Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Help me debunk this argument against raising the minimum wage.... [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)12. If they want to retain the $12 employees, pay them $14. And they'll still have seniority and not be
the first to be laid off, nor will they lose their benefits. The difference is benefits accured from time on the job: vacation, choice of days off; overtime, holidays and insurance. Raising the wage does not change those earned benefits.
There is no zero sum game here, that is Rush's mantra since the 1990s. WA state tied the minimum wage to the cost of living in 1998. That wage is now $9.32 and the jump to $10.00 a hour would have occured soon enough anyway.
The greater buying power of workers helped the economy, kept unemployment down; funded the state despite some deficits; allowed more social infrastructure that benefit all ages and levels of pay.
Here are some facts to use:
Highest Minimum-Wage State Washington Beats U.S. in Job Creation
When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the states minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasnt been borne out.
In the 15 years that followed, the states minimum wage climbed to $9.32 -- the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washingtons restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.
The debate is replaying on a national scale as Democrats led by President Barack Obama push for an increase in the $7.25-an-hour federal minimum, while opponents argue a raise would hurt those its intended to help by axing jobs for the lowest-skilled. Even if that proves true, Washingtons example shows that any such effects arent big enough to throw its economy and labor market off the tracks...
Its hard to see that the state of Washington has paid a heavy penalty for having a higher minimum wage than the rest of the country, said Gary Burtless, an economist at Brookings Institution who formerly was at the U.S. Labor Department.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-05/washington-shows-highest-minimum-wage-state-beats-u-s-with-jobs.html
Use this graphic and article:

What CBO Report? The State With The Highest Minimum Wage Is Adding Jobs.
If you thought that the hotly contested Congressional Budget Office report, suggesting that a higher minimum wage would reduce the number of jobs, would squelch any chance of raising it, think again.
President Obama ratcheted up the pressure today, speaking out in favor of a $10.10 federal minimum wage at a Connecticut rally with four New England Democratic governors who are pledging to push for the same in their respective states.
And he now has a silver bullet to debunk those conservatives using the report, which only offered an estimated range of possibilities, as proof that raising the minimum wage is a certain job-killer.
Washington State.
The home of the Super Bowl champions is also Americas minimum wage champion, with the highest state minimum wage of $9.32. The minimum is also indexed to inflation, so it will never lose purchasing power.
Today Bloomberg checked in on how the Evergreen States wage policy has impacted job growth and found that Washington State job growth beats the national average:
job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washingtons restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.
Bloomberg noted that even if conservatives have a point that higher minimum wages have some negative impact on job growth, Washingtons example shows that any such effects arent big enough to throw its economy and labor market off the tracks.
While the CBO did project a slight reduction in jobs, it also projected that 16.5 million Americans would have higher incomes with a $10.10 minimum wage, including and beyond those directly earning the minimum. (With a $9 minimum, 7.6 million would earn more.)
Considering the Washington State banked those bigger payrolls without experiencing any net job loss, it seems pretty short-sighted to pass on raising the minimum just because of a flimsy projection of minor job losses that isnt backed up by real world experience.
Republicans who think they can resist the drive for a higher minimum wage by waving the CBO report havent noticed that a higher minimum still polls phenomenally even after the reports release.
Common sense and real-world experience will beat an academic paper.
http://ourfuture.org/20140305/what-cbo-report-the-state-with-the-highest-minimum-wage-is-adding-jobs
One more story:

Re: low-paying WalMart:
Walmarts Greed Exposed: They Could Pay Employees $25,000/Year Without Raising Prices
A new Demos study has revealed that the only thing stopping Walmart from paying their employees $25,000 a year without raising prices is their ridiculous level of greed.
According to Demos, here is how Walmart could afford to pay their workers $25,000 a year without raising prices:
Walmarts business model reflects the narrow minded economic views of the Republican Party. By choosing to only share profits at the top, Walmart is calling the stockholders makers and their employees takers.
The Republican idea that a business has to raise prices if wages are raised is false. Companies like Walmart can afford to raise wages without raising prices if they choose to do so. Costco has proven both Republicans and Walmart wrong by paying a living wage and watching their profits soar. Customers have abandoned Walmart for Costco in 2013, because unlike Walmart, Costco supports raising the minimum wage.
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/11/19/walmarts-greed-exposed-pay-employees-25000year-raising-prices.html
Perhaps a little of that you can use in your discussion. Never submit to Republican theology about wages and business. Their economic theories are faith based, not scientifc and do not meet the smell test for good goverance. They support the politics of robber barons. They are wrong now and have always been.
There is no zero sum game here, that is Rush's mantra since the 1990s. WA state tied the minimum wage to the cost of living in 1998. That wage is now $9.32 and the jump to $10.00 a hour would have occured soon enough anyway.
The greater buying power of workers helped the economy, kept unemployment down; funded the state despite some deficits; allowed more social infrastructure that benefit all ages and levels of pay.
Here are some facts to use:
Highest Minimum-Wage State Washington Beats U.S. in Job Creation
When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the states minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasnt been borne out.
In the 15 years that followed, the states minimum wage climbed to $9.32 -- the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washingtons restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.
The debate is replaying on a national scale as Democrats led by President Barack Obama push for an increase in the $7.25-an-hour federal minimum, while opponents argue a raise would hurt those its intended to help by axing jobs for the lowest-skilled. Even if that proves true, Washingtons example shows that any such effects arent big enough to throw its economy and labor market off the tracks...
Its hard to see that the state of Washington has paid a heavy penalty for having a higher minimum wage than the rest of the country, said Gary Burtless, an economist at Brookings Institution who formerly was at the U.S. Labor Department.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-05/washington-shows-highest-minimum-wage-state-beats-u-s-with-jobs.html
Use this graphic and article:

