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truedelphi

(32,324 posts)

144. Look, hundreds of eminent scientiss decided that the state of Calif should regulate gasoline to

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 08:45 PM

Mar 2014

Be "Cleaner" and "better in performance" for air quality and mileage, and to contain MTBE.

All those preeminent researchers and heads of university chemistry departments and of course lobbyists, and that is how we arrived at having the toxic element MTBE in our gasoline.

And the MTBE issue became a several years' long struggle of average citizens to undo what those in authority said had to be.

Now this.

Anyway, if you post something on line, you should have to offer up a name or two. The fact that someone appears before your county staff is meaningless.

Even PHD's and being awarded titles like "most eminent in the field" can be meaningless.

Nancy Balter was "most eminent" in the field of MTBE research, and when I interviewed her, she did not even know that MTBE breaks down into formaldehyde once it goes through an
automobile's combustion chamber. (Sort of like saying you' re a coffee expert, but admit to having never heard of the term "Caffeine.&quot But hey, she advocated for MTBE and got a lot of cushy jobs from industry after her helping them out so much.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 OP

they aren't like cigarettes and they aren't tobacco products. cali Mar 2014 #1

Exactly how are they not tobacco products? Is the nicotine artificial? CBGLuthier Mar 2014 #2

Tobacco isn't the only plant that has nicotine. Mariana Mar 2014 #7

Does the amount of nicotine in e-cigarettes continue the addiction? If not then why continue to pay Tikki Mar 2014 #60

Because they enjoy it. Mariana Mar 2014 #64

Here is the problem�we need statistics on how many e-cigarette users actually quit the nicotine... Tikki Mar 2014 #74

I think they shouldn't be sold to minors. Mariana Mar 2014 #79

I wonder if nicotine patches have become a fad�Stimulants have all levels of addiction... Tikki Mar 2014 #85

Must be a modern version of Sherlock HockeyMom Mar 2014 #128

What will you people do with legal Marijuana? HockeyMom Mar 2014 #133

It is a modern version. Mariana Mar 2014 #147

The nicotine addiction isn't the big problem healthwise...its the Tar and OTHER chemicals VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #111

Addiction is a problem�and it costs money and health to maintain�do we want another generation... Tikki Mar 2014 #134

Okay then.,....so is caffeine and so sugar. VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #136

Already stated�nicotine in a difficult addiction�it is highly addictive and difficult to wean from.. Tikki Mar 2014 #141

Actually, most major brands will not continue to burn like they used to. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #137

No that changed when they came under the purview of the FDA... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #138

I unfortunately still smoke and the Marlboro lights I buy will go out. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #139

thats them....and that is now.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #140

Yours did what? Continue to burn? A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #146

yes and all but 5 brands did so...until they came under FDA.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #156

Nicotine itself is not a carcinogen. DanTex Mar 2014 #13

Yes and no Sgent Mar 2014 #14

still and all though hfojvt Mar 2014 #20

No and no. DanTex Mar 2014 #21

We know it raises blood pressure Sgent Mar 2014 #31

That's true. DanTex Mar 2014 #41

Well, it doesn't exactly sound benign in the cancer area NoOneMan Mar 2014 #61

I'll settle for "no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in DanTex Mar 2014 #66

There is some evidence NoOneMan Mar 2014 #68

There's also evidence of beneficial health effects of nicotine. DanTex Mar 2014 #75

Even Crack and Heroin have a positive effect or two NoOneMan Mar 2014 #76

Those also have a lot of negative effects, beyond just a few ambivalent sentences in an abstract. DanTex Mar 2014 #77

Nicotine is found in some foods naturally Autumn Mar 2014 #30

When people say "the juice" with regards to truedelphi Mar 2014 #115

It's an oil that you mix flavors or nicotine in and vape. Autumn Mar 2014 #122

It is the actual consumed substance in an e-cig (or at least refillable ones). Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #126

I did not like the caramel coffee. To me it tastes burnt. Autumn Mar 2014 #149

No argument there. And many of the "tobacco" flavors taste like licking an ashtray. -nt Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #152

Isn't propylene glycol one of the ingredients in anti freeze? truedelphi Mar 2014 #159

antifreeze is ethylene glycol energumen Mar 2014 #178

Because it does not come from tobacco jberryhill Mar 2014 #33

Um..because there is no tobacco? SomethingFishy Mar 2014 #90

You are aware SoCalNative Mar 2014 #93

I would prefer a ban of all pharmaceutical advertising on television ... MindMover Mar 2014 #3

Part of it, not enough outrage nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #4

Yes, but without the commercials, how would I know what to ask my doctor about when hughee99 Mar 2014 #88

What a coincidence pinboy3niner Mar 2014 #94

Symptoms were generally mild and may include dry mouth, coma, blindness, and "fatal events". Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #101

The ones I've seen made for pot are designed to put a solid piece of bud into. herding cats Mar 2014 #5

Yes they are nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #8

Why they'd want to do that is beyond me. herding cats Mar 2014 #11

Because if I smoke my crack in one of these things nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #15

