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Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
67. He's basically just being alarmist
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 08:45 PM
Mar 2014

Read this and think about the implications:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-09/tokyo-radiation-less-than-in-paris-three-years-after-meltdown.html

Note that the article also discusses highly contaminated areas, esp. to the NW of the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

He's not as nutty as a lot of them, but the reality is that he does know from his training what these readings mean, and the implications, whereas the average person doesn't. And the alarmists are convincing some people to do things that are harmful to their health.

As for what he's making up, start here:
http://fairewinds.org/media/fairewinds-videos/west-coast-radiation-exposure-risks

The linear no-dose threshold theory is just a theory, and it's a theory that hasn't been borne out by studies conducted in areas that have natural high doses of radiation. Nor has it been borne out in animal testing. It's a theory used to set environmental safety levels, though, for which purpose it works pretty well. And he has the education to know this.

What he's NOT telling the public in this video is that US background environmental levels aren't going to change as a result of the "plume", and therefore there is no reason to worry. He's lying by omission - AND HE KNOWS IT.

And again, this may gain a lot of readership and some funding, but it is causing actual harm to poor deluded dopes who are taking stuff that can harm them. Contrast his statements from those who are actually studying the radiation:
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5875/20140204/california-kelp-tested-fukushima-radiation-year-long-study.htm

If you want to read some of the actual work on that theory, try this search:
https://www.google.com/#q=linear+no+dose+threshold+evidence

http://www.radiographyonline.com/article/S1078-8174%2811%2900069-1/abstract

Here's a publicly available review article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663584/

What studies actually seem to be showing is something quite interesting. Not only does linear no-threshold theory not work, it appears that it really doesn't work, because animal studies designed to be very sensitive show that at low doses, very low doses may cause more damage than higher doses, because cell-protective effects kick in. This is similar to you getting a very low virus exposure - you would not notice any effects until viral particles increase enough to invoke an immune response.

Of course at high levels damage is observable. This might explain why surveys in the west don't seem to confirm much in the way of adverse effects from most low-dose medical uses, and world wide surveys haven't shown negative health effects in areas with naturally high levels of exposure. It's only when doses get so high as to overwhelm your natural defenses that the damage becomes evident. And since we are all exposed to radiation naturally, and since the radiation level on earth has been dropping steadily ever since life evolved, flying a lot turns out not to be an observable health risk.

So now we have something of a public health hazard created by rumor:
http://rt.com/news/british-columbia-fukushima-radiation-097/

The natural rebuttal to the critiques of linear threshold no-dose theory is that epidemiological studies are not sensitive enough to pick up very low rates of increased disease. That is true, but I have read some that do pick up risks such as low vegetable consumption, lack of exercise, and stress, for example. So some of the studies have been pretty damned sensitive.

People are making money selling radiation dectectors and potassium iodide. There's money in alarmism.

Btw, I think Gundersen's critiques about the safety of nuclear power plants are better founded.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I live on the Oregon coast Faux pas Mar 2014 #1
I'll assume you haven't contracted goiter Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #4
Potassium iodide is only for a worst case scenario for airborne iodine-133 flamingdem Mar 2014 #8
Drink miso soup, too. CrispyQ Mar 2014 #9
I didn't click on your links but... PearliePoo2 Mar 2014 #17
Like soup helps cure radiation sickness? longship Mar 2014 #37
There is no immediate danger RobertEarl Mar 2014 #75
When the source is radioactive iodine it does whopis01 Mar 2014 #77
The half life of iodine 131 is very short. longship Mar 2014 #11
You don't need to take potassium iodide, and you may make yourself sick doing it Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #16
Read all the posts replying to your intake of iodine. PearliePoo2 Mar 2014 #18
"been taking iodine since Fukushima". Why?...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #62
That's not very wise, as many have told you already. The State of Oregon regularly Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #92
so many opportunities for normal accidents/disasters reddread Mar 2014 #2
Arnie Gundersen is the best on this issue flamingdem Mar 2014 #10
I don't think he's very credible. longship Mar 2014 #13
What has he made up? Octafish Mar 2014 #21
He has made up lots of things zappaman Mar 2014 #29
Did you mix up your login? From your, uh, source... Octafish Mar 2014 #31
So you dismiss the guy with actual credentials Union Scribe Mar 2014 #35
I'd rather listen to somebody who doesn't have a stake in the game. Octafish Mar 2014 #38
Then stop listening to Arnie Union Scribe Mar 2014 #40
$300 an hour? Octafish Mar 2014 #43
What does that matter? He's got "skin in the game" Union Scribe Mar 2014 #44
Gunderson's not on TEPCO's payroll. Octafish Mar 2014 #46
+1 ! flamingdem Mar 2014 #52
rationalwiki! Rex Mar 2014 #58
Wow, quite the hit piece. eggplant Mar 2014 #41
rationalwiki is dead give away questionseverything Mar 2014 #53
His qualifications, for one thing. Union Scribe Mar 2014 #34
That must be why he gets called on as an expert witness. Octafish Mar 2014 #36
So, no actual rebuttal. Union Scribe Mar 2014 #39
What rebuttal? Octafish Mar 2014 #42
If misrepresenting one's training isn't lying Union Scribe Mar 2014 #47
So where does he misrepresent himself? Octafish Mar 2014 #48
Guess you missed it zappaman Mar 2014 #56
He's basically just being alarmist Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #67
Good post, but I have to address this: NuclearDem Mar 2014 #71
Now that is embarrassing. You are on a roll!! RobertEarl Mar 2014 #73
And that, ladies and gentlemen, NuclearDem Mar 2014 #76
...again CreekDog Mar 2014 #97
You're talking to a profession founded on a Big Lie... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #83
I really hope you have some proof of me having ties to the industry NuclearDem Mar 2014 #84
you <> "a profession" Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #85
So, you'd rather trust RE's "pronouncements on science" NuclearDem Mar 2014 #86
I've been involved PERSONALLY in the issue since 1974.... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #87
This bs part, makes your whole post stink, Yo RobertEarl Mar 2014 #74
Holy crap Batman! greiner3 Mar 2014 #25
A degree in physics. longship Mar 2014 #26
Just so we can compare expertiese... zeemike Mar 2014 #51
He has only operated a 100 watt research reactor. longship Mar 2014 #54
Some people just hate whistle blowers. zeemike Mar 2014 #59
The issue is where the science stands, not any one person. longship Mar 2014 #61
Well science knows that all radiation is harmful to living cells zeemike Mar 2014 #65
Science also knows about dose/response. longship Mar 2014 #66
And not all radiation is the same. zeemike Mar 2014 #68
No, but a west coast salmon would be tasty. longship Mar 2014 #69
Make sure it is not a Sockeye salmon. zeemike Mar 2014 #72
"Range" is where they are found, not that they all migrate that far. uppityperson Mar 2014 #82
Monopoly on Science (tm) Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #80
And the shill gambit. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #49
Like anyone would sign THOSE timecards... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #81
Agree with you. LeftOfWest Mar 2014 #30
He is attacked here, and many other places... longship Mar 2014 #50
40 yrs. experience knocked down by vague insults... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #79
Dude, who is your source? RobertEarl Mar 2014 #88
If Gunderson ever, by chance, came here unannounced and held a Q&A... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #89
I can picture the scattering RobertEarl Mar 2014 #90
If only Tepco listened to him and, while they could, rerouted the mountain spring water.... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #91
Y'know, when you think about it.... RobertEarl Mar 2014 #93
And counterproductive. That reroute would have been a hell of a lot cheaper... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #94
Yep. Arnie is the Real Deal... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #78
Think of all the radiation in the atmosphere cilla4progress Mar 2014 #3
another big win for Fresno reddread Mar 2014 #5
The Fresno Raisin Council should exploit this Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #7
Is that airborne? That isn't the concern now - it's precipitation flamingdem Mar 2014 #12
that is simply one of the highest, possibly the highest result from all monitors reddread Mar 2014 #14
Wha---THEY HAVEN"T DONE THAT YET???!!! librechik Mar 2014 #6
There hasn't been any to test yet. C_eh_N_eh_D_eh Mar 2014 #15
Actually, they have Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #19
thx, hard to believe nobody took the time... librechik Mar 2014 #20
It's already being done n2doc Mar 2014 #22
park ranger told me year ago kelp medeak Mar 2014 #28
Yup! A park ranger with a PhD in physics, no doubt. longship Mar 2014 #45
REMEMBER! It's not like the source and spigot has been shut off. PearliePoo2 Mar 2014 #23
Yes, that's why this scientist can't be sure we're "safe" flamingdem Mar 2014 #55
Any word on Alaskan sea food testing? ffr Mar 2014 #24
tons of pieces of bamboo on beach after big storm two days ago medeak Mar 2014 #27
Aren't they a little late to the party? Cleita Mar 2014 #32
How will you know it's safe? sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #33
Or you can pay attention to the science. longship Mar 2014 #57
I didn't get the impression sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #63
That's likely true. longship Mar 2014 #64
I agree of course. sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #96
There's no need to test. I read that right here on DU. No mention of any downside to testing. Scuba Mar 2014 #60
DU rec frwrfpos Mar 2014 #70
Woods Holes Crowdsourced ourradioactiveocean One_Life_To_Give Mar 2014 #95
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