What CBO Report? The State With The Highest Minimum Wage Is Adding Jobs.
If you thought that the hotly contested Congressional Budget Office report, suggesting that a higher minimum wage would reduce the number of jobs, would squelch any chance of raising it, think again.
President Obama ratcheted up the pressure today, speaking out in favor of a $10.10 federal minimum wage at a Connecticut rally with four New England Democratic governors who are pledging to push for the same in their respective states.
And he now has a silver bullet to debunk those conservatives using the report, which only offered an estimated range of possibilities, as proof that raising the minimum wage is a certain job-killer.
Washington State.
The home of the Super Bowl champions is also Americas minimum wage champion, with the highest state minimum wage of $9.32. The minimum is also indexed to inflation, so it will never lose purchasing power.
Today Bloomberg checked in on how the Evergreen States wage policy has impacted job growth and found that Washington State job growth beats the national average:
job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washingtons restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.
Bloomberg noted that even if conservatives have a point that higher minimum wages have some negative impact on job growth, Washingtons example shows that any such effects arent big enough to throw its economy and labor market off the tracks.
While the CBO did project a slight reduction in jobs, it also projected that 16.5 million Americans would have higher incomes with a $10.10 minimum wage, including and beyond those directly earning the minimum. (With a $9 minimum, 7.6 million would earn more.)
Considering the Washington State banked those bigger payrolls without experiencing any net job loss, it seems pretty short-sighted to pass on raising the minimum just because of a flimsy projection of minor job losses that isnt backed up by real world experience.
Republicans who think they can resist the drive for a higher minimum wage by waving the CBO report havent noticed that a higher minimum still polls phenomenally even after the reports release.
Common sense and real-world experience will beat an academic paper.
http://ourfuture.org/20140305/what-cbo-report-the-state-with-the-highest-minimum-wage-is-adding-jobs
One more story:

Re: low-paying WalMart:
Walmarts Greed Exposed: They Could Pay Employees $25,000/Year Without Raising Prices
A new Demos study has revealed that the only thing stopping Walmart from paying their employees $25,000 a year without raising prices is their ridiculous level of greed.
According to Demos, here is how Walmart could afford to pay their workers $25,000 a year without raising prices:
Now as another holiday season approaches, this research brief considers one way Walmart could meet the wage target its employees are calling for without raising prices. We find that if Walmart redirected the $7.6 billion it spends annually on repurchases of its own company stock, these funds could be used to give Walmarts low-paid workers a raise of $5.83 an hour, more than enough to ensure that all Walmart workers are paid a wage equivalent to at least $25,000 a year for full-time work.
Curtailing share buybacks would not harm the companys retail competitiveness or raise prices for consumers. In fact, some retail analysts have argued that by providing a substantial investment in the companys front-line workforce, higher pay could be expected to improve employee productivity and morale while reducing Walmarts expenses related to employee turnover.
With more money in their wallets, Walmart employees would likely spend a portion of the cash at Walmart itself, boosting the companys sales. Sales might also increase as customers benefit from an improved shopping environment.
Walmarts business model reflects the narrow minded economic views of the Republican Party. By choosing to only share profits at the top, Walmart is calling the stockholders makers and their employees takers.
The Republican idea that a business has to raise prices if wages are raised is false. Companies like Walmart can afford to raise wages without raising prices if they choose to do so. Costco has proven both Republicans and Walmart wrong by paying a living wage and watching their profits soar. Customers have abandoned Walmart for Costco in 2013, because unlike Walmart, Costco supports raising the minimum wage.
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/11/19/walmarts-greed-exposed-pay-employees-25000year-raising-prices.html
Perhaps a little of that you can use in your discussion. Never submit to Republican theology about wages and business. Their economic theories are faith based, not scientifc and do not meet the smell test for good goverance. They support the politics of robber barons. They are wrong now and have always been.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
22 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
If they want to retain the $12 employees, pay them $14. And they'll still have seniority and not be
freshwest
Mar 2014
#12
It's not a valid argument because it's predicated on a perceived inequality when none exists.
stopbush
Mar 2014
#10
Tell the idiot that more minimum wage people will be coming in to buy his product, because they
MADem
Mar 2014
#13
I would point out two things to them, first, refer them to EarlG's post today...
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#22