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okaawhatever

(9,565 posts)
4. First, in 1994 when Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes we signed an agreement with Ukraine,
Fri Feb 28, 2014, 09:51 PM
Feb 2014

Russia and the UK. In it, all countries agreed to respect their sovereignty and borders. Russia has violated this. They claim that they're protecting their citizens, but it's simply not true. First of all, half of Ukraine isn't Russian. Only 17% of the population is ethnic Russian. More than that speak Russian, but there are many who are bilingual. In Crimea there are 58.2% ethnic Russians, 24% ethnic Ukranians and 12.1% Crimean Tatars. A survey in 2011 found that 72% said their nationality was Ukrainian. The idea that there is an overwhelming majority of Russians who want to secede and align with Russia is incorrect. Much of the disagreements between the various ethnic groups have been encouraged by governments. Putin desperately needs the port at Svestopol. Losing that would cause significant problems for Russia. The president before Yanukovich said they would not be renewing the lease w/Russia when it expired in 2017. Less than three months after Yanukovich took office he resigned the lease for 25 years. It was a very divisive action. The parliament broke out in a physical altercation. Russia has been very busy ginning up Russian nationalism trying to make sure Putin's interests were served.

It doesn't matter that it used to be Soviet Russia's property. It was legally given to Ukraine in 1954. If you want to look at history, Stalin drove the ethnic Crimean Tatars from the land where most died in exile.

There's a lot to it, but don't buy into the propaganda that it's Russia's property and they're entitled to it. If the Crimean people want to vote for secession in a year, let them do so. Considering only 58% are ethnic Russians it's not hard to imagine that 10% of them would want to remain with Ukraine, so even with 57% ethnic Russian's a vote to secede isn't a sure thing.

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Because it's a sovereign country that is vulnerable and has TwilightGardener Feb 2014 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author RKP5637 Feb 2014 #5
He was humiliated, and he's going to try to gain something to get his TwilightGardener Feb 2014 #7
Yep, agree again! n/t RKP5637 Feb 2014 #14
Because Russia is a police state. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #2
So ...uhm ...so they are just like us. L0oniX Feb 2014 #10
And sanctions beatings of gays Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #15
Remember it wasn't too long ago we sanctioned that too and still have a contingent among us who kelliekat44 Mar 2014 #34
You're right swilton Feb 2014 #28
For the same reason they just docked a spy ship in Havana nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #3
Russia is still also pretty mad about missile defense. TwilightGardener Feb 2014 #24
I am way way too cynical anymore nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #27
First, in 1994 when Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes we signed an agreement with Ukraine, okaawhatever Feb 2014 #4
IMO this should be an OP for greater visibility. You cut through all of the BS flying around! n/t RKP5637 Feb 2014 #6
Agreed nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #8
I have read close to a hundred articles from several countries on this, and several academic papers. okaawhatever Feb 2014 #11
and thank you for your efforts ... MindMover Feb 2014 #16
+1000. Thanks for that information. nt adirondacker Feb 2014 #23
Say please? ...or offer them Skittles. L0oniX Feb 2014 #9
She's going to ass kick you! nt grasswire Feb 2014 #12
Now we KNOW you are one of those appeasing liberals who can't be trusted with national security. woo me with science Feb 2014 #32
We stay out of it customerserviceguy Feb 2014 #13
The difference is that Czechoslovakia Jenoch Feb 2014 #18
Yes customerserviceguy Feb 2014 #21
Your comparison of the the U.S. and Ukraine Jenoch Feb 2014 #33
Would Iraq be in as much trouble as it is customerserviceguy Mar 2014 #35
We could intervene militarily. It worked ever so well in Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #17
If Putin had a nickel of ethics, he would not be allowing Ukraine to fall apart on his doorstep. randome Feb 2014 #19
Invading countries, invasions of privacy 1awake Feb 2014 #20
so did N and S Korea JI7 Feb 2014 #22
Because Ukrainians are not Russians. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #25
It seems rather hypocritical for us to be telling countries not to invade or intervene militarily quinnox Feb 2014 #26
It's just diplomatic posturing. We know that. They know that. Warpy Feb 2014 #29
Putin will always be involved in Ukraine pipoman Feb 2014 #30
John McCain would nuke em! n/t doc03 Feb 2014 #31
You know that about 10 years ago, they signed a treaty.... Adrahil Mar 2014 #36
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