Maybe, I guess. herding cats Mar 2014 #18

I am just paraphrasing experts. I report in this case nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #22

What if the juice contains zero nicotine? RandiFan1290 Mar 2014 #24

According to county staff (heath and Human Services) nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #27

Where was the info coming from. To date, no comprehensive studies have been done on OregonBlue Mar 2014 #45

Well, since everybody loves anecdotal data nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #47

Will there be a full list of things that should be regulated as things they are not? cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #6

You will make light of it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #9

If he topic is not carcinogenic effect the tobacco analog is a game for cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #29

So let's cut to the chase nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #32

having just said I think they should be 18+... cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #39

Well it is easier to get ahead of the curve in public health nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #40

And I am all for telling them otherwise. cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #42

Well, you will be outvoted on this nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #44

I'm not sure your information is correct. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #67

Well if not intended it has resulted in this nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #70

I really don't have an issue with banning their use in indoor public spaces. Outdoors? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #71

Well for the same reason they don't want people smoking at the beach nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #72

So are plastic bottles, snack wrappers, disposable cups, soda cans.... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #78

And my local beaches have tightly and enforced regulations nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #80

We certainly wouldn't want roving bands of violent nicotine junkies disturbing the beach. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #97

Depends on what you put on that vaping device nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #106

So, your argument is fairly specious. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #112

No, that is not my argument nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #117

Don't forget disposable diapers zappaman Mar 2014 #81

Do you have a link for this? The angry bird vape? Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #46

Yup, and I did not think I would have to look for it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #48

Nadine! Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #49

So you think both the American Heart Association and Attorney General Beau Biden are lying? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #50

I'm asking for a link for a vaporizer with angry birds for sale. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #54

I am sorry, but I believe those who say it is a problem nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #59

I understand why they want to regulate them. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #63

Well, aparently ejuice monkeys, does not exist either nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #65

So is this a denial, or a non-denial denial? Codeine Mar 2014 #110

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, MONKEYS?!?!? Think of the children?!? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #185

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #192

lol. what the fuck ever. that company has far more integrity than you. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #194

You might want to hit a few Attorney Generals while you are at it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #197

"hit"? WTF are you talking about? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #198

Remember to include in your slander suit nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #204

I was talking about the company that YOU dragged into this thread, brainiac. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #207

Oh and here is the jacket showing the angry birds nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #114

Wait! So because people can buy customized accessories for their e-cig.... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #118

So the increase in youth using these devices is a conspiracy made up by the CDC? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #124

Of course their is an increase. There is also an increase in the # of adults using these devices. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #143

and we all should encourage their use nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #151

We should discrourage their use among minors Mariana Mar 2014 #160

Sorry, but I do not want vapors or smoke. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #162

omg, i literally lol'd at the hello kitty beer. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #184

Good Job Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #199

I do not know for what nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #201

Finding the link to the angry birds wrap. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #202

No, it was not me, it was several State Attorney Generals nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #206

*Attorneys General PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #208

Whatever, done for the day? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #217

So now you're Bill Frist? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #219

Nope, I am not, but you are into personal attacks I see nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #223

Promise? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #224

I agree sad-cafe Mar 2014 #182

example? krawhitham Mar 2014 #165

Here, even cited by a few Attorney Generals to letter to the FDA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #167

that is an after market product not sold by any manufacture of e-cigs krawhitham Mar 2014 #168

No, that is a product sold at the website of one purveyor of the product nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #171

You can use drinking straws and spoons to deliver cocaine frazzled Mar 2014 #10

That part drives me nuts too SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #150

I'd like to know how they're used for crack cocaine. Mariana Mar 2014 #12

Expert said they are transformed into a waxy oil nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #16

You still have to modify a standard ecig to make it compatible with that jberryhill Mar 2014 #36

Liquid meth might be more credible. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #56

It is a tobacco product Sgent Mar 2014 #17

Well, County Dept of Health cited WHO statistics nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #19

It is anecdotal Mariana Mar 2014 #34

They could do the studies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #37

It's the best way to stop, just ask the millions who have done so. The patch? Gave me Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #92

And a thinking person has to wonder just who it is behind the mis information. truedelphi Mar 2014 #125

I agree with the statement Sgent Mar 2014 #35

Those studies have been done under controlled conditions nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #38

They contain zero tobacco; thus, not a tobacco product. Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #69

Some contain Nicotine nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #73

That's like saying anything with caffeine is coffee. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #100

This is giving me a headache. Time to take an Excedrin coffee pill. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #108

Is nicotine gum a tobacco product? The patch? Tomatoes? Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #109

Nicotine gum is actually regulated by the Food and Drug Administration nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #153

Yes. But not as a tobacco product. Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #193

Before long, you will see it, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #200

It will be regulated as a nicotine product. To do otherwise would contribute to our increasing Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #210

Which is what I posted on the OP nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #213

Are the nicotine delivery systems of patches and gum regulated? Lex Mar 2014 #23

Yes, by FDA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #25

That's incorrect. Which is why you have no link. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #103

