responsibility whatsoever for men. kcr Jan 2014 #171

And why the "duh"? Are you incapable of having a discussion adigal Jan 2014 #149

Because everyone over the age of 9 knows how reproduction in geek tragedy Jan 2014 #152

Yes. You fool around, you get pregnant. adigal Jan 2014 #156

Abortion is legal in the United States now, just like women geek tragedy Jan 2014 #161

do you act like a condescending jerk with your students? Scout Jan 2014 #162

No, just with people who curse at me on the Internet adigal Jan 2014 #165

better question is why are you pushing anti-choice propaganda by claiming geek tragedy Jan 2014 #167

Choice should be for both parents if the man is legally responsible adigal Jan 2014 #170

Your belief that a man should have control over a woman's body geek tragedy Jan 2014 #172

I believe a man should have some say, maybe not the final say, adigal Jan 2014 #176

he does have 50% of the say once there is a child and 50% geek tragedy Jan 2014 #177

"some say" Scout Jan 2014 #191

If the man doesn't want a child, amuse bouche Jan 2014 #246

Same with a woman ? (nt) The Straight Story Jan 2014 #355

Is it women who have to worry about the other partner getting pregnant kcr Jan 2014 #360

The man is financially responsible, not legally, for the child. Simple legalese. uppityperson Jan 2014 #203

not defending anything, asking a question Scout Jan 2014 #169

You know, this place is so uncivil and I don't like being cursed at adigal Jan 2014 #173

maybe you should head over to Free Republic where your fellow forced birthers and anti-choice geek tragedy Jan 2014 #175

I was causing trouble for them over years ago! adigal Jan 2014 #178

I don't think you're a forced birther and you have a point OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #224

A child has a right to be supported by both parents PotatoChip Jan 2014 #329

I'm just saying OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #332

That is an awfully selfish position to take, in my opinion. PotatoChip Jan 2014 #341

Selfish? OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #342

The child deserves to be financially supported by both parents. Period (nt) PotatoChip Jan 2014 #343

But whether the father OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #344

snort Scout Jan 2014 #190

adigal is a forced birther and anti-choice--thinks that if a man gets a woman pregnant geek tragedy Jan 2014 #174

Who is "their"? Have I been promoted to the royal "we"? adigal Jan 2014 #179

I do not know your gender, ergo the neutral term. It's a deficiency of the English language geek tragedy Jan 2014 #185

Aw, she's starting to pick on your grammar. kcr Jan 2014 #184

LOL Scout Jan 2014 #187

And she's not even entirely correct kcr Jan 2014 #189

Sorry, but in the end it's the woman's body and her decision... cynatnite Jan 2014 #125

She agreed to take his opinion into consideration when she married him. nt freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #128

I am sure she is taking his opinion into consideration. She just isn't following it. As is her right Squinch Jan 2014 #143

I had this problem with someone once, "you asked my opinion but didn't do what I advised". Well, yes uppityperson Jan 2014 #204

I meant about having children, not generally. freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #242

Look, chunkhead, you have no idea if it's your baby (if you're a man) elehhhhna Jan 2014 #282

What the f*** are you talking about? nt freedom fighter jh Jan 2014 #291

Whose body is the fetus in? another_liberal Jan 2014 #26

None whatsoever MrScorpio Jan 2014 #28

This one is too easy.. sendero Jan 2014 #29

I think I missed addressing Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #30

Again, I will clarify. she wants a child. . .not now though. I accept. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #31

Is this thread going the way you thought it would? kcr Jan 2014 #36

Well, I get that. No one should ever be forced to have a child, not even you. Phentex Jan 2014 #41

This is not abstract. I'm sorry people here are making it so. mainer Jan 2014 #96

THE PATIENCE YOU LEARN FROM WAITING WILL Ilsa Jan 2014 #98

She's not the only woman on earth, after all. eShirl Jan 2014 #32

My thoughts too. B Calm Jan 2014 #34

I understand how you would feel. Inkfreak Jan 2014 #33

I think we can have a role, to offer our thoughts. riqster Jan 2014 #35

I had my last son at 41. bemildred Jan 2014 #38

Go find a surrogate mother TransitJohn Jan 2014 #39

None, because it is her body get the red out Jan 2014 #40

In a healthy relationship Bettie Jan 2014 #42

The decision to reproduce should always be a mutual one. MineralMan Jan 2014 #43

It's only "simple" if the one wanting a child is okay with not having one... polichick Jan 2014 #90

Husbands should be involved equally in family planning. Cleita Jan 2014 #44

again, the discussion happened. the answer is "not now. soon, but not now." Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #46

Then you have your answer. She has consented to have children when she's ready, if she's being Cleita Jan 2014 #47

I will say this much get the red out Jan 2014 #283

men have absolute control over their sperm geek tragedy Jan 2014 #45

There's two cases here jollyreaper2112 Jan 2014 #50

Men do get screwed either way adigal Jan 2014 #144

what's ABSURD is your belief Scout Jan 2014 #180

And it's absurd to,force a man who doesn't want a child to have to pay adigal Jan 2014 #182

then he should be more careful where he leaves his sperm. Scout Jan 2014 #194

The man made his decision when his sperm left his body. jeff47 Jan 2014 #239

IMHO, since you and she are married, this is something you both need to discuss BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #52

You don't. You're not having the baby. Arkana Jan 2014 #53

The man has the same right as the woman 1awake Jan 2014 #54

It all depends on whether you hold to complete human rights. ananda Jan 2014 #55

Wait five years and adopt a five year old snooper2 Jan 2014 #56

Skimming the responses there is one thing missing IMO Mira Jan 2014 #57

Is that not true for the dad as well? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #59

Right with the huge exception that they Mira Jan 2014 #68

It's not just pipi_k Jan 2014 #65

Personally, I don't think that abortion is about parenting. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #58

It's her choice to become pregnant or not. It's your choice to stay or not. rug Jan 2014 #60

It's entirely her call. However... Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #61

That should not factor into it kcr Jan 2014 #67

Well,yeah, it _should_ be discussed in advance. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #70

Human beings are funny that way kcr Jan 2014 #71

As long as one body cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #62

If your wife is saying "not now, soon," then I would suggest that you talk to her about msanthrope Jan 2014 #63

IMO, if one party pipi_k Jan 2014 #64

This message was self-deleted by its author Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #66

Maybe married couples could abduct and forcibly impregnate breeding-age women. Orrex Jan 2014 #69

You said divorce is out of the question Beringia Jan 2014 #72

That assumes that he knew his plans re: children prior to marriage Orrex Jan 2014 #74

A man should make his wish known BEFORE he sleeps with a woman fadedrose Jan 2014 #73

I was in the reverse of the OP's situation. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #86

You did the right Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #99

It sucked, real hard. I'm still not certain I did the right thing. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #100

Divorce your wife and get a woman who wants to have children. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #78

Wow, that was easy to say, wasn't it? cynatnite Jan 2014 #119

So it's just better for him to resent her later? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #120

It is a big deal, but to arbitrarily toss out a marriage... cynatnite Jan 2014 #121

"only option"? They can wait, see if minds are changed later. He can be involved with other children uppityperson Jan 2014 #205

Yeah, live a life of "maybe". Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #206

Since the OP said he is fine doing that, yes, it is great advice. Glad you agree. uppityperson Jan 2014 #208

Yes, it's always nice to have a spouse you absolutely resent. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #214

Uh huh. He said he is fine waiting. So nice of you to be so concerned for others. Bless your little uppityperson Jan 2014 #215

Yeah, then what happens 5, 10, 20 years down the road? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #217

And he has you to tell him whether to be happy and content. How sweet for you to take that on. uppityperson Jan 2014 #219

Look, if people don't actually want to hear our opinions, Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #225

"I'm curious how much fathers and husbands matter in family planning"=advise him to get a divorce? uppityperson Jan 2014 #228

That wasn't his question. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #235

"get a divorce" doesn'tanswer the question of "how much say does a man...have" at all. Nope. uppityperson Jan 2014 #243

If he's not getting what he wants in the marriage, then yes, it's a great answer. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #248

And since he says he is fine with waiting, well, you MUST know best, after all! Right? uppityperson Jan 2014 #249

Hypothetical question. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #80

Many have and had regret from both of the couple .... fadedrose Jan 2014 #82

Then I guess the man better find a way to get pregnant and give birth. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #83

You have to think about the child. If a woman is the least bit hesitant or reluctant Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #84

Adding onto the discussion: as a grandparent, I'd mourn an aborted grandchild. mainer Jan 2014 #85

Are most abortions announced to one's in-laws? WinkyDink Jan 2014 #126

No, but if I discovered later that I'd lost a grandchild to abortion mainer Jan 2014 #286

I had an abortion when I was 16. It hurt my father deeply, but it was what was best for me liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #181

Few of the responses take into account the deep and aching emotions mainer Jan 2014 #87

It's not that they aren't taking it into account kcr Jan 2014 #116

"the decision to abort should be made with thought and deep reflection" TBF Jan 2014 #198

When I was in medical school, I assisted at abortions mainer Jan 2014 #287

One example does not a trend make ... TBF Jan 2014 #289

One example is enough to make my point. mainer Jan 2014 #300

I didn't use the word "always" - TBF Jan 2014 #301

You said: "what makes you think it WOULDN'T be thought out?" mainer Jan 2014 #302

No... she very obviously did NOT want a baby for many years, and knew it. bettyellen Jan 2014 #314

The man can make the call as soon as he gestates the fetus. jeff47 Jan 2014 #88

It always seemed like a crazy system to me. Arugula Latte Jan 2014 #94

I think we all know how this thread will go ... 1000words Jan 2014 #89

I think in an ideal situation Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #93

The main reason I divorced my first husband LiberalEsto Jan 2014 #97

the use of another's body is not something we have rights over La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #101

It isn't very difficult to convince a woman to have a child LittleBlue Jan 2014 #102

I am 64 and deliberately childless, and none of your reasoning applies to me. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #131

Did I say that my reasoning applied to you? nt LittleBlue Jan 2014 #132

defensive much? n/t Scout Jan 2014 #134

You've replied twice and call me defensive LittleBlue Jan 2014 #137

:shrug: i've got nothing to be defensive about Scout Jan 2014 #138

You said you were irked by my reply LittleBlue Jan 2014 #142

same here Scout Jan 2014 #133

Most women? Texasgal Jan 2014 #210

The "vote"--if you will--is always Two to One in favor of the woman. MADem Jan 2014 #103

For my part, none. Although we can discuss it, the ultimate decision will always be hers and hers al LanternWaste Jan 2014 #105

It seems like others have mentioned, paragraph 3 is the heart of the OP. Xyzse Jan 2014 #112

Husbands don't matter in her decision to get pregnant and give birth. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #114

hopefully you've discussed the reasons that she's not ready to be a mother ReasonableToo Jan 2014 #115

Good luck with such a tough issue... onpatrol98 Jan 2014 #117

They matter as much as the relationship allows... cynatnite Jan 2014 #118

The answer, hands down.... defacto7 Jan 2014 #129

There will never be equal control over reproductive matters... Deep13 Jan 2014 #130

Sounds more personal than philosophical. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #135

none. try adopting if you want a child Motown_Johnny Jan 2014 #136

After my second child, I just knew I couldn't handle anymore. I didn't realize how hard it would be liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #147

There is no practical way to make that work Taitertots Jan 2014 #155

"Again, I am not one of these men's movement assholes" - Yet you want control over anothers body? Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #163

Someone not me, because if you read. . .I AM SUPPORTING HER DECISION Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #213

oh... You just wanted to see if others here supported MRA bullshit... Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #218

No, it was a question. I am so glad I left the States seven years ago. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #220

Yeah... An interesting question... Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #221

Hey, he said he supports his OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #226

Non-sense. The OP presented MRA bullshit as though it were a point worthy of debate Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #231

Nonsense back at you! OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #251

Can you not read? Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #255

You obviously haven't read my responses in this thread OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #268

So... You think ownership of another person is some philosophical idea with merit Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #270

I didn't take it as is it ok OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #324

Yet... You think it is a topic worthy of debate? Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #326

For God's sake OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #331

The question is simple... And very hard to misunderstand. I'll put it here again Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #333

I just said if I misunderstood his intent OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #339

No need for it? I think the OP got exactly what he was after. kcr Jan 2014 #275

I did not take it as a question about control OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #327

If he wanted to ask how much should a man's feelings be taken into consideration kcr Jan 2014 #328

Perhaps OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #335

For one thing, I don't' see where he clarified it kcr Jan 2014 #340

Nonsense. There is no room for debate this "philosophical idea" of controlling women's reproduction bettyellen Jan 2014 #292

Again OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #325

I understand what you mean OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #229

did you miss the part where he said he "almost completely" agrees, LOL? there is no almost pregnant bettyellen Jan 2014 #347

Well I really hope he doesn't think that way OwnedByCats Jan 2014 #352

he put a persons right for control of their own body up for debate- and is angry that he was bettyellen Jan 2014 #353

Bingo kcr Jan 2014 #223

"I hope it's debated honestly and respectfully" Ohio Joe Jan 2014 #237

Of course. kcr Jan 2014 #238

Sorry, this got a bit hijacked and less than civil adigal Jan 2014 #183

someone cursed???!!!? on the INTERNET??? be still my heart. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #186

lol Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #193

hmmmmm, seems to me you've been somewhat less than civil yourself Scout Jan 2014 #196

No, it got hikacked by a forced birther MadrasT Jan 2014 #211

It isn't "fair" or equal, pregnancy, childbearing, child raising. uppityperson Jan 2014 #207

One Would Think That This Would Be Discussed BEFORE Marraige... WillyT Jan 2014 #209

When medical science figures out a way to extract a fetus without harming the mother, we get a voice Xithras Jan 2014 #216

Honestly? Aerows Jan 2014 #227

Woman's body. Woman's choice. Period. nt valerief Jan 2014 #233

AS a a Dad myself, I get where you are coming from... Adrahil Jan 2014 #234

I understand that. Which is how I felt at the beginning. I just wanted to see if I wasn't alone. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #261

Everyone agreed that you had every right to divorce her if you wanted a kid, but daring to ask liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #285

did you discuss having children before you were married? DesertFlower Jan 2014 #241

DesertFlower, can I ask you an un-related question... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #245

i guess you could call it a gut feeling. DesertFlower Jan 2014 #256

Legally, absolutely none, and that's the way it ought to be... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #244

"Honestly and respectfully"! Bonobo Jan 2014 #247

From the responses I've been getting, I tend to agree. Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #259

too bad he is not assimilated enough to shake off the rude combative attitude, ha ha. bettyellen Jan 2014 #320

Having taken care of literally thousands of women during childbirth over the years... Butterbean Jan 2014 #250

Agree with everything you say laundry_queen Jan 2014 #269

Huge hugs to you. Butterbean Jan 2014 #310

The woman faces the possibility of dying. You do not. Therefore the decision rests with her riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #252

You married a woman 11 years younger than you. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #264

I married a woman younger than me because most of the women I've met my age are either Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2014 #265

I didn't say you were, in fact I assumed that that is out of the question. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #266

Thug, LOL? Are you attempting to pepper this conversation with the insults du jour at DU? bettyellen Jan 2014 #294

No, said DU'er is responding to another DU'er whose name is "Thug". KittyWampus Jan 2014 #308

Oh, LOL. I had noticed that they picked up "buddy" from a post I wrote on another thread bettyellen Jan 2014 #311

If you want a child and your wife doesn't, then find someone else Crunchy Frog Jan 2014 #271

Simple, pair yourself with someone who wants the same things that you do. eom mfcorey1 Jan 2014 #273

Zero RedstDem Jan 2014 #276

It is about the right to one's own body LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #293

None, because it isn't your body. Marr Jan 2014 #297

The Male Half RobinA Jan 2014 #298

Honestly and respectfully? JTFrog Jan 2014 #306

Not a philosophical question. It's reality. She says "No" or it kiranon Jan 2014 #307

The decision to endure childbirth is the woman's choice. hamsterjill Jan 2014 #316

NONE. The end. GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #336

I am rather ferociously pro-choice. My husband is, too. calimary Jan 2014 #345

Fathers and husbands matter, BUT LWolf Jan 2014 #346

Zero. Iggo Jan 2014 #348

NO ONE has the right to force any woman to bear a child against her wishes. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #350

I had a client who did NOT want children, but his wife did, and her kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #351

If one parent wants a child and the other dosen't, then don't have the child. The parent who 1monster Jan 2014 #354

Biology booley Jan 2014 #366

You cannot force someone to be pregnant... Not for one day, not for nine months... Not at all. targetpractice Jan 2014 #367

Now about we put control of your body up for political debate? BainsBane Jan 2014 #371