It does sound weird, and truedelphi Mar 2014 #121

Yay, more drug worrier horseshit. Used for weed and coke? Am I supposed to care? TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #26

Because it has nicotine many times, in fact it is sold as a nicotine delivery device, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #28

Do you have actual names of any of these people testifying? truedelphi Mar 2014 #127

Yes, actually, plenty of them, like 18 on tape nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #130

Look, hundreds of eminent scientiss decided that the state of Calif should regulate gasoline to truedelphi Mar 2014 #144

Well, this is somethign that is not limited to my corner of the country nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #148

What brings in the controversy is the conflation. truedelphi Mar 2014 #158

What conflation? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #161

"Oh and don't expect me to post the story here"... SidDithers Mar 2014 #43

Have you tried unpluggin' it and pluggin' it back in? Skeeter Barnes Mar 2014 #52

is there anything you don't know sad-cafe Mar 2014 #51

Judge Leon disagrees Ruby the Liberal Mar 2014 #53

Well the judge will be busy pounding down local policies across multiple states nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #55

Shrub. In 2001. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2014 #58

By the way that judge was appointed by Dubya nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #57

My son in law used to smoke 3 packs a day with E-Cigs he has been smoke free 10 months sad-cafe Mar 2014 #62

Here's a thought, why not study these things BEFORE trying to regulate it? Major Nikon Mar 2014 #82

Because according to staff they have enough information on them already nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #84

There is no information I've seen that suggests they are more harmful than coffee Major Nikon Mar 2014 #96

And perhaps the people who testified today nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #102

Drinking is also popular with some kids. Sissyk Mar 2014 #116

Most of the "juice" is just that, liquid Warpy Mar 2014 #83

Actually if yuo are referring to the THC, we have had a few explosions here nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #86

Part 1 Sgent Mar 2014 #95

Well you can go ask the FDA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #107

It sounds more like a bunch of bathtub chemists who are trying to make it work Warpy Mar 2014 #98

They have made it work nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #104

I'm all for banning the sale of highly addictive substances to minors, but... Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #87

According to the WHO, quitting is anecdotal nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #89

I'm not talking about quitting... Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #91

Well, if they are going to Vap, do it away from me nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #105

Too late pintobean Mar 2014 #120

. Brickbat Mar 2014 #166

St. Patrick's Day is coming up pintobean Mar 2014 #173

I agree. It seems to me that the way the "authorities" are getting these devices truedelphi Mar 2014 #123

You should inform these "experts" that e-cigarettes contain no tobacco... Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #99

But they have nicotine! Mariana Mar 2014 #113

It exists in thousands of plant species. Not to mention you can chemically isolate it... Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #135

Journalism, do you even? Brickbat Mar 2014 #119

^^^^^^^^ n/t truedelphi Mar 2014 #131

Were the decisions scientifically based? ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #129

They are starting actually nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #132

along with wind turbines pintobean Mar 2014 #142

My cousin's friend's coworker's collegue's uncle's sister said... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #145

You mean like the County Health Department? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #154

With actual scientific proof? SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #155

Well I guess the idiots at CDC and FDA and WHO, all cited nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #163

Oh, the CDC and WHO who say we need more studies SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #186

I am a reporter, I cover the news nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #189

Phillip Morris propaganda? SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #195

A little research might help nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #196

Oh gosh no.... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #203

What, big tobacco is now in the game nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #205

Er....apparently your head IS in the sand SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #209

Aparently you are into personal attacks, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #215

Nay, not at all... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #221

I'm not sure I follow the logic people are using. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #212

No, goes beyond that, but thanks for trying nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #216

So, the arguments they presented were: weed, crack and Angry Birds? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #218

Well the article will *not be posted here* nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #220

you don't know shit about me. kthxbai PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #222

I agree entirely! SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #227

I, too, have sat through several regulatory presentations cally Mar 2014 #157

Exactly. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #164

New study confirms that chemicals in electronic cigarettes pose minimal health risk krawhitham Mar 2014 #170

And in competing studies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #179

Also PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #181

Pretty flimsy evidence Major Nikon Mar 2014 #188

Fifty years from now I expect to have a few nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #191

It could just as easily go the other way Major Nikon Mar 2014 #214

It reminds me of the 1970s when big tobacco started it's rear guard battle nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #225

Did you see the mission statement of the site you linked to cally Mar 2014 #183

Longitudinal studies...I expect a repeat of those hearings nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #190

Fucking fear mongering. You can use soda cans, apples, butter or paper to "deliver THC". PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #169

And you can go argue with health officials nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #172

k PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #175

Oh and one last thing nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #174

neat! PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #176

Now hold on just a minute.... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #187

a little research krawhitham Mar 2014 #177

Yup. you are right nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #180

I am fine with the FDA regulating these fujiyama Mar 2014 #211

Well I know I have a pretty bad ashtma nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #226

Since personal attacks is all that is left here, self locked, with the content of the OP nